At Casselview...

[Wilson-k28]

At Casselview a playing partner experienced his ball in bounds, but he couldn't swing because he was too close to a farmers fence. There were no white stakes to indicate out of bounds. With his ball on the course, but a hindrance which was not part of the course, I believe he gets free relief.
I've heard this ruling both ways _ some say take a drop with penalty, some say not to take a penalty stroke. I think not _ am I right?
kwm

[jonf]

I'm not sure about the situation, but perhaps he could have turned the club over and played the shot lefty (assuming he's right handed).

[Tanglegrip]

Seems to me the key question is whether the fence is part of the golf course. If it is, and it is a boundry, it should be white staked, therefore no relief. See #15 at Loch March in the Rules forum.
http://www.ottawagolf.com/forum/show...ght=LOch+March

If the fence is not part of the golf course, again no relief.

If it is part of the course and is not marked as out of bounds I believe it would be an immovable obstruction and your FC would be entitled to relief under Rule 24-2 b i.

Just my own opinion, Gary will have the right answer!

[Gary Hill]

First, the definition of an obstruction:

An “obstruction’’ is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured
ice, EXECPT:
a. Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings;
b. .....

It is not a requirement to have white stakes denote out of bounds. A farmers fence will do nicely.

The fence is NOT an obstruction. You get no free relief.
The fence is deemed to be fixed, so you can't "bend" it out of the way.

If the ball is so close to the fence that you can't hit it [¹] , you will have to proceed under Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable) and that is going to cost you a penalty stroke.

[¹] The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not be pushed, scraped or spooned.

[mkemila]

I am with you on your interpretation, but have one question......if you were to have your ball roll up to a white stake while staying within the playing area and found that the marker was obstructing your swing, would there be a relief? If I read the original question correctly the ball stayed inbounds (not passing the fence), would this then not fall under the definition of an obstruction. Had it passed the fence I would agree you totally on the lack of relief...found something

Rule 24 -- Obstructions

Obstructions are artificial or man-made objects. Bottles, tin cans, rakes, etc., are movable obstructions. Sprinkler heads, shelter houses, cart paths, etc., are Immovable obstructions.

Movable obstructions anywhere on the course may be removed. If the ball moves when moving an obstruction, it must be replaced without penalty.

You may drop your ball away from an immovable obstruction if it interferes with your swing or stance. Find the nearest point not nearer the hole where you can play without interference with your swing or stance. Drop the ball within one club-length of that point. (You may move your ball away from an immovable obstruction if it interferes with your swing or stance.) Note: You should not pick up the ball from an obstruction until you have established the nearest point of relief.

So I think until the ball crosses the fence that fence should be treated as an immovable obstruction and when it crosses the fence that the fence should be treated as an out of bounds marker. I could be wrong

First, the definition of an obstruction:

An “obstruction’’ is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured
ice, EXECPT:
a. Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings;
b. .....

It is not a requirement to have white stakes denote out of bounds. A farmers fence will do nicely.

The fence is NOT an obstruction. You get no free relief.
The fence is deemed to be fixed, so you can't "bend" it out of the way.

If the ball is so close to the fence that you can't hit it [¹] , you will have to proceed under Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable) and that is going to cost you a penalty stroke.

[¹] The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not be pushed, scraped or spooned.

[mkemila]

Sorry for droning in on but I found this as well

A ball is out of bounds when all of it lies beyond the inside line of objects such as white stakes, or a fence or wall that marks the playing area.

First, the definition of an obstruction:

An “obstruction’’ is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured
ice, EXECPT:
a. Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings;
b. .....

It is not a requirement to have white stakes denote out of bounds. A farmers fence will do nicely.

The fence is NOT an obstruction. You get no free relief.
The fence is deemed to be fixed, so you can't "bend" it out of the way.

If the ball is so close to the fence that you can't hit it [¹] , you will have to proceed under Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable) and that is going to cost you a penalty stroke.

[¹] The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not be pushed, scraped or spooned.

[el tigre]

I am with you on your interpretation, but have one question......if you were to have your ball roll up to a white stake while staying within the playing area and found that the marker was obstructing your swing, would there be a relief?

No. Objects defining out of bounds are specifically excluded from the defination of an obstruction. It is therefore irrelevant whether those objects are moveable or immoveable. It does not matter what the object is that is defining out of bounds - you still get no free relief from it.

[el tigre]

A ball is out of bounds when all of it lies beyond the inside line of objects such as white stakes, or a fence or wall that marks the playing area.

This is relevant in determing where you can play your ball from.

If it is found to be "out of bounds", you lose both stroke and distance regardless of whether there is an object interfering with your swing or not. If it is not "out of bounds", you can play it as it lies or declare an "unplayable lie" under Rule 28 and take a penalty stroke without losing the distance.

[mkemila]

I thought you could declare it unplayable and take a no penalty relief.....my bad In fact I just went to the USGA site and confirmed your conclusion.........I bow to the rule god
Try this one then.... If you were teeing off from the 11th tee box at the exact same time a train left Chicago, travelling 60 mph, on a Thursday, what would the conductors name be? got ya eh?

This is relevant in determing where you can play your ball from.

If it is found to be "out of bounds", you lose both stroke and distance regardless of whether there is an object interfering with your swing or not. If it is not "out of bounds", you can play it as it lies or declare an "unplayable lie" under Rule 28 and take a penalty stroke without losing the distance.

[el tigre]

I bow to the rule god

That would be Gary. I'm just a mere mortal who drops by and picks up his mail when he's away.

Try this one then.... If you were teeing off from the 11th tee box at the exact same time a train left Chicago, travelling 60 mph, on a Thursday, what would the conductors name be? got ya eh?

The conductor's name is Maestro.

[Deep Woods]

The conductor's name is Maestro.

Damn, he's good.

[Kilroy]

I thought you could declare it unplayable and take a no penalty relief.....

There is no such thing as free relief for an unplayable lie.
You can declare a ball unplayable anywhere, even in the middle of the fairway.

An immovable obstruction is a completely different scenario than an unplayable lie.

Options for unplayable lie (with one stroke penalty)

• drop within 2 club lengths no closer to the hole
• go as far back as you like on a line drawn through the flag and your ball (Not usefull if your ball is resting just inside OB, as that line would likely put you on the other side of the fence)
• return to previous position (stroke and distance)

[Gary Hill]

You can declare a ball unplayable anywhere, even in the middle of the fairway.

The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course except when the ball is in a water hazard.

[Kilroy]

Thanks Gary

[mkemila]

You looked at the back of the book, where the answers are!!

That would be Gary. I'm just a mere mortal who drops by and picks up his mail when he's away.

The conductor's name is Maestro.