Iron change, distance loss

[jjvoit]

Hey guys,

Maybe someone can help I am sure this is an equipment issue, I recently bought a set of mizuno mp-33's, I love the feel and hit them straight and well but short. i used to have wilson fat shaft 2's and my distances for example 9 iron was 135-145, 5 iron 190-200 off the tee. With the mizunos I am 120-125 with my 9 and 170-180 with my 5. I have DGS300 shafts in them. Everytime I hit the ball it fell crisp and looks great then comes crashing down short. Do I just have to get used to it, is the shaft, lie, loft creating less distance. I am still swinging the same. Any and all ideas would be appreciated. I am 6 feet tall shoot in the mid 80's and the clubs were bent 2 deg upright but the previous owner. I was in a custom shop the other day and the guy said changing the lies and lofts won't help, said they are more traditional lofts and they will go shorter.

JJ

[owenb]

Could be just getting used to them. I use fat shafts as well now...when I changed to them, I gained an average 20 yards per club. Taking the new set to be fit may not hurt if you want to make sure it isn't the clubs costing you distance and to make sure they are set for your height. I did mine cause at 6'3" they have to be adjusted a bit...good luck !

[el tigre]

Hey guys,

Maybe someone can help I am sure this is an equipment issue, I recently bought a set of mizuno mp-33's, I love the feel and hit them straight and well but short. i used to have wilson fat shaft 2's and my distances for example 9 iron was 135-145, 5 iron 190-200 off the tee. With the mizunos I am 120-125 with my 9 and 170-180 with my 5.... I was in a custom shop the other day and the guy said changing the lies and lofts won't help, said they are more traditional lofts and they will go shorter.

The guy in the custom shop was right - the Mizuno's are more traditional lofts. You can check out clubs specs at this website:

http://www.equip2golf.com/

The differences are most noticeable in the short irons and wedges. The long irons are about the same. Your Wilson 9i had a loft of 41* vs 44* for the Mizuno. The Wilson PW is 45* vs 48* for the Mizuno, i.e., the loft on your Wilson PW is about the same as the Mizuno 9 iron.

The Mizuno's are targeted at low-handicappers who don't really need added distance with the short irons, but would like more workability. With your numbers I think you're in the target audience. If you like the clubs I wouldn't sweat it - just adjust your distances accordingly.

[Andru]

Hey guys,

Maybe someone can help I am sure this is an equipment issue, I recently bought a set of mizuno mp-33's, I love the feel and hit them straight and well but short. i used to have wilson fat shaft 2's and my distances for example 9 iron was 135-145, 5 iron 190-200 off the tee. With the mizunos I am 120-125 with my 9 and 170-180 with my 5. I have DGS300 shafts in them. Everytime I hit the ball it fell crisp and looks great then comes crashing down short. Do I just have to get used to it, is the shaft, lie, loft creating less distance. I am still swinging the same. Any and all ideas would be appreciated. I am 6 feet tall shoot in the mid 80's and the clubs were bent 2 deg upright but the previous owner. I was in a custom shop the other day and the guy said changing the lies and lofts won't help, said they are more traditional lofts and they will go shorter.

JJ

One word. Lofts. Check the specs.

[jjvoit]

I couldn't find the wilson loft specs, figured it would be the lofts but I'm not as experienced as you guys at this. Would it be worth it to get the lofts changed if I want a bit more distance with my higher clubs. I did notice the 2 iron I have no trouble getting the distance I want. Mainly looking at the 7-pw.

One word. Lofts. Check the specs.

[Andru]

I couldn't find the wilson loft specs, figured it would be the lofts but I'm not as experienced as you guys at this. Would it be worth it to get the lofts changed if I want a bit more distance with my higher clubs. I did notice the 2 iron I have no trouble getting the distance I want. Mainly looking at the 7-pw.

That's up to you. I wouldn't do it. It's realy just and ego thing unless you have a yardage gap you need to fill.

[el tigre]

Manufacturer: Wilson Staff Model: Fat Shaft Year: 2000
Iron	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	PW	GW	SW	LW
Loft(°)	16	18	21	24	27	30	33	37	41	45	50	55	60
Lie(°)	58	59	60	61	62	62.5	63	64	64.5	65	65	65	65
Length(")1	40.5	40	39.5	39	38.5	38	37.5	37	36.5	36	36	36	36
Notes: 1 Graphite lengths given. Shaft is Wilson Fat Shaft graphite. Graphite shaft is the Wilson Hyper Carbon featuring a .535" shaft tip diameter. Steel shaft is the Wilson Platinum Steel featuring a .500" shaft tip diameter.

[el tigre]

Manufacturer: Mizuno Model: MP-33 Year: 2000
Iron	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	PW
Loft(°)	16	19	22	25	28	32	36	40	44	48
Lie(°)	57	57.5	58	58.5	59	60	61	62	62.5	63
Length(")1	39.75	39.25	38.75	38.25	37.75	37.25	36.75	36.25	35.75	35.25
Notes: 1 Flat or upright lies available. 2 Length noted is for steel shafts. Standard shaft is True Temper Dynamic Gold steel. Standard grip is Golf Pride Tour Velvet.

[BC MIST]

From the charts the length of the Fat Shafts is .75" longer than the Mizuno's. While not a huge factor in the distance loss, it would account for some of it.

If the Fat Shafts are graphite, then theoretically, the lighter weighted club will project the ball farther than the steel shafted club.

[el tigre]

From the charts the length of the Fat Shafts is .75" longer than the Mizuno's. While not a huge factor in the distance loss, it would account for some of it.

Good point. The charts list the graphite lengths for the Fat Shafts and the steel lengths for the Mizunos, because that is the standard shaft for each set. If jjvoit had steel shafts in the Wilsons though, they would probably be the same length as the Mizunos.

[jjvoit]

They were steel shafts. I went to the range and hit some more and actually the nice thing is that even though they are shorter I don't seem to get that extra bit of surprise distance that I always got from the fat shafts. Of course now I will probably get a surprise short shot here and there.

Good point. The charts list the graphite lengths for the Fat Shafts and the steel lengths for the Mizunos, because that is the standard shaft for each set. If jjvoit had steel shafts in the Wilsons though, they would probably be the same length as the Mizunos.

[LobWedge]

You also need to factor in the "effective hitting area" (more incorrectly known as the "sweet spot") on the faces of your irons. Your MP-33's have a "sweet" area about the size of a dime. The zone on the Fat Shaft 2's is about the size of a loonie with a little bit of extra room on the sides. In the world of fractions of an inch, this is a huge difference.

That combined with the lower/shallower centre of gravity on the Mizuno's is going to mean a lower, flatter tragectory with less backspin.

My recommendation to you would be to give the DG-R300's at try. It should give you a better feel and a slightly higher launch angle. Nice clubs.

[jjvoit]

I'm curious why you would recommend regular flex shafts? Would I get more distance out of them?

You also need to factor in the "effective hitting area" (more incorrectly known as the "sweet spot") on the faces of your irons. Your MP-33's have a "sweet" area about the size of a dime. The zone on the Fat Shaft 2's is about the size of a loonie with a little bit of extra room on the sides. In the world of fractions of an inch, this is a huge difference.

That combined with the lower/shallower centre of gravity on the Mizuno's is going to mean a lower, flatter tragectory with less backspin.

My recommendation to you would be to give the DG-R300's at try. It should give you a better feel and a slightly higher launch angle. Nice clubs.

[LobWedge]

I'm curious why you would recommend regular flex shafts? Would I get more distance out of them?

It's mainly a feel thing. As I said before, you'll probably get a bit more distance from a slightly higher launch angle and a bit more shot correction on your off centre hits. In the world of DG iron shafts the flex difference isn't huge but, in my experience, the blades will feel a little softer and a bit more forgiving.

[BC MIST]

I'm curious why you would recommend regular flex shafts? Would I get more distance out of them?

The difference in weight betwen an R300 and an S300 is 8 grams and the torque of the former is 1.8 while for the latter is 1.66. The recommended minimum swing speeds for the R300 is 77 mph, and for the S300, 83 mph.

The S may feel a little harsher, but there really is not much difference between the 2. As the Mizunos have a higher center of gravity the trajectory will be lower. Conversely, the Fat Shafts have more weight at the bottom of the club head, therefore the trajectory should be higher, however, the different kind of shaft may change that somewhat.

The so called "sweet spot" or center of percussion, is infinitely small, regardless of the structure of the club head. Where a cavity back club really helps is when the golfer hits the ball off the heel as do most outside in swingers. With a longer head, heel hits cause the toe to rotate the club face a little more closed.

Where I doubt the value of a cavity occurs when the ball hits the toe of the club. If it is true that Torque = Force X length of lever arm, then toe hits should twist the face a little open, resulting in a pushed shot. Perhaps the most significant factor in negating the pushed shot from toe hits is the size of the tip diameter, torque of the shaft, and the insertion depth of the shaft in the hosel. The Fat Shafts are .400" in diameter, creating increased stability of toe hits. A very low torque iron shaft, like the S300's will also reduce the twisting open of the face, and insertion depth of greater than the standard 1" will do the same.

A reason that the Titleist drivers are more accurate than many is that the shaft is inserted a full 3" into the head. Some Taylor drivers are performing well because they have a .350" tip diameter or more.

A golfer needs a stiffer shaft if he has a high rate of acceleration from the top of the swing, ala Sergio Garcia. If the golfer almosts stops at the top, then a more "regular" shaft is better to load the shaft, even though both golfers may get to the ball at the same swing speed. A softer shaft may square up a little faster than a stiffer one, so if the tendency is to hook, go stiffer. The actual difference in swing speed between an R and an S is almost negligible. My own experiment with an R, an S and X UST Proforce 65 wood shafts showed 0 difference in swing speed.

"It is not how fast you swing, but how you swing fast," that is important when selecting a stiffness for your shafts.

[disenor]

HI there, what you are experiencing is caused by the difference in lofts between your two sets. I noticed the same thing between my 731PM and my 690.MB. If you check the lofts from the previous spec. posting you will see that there is a 3 degree difference between the lofts. Being that 1 degree of loft is equal to 4-5 yards depending on your swing speed this would account for you loss in yardage. You probably have noticed a higher ball flight with the blades as well. If you do decide to have the lofts adjusted you may want to send them back to mizuno, they will probably give you a break on the price, I know ping does. As for the lie angle, the next time you are at the range or on the course take a look at your divets, if the divet is deeper at the toe than the heel they are not upright enough and if they are deeper in the heel they are too upright. Remember don't adjust your swing to the clubs have the clubs adjusted to your swing. Have fun

[jjvoit]

I'm not sure why but so far the best club in this set is my 2 iron I hit it about 230-240 and straight as ever. I had a 2 iron in my fat shafts and could not hit it at all, never. The reason I want a little more distance is that I want to hit my shorter irons in that 150 and under range. I want to hit an 8 or higher at the most. right now I hit a 7 with these. Which I guess is fine, it's just a comfort level thing. When I strike the ball with these irons they feel awesome. I don't care if I hit my 9 150, but I would like to hit it 130-135ish. So I may get the lofts changed a bit. This isn't a macho thing as far as distance goes just want that shorter club out there for what is usually the majority of my shots in that 140-155 range. Thanks for everyones help, not sure if I am going to get the lofts changed or not but this has helped.

JJ

HI there, what you are experiencing is caused by the difference in lofts between your two sets. I noticed the same thing between my 731PM and my 690.MB. If you check the lofts from the previous spec. posting you will see that there is a 3 degree difference between the lofts. Being that 1 degree of loft is equal to 4-5 yards depending on your swing speed this would account for you loss in yardage. You probably have noticed a higher ball flight with the blades as well. If you do decide to have the lofts adjusted you may want to send them back to mizuno, they will probably give you a break on the price, I know ping does. As for the lie angle, the next time you are at the range or on the course take a look at your divets, if the divet is deeper at the toe than the heel they are not upright enough and if they are deeper in the heel they are too upright. Remember don't adjust your swing to the clubs have the clubs adjusted to your swing. Have fun