Forged Irons Recommendation: KZG vs Wishon vs Mizuno?

[Tsuioku]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a beginner looking to purchase a budget set of used forged irons (250USD Max shipped). I tried out my friend's Mizuno MP60s and love the feel of them but then... I don't have much experience (nor the cash). Blades vs Cavity Backs don't matter to me since I always continue with any sport I take up and always up for a challenge. What I'm hoping for is a set that I can stick with as my game improves.

Currently looking at KZG ZOs or Blades due to great reviews and low resale value. For those that have tried the two, how do the ZOs, Blades and MP60s (my reference) compare with each other in regards to forgiveness and performance? Also considering a set Wishon 555C/M but haven't been able to find a set. How do they compare with the KZGs?

Anybody have any other recommendations? I'm sure many will recommend the Evolutions. While I'd love a set, they tend to have a higher value and most people don't ship to Canada.

In short, I'm looking for the best bang for the buck that will also last. Thanks in advance.

[mpare]

There are many good blades. The Cobra Pro Forged CB, which I own, and the Pro Forged MB, which my brother owns, are fantastic. They look good, feel good and perform. There are many who will claim that the blade makes little difference. It's the shaft that counts. That's true to a certain extent. Get the wrong shaft and it won't matter what kind of clubhead your using. You will not be happy, and your performance will not be optimized. On the other hand, ideal (for you) shafts affixed to poor clubheads will be wasted. In short, make sure to match the two.

Good luck, and enjoy the game of a lifetime.

[sillywilly]

if you are a beginer why would you want to start with blades? golf is hard enough already

[The Saint]

if you are a beginer why would you want to start with blades? golf is hard enough already

Good point..

[jvincent]

If you are looking at the Wishon line, a 555M/C mixed set is a good option. If you want to stay in forged, the 560MC is also very nice.

A comment on Mizuno, while they are very pretty clubs, I have heard multiple times now (other forums and from a well respected local club fitter) that their specs for weight, loft, lie can be all over the map so if you go that route you will need to get them checked.

[sillywilly]

If you are looking at the Wishon line, a 555M/C mixed set is a good option. If you want to stay in forged, the 560MC is also very nice.

A comment on Mizuno, while they are very pretty clubs, I have heard multiple times now (other forums and from a well respected local club fitter) that their specs for weight, loft, lie can be all over the map so if you go that route you will need to get them checked.

thats why I hate OEM

[BG458]

Look at the Nike Pro Forged combo you get some blade and some cavities and some in the middle in my opinion one of the best sets I have put my hands on.

[goochy]

I can't speak for the KZG ZO's but I have a set of KZG CBIII's which are forged cavity backs and I cannot speak highly enough of them.

Don at Artisan Golf made them for me...he carries all the KZG lines...why don't you swing over and see him and hit a few and try them out. Even if you plan to buy used I'm sure he could offer his advice

[jvincent]

It's a long trek from Vancouver to Don's place for Tsuiko.

[goochy]

It's a long trek from Vancouver to Don's place for Tsuiko.

lol...sorry Tsuiko.

[sillywilly]

goochy, how was your set?

[Tsuioku]

if you are a beginer why would you want to start with blades? golf is hard enough already

Like a wise forum member once said... "20 yrs ago, there were no cavity backs. Everyone learned with blades. Why can't you?"
Completely forgot where/who said that but stuck out to me.

One of the reasons I'm not really looking into GI irons is that I don't think I'll be able to afford another set for a while since I still have to pay back my student loans... getting the set as a grad gift for myself =) Nothing against CBs... just that I'm looking for a player's iron for the long-term.

Since I don't get discouraged easily and am somewhat analytical, I find that I learn faster by using more "advanced" equipment in general so my aim is somewhat two-fold. Has worked quite well for me in billiards, badminton, tennis and bowling so far...

[Chieflongtee]

Are you still playing tennis with a wooden racquet? Are Golf pros still using 200cc drivers with heavier stel shafts? Aren't today's blades bigger than what they used to be? Food for thought.

[jvincent]

As somebody who got better by playing blades after playing cavities for a long time, I have to agree with your approach.

I'm not 100% clear on what you are looking for at this point. Do you want a really budget set of blades to get you started, or something else?

The thing to remember with forged clubs is that they get dinged up. My backup set, Wishon 550Ms, has about 4 seasons of play in them and they have a bunch of nicks and dings on the sole. They don't affect the playability at all but cosmetically, they aren't "perfect".

If I were in your shoes, I'd pick up a bargain set of used blades on decent shafts and play those for a few years. Once you've developed some skill, trade up or buy a new set.

[Tsuioku]

Actually... I still play w a wooden tennis racket... lol...
The key word in that quote is "learn"

I have nothing against any sort of equipment. More and more CBs are appearing in the Player's Irons category.
Issue though is that golf equipment is expensive.

Just trying to get something that I can continue to improve on for the next 5-10yrs and still within my budget.

I'm not 100% clear on what you are looking for at this point. Do you want a really budget set of blades to get you started, or something else?

The thing to remember with forged clubs is that they get dinged up. My backup set, Wishon 550Ms, has about 4 seasons of play in them and they have a bunch of nicks and dings on the sole. They don't affect the playability at all but cosmetically, they aren't "perfect".

I'm looking for a budget set of forged irons... Player's Irons heavily preferred so that I can continue to improve my game 10yrs down the road
Topic just got off track since the two KZG models I mentioned are blades. People started recommending that I get GI Cavities and then I went on explaining that blades are still good.

In regards to dinging... I plan on grabbing iron covers or at least separating them with an old scarf.

[jeffc]

actually, clubs are cheap - great sets for $300-$400. Lots of great deals on used clubs on here, ebay, or elsewhere. Retails is for suckers.

[Chieflongtee]

I strongly recommend getting CB but I can't twist your arm. It does not mean you are going to learn faster with either. A blade hit in the sweet spot will be just as pure as a CB. The forgiveness happens when the ball is struck off center or fat or skulled. You can get away with all that in tennis.After all that has been said and if on a budget get a used set. You won't break the bank and when you are rich and famous then you can go for the high end set.


Take a look:
http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthread.php?t=44841

http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthread.php?t=45413

[jvincent]

I'm not talking about dings that you'll get from the clubs banging together. I'm talking about rocks in the fairway, etc.

My advice to you would be to pick up a set of Wishon 705W2 irons. They are mid-size (barely) progressive cavity cast club. I moved to these from my 550Ms and to be honest there is no difference in feel. Shaft them up with some FST Pro 115/125 and you'll have a first rate set of clubs for a fraction of what a forged set would cost.

[Tsuioku]

I strongly recommend getting CB but I can't twist your arm. It does not mean you are going to learn faster with either.

Hmm.... I guess I should clarify things a bit more.
Discussion of this thread is for
1. Used Forged (Players) Irons that can be purchased for 250USD ~ 275CDN shipped
2. A comparison of KZG vs Wishon vs Mizuno (my reference) in regards to forgiveness and performance.
My main Candidates are KZG ZO/Blades/Evolution and Wishon 550/555 Cavity/Muscle Combos. I have access to my friend's MP60s which will be my reference.
3. Any other recommendations that I should look at.

Also... CAVITIES ARE OK!
The KZG Evolution and Wishon 555C/M sets I mentioned in the opening post are both Cavity/Blade combos. Might have been unlegible due to the formatting. It's now fixed.

I'm not talking about dings that you'll get from the clubs banging together. I'm talking about rocks in the fairway, etc.

Oh... my mistake. Never really thought of that. But I like the feel of forged... Evaluate before swinging? I just play with some friends so we can tweak the rules a little =)

[justsomeguy]

Learn to walk before you run. As a beginner you will get a lot more enjoyment out of the game with a forgiving set of cavity-backs. I wouldn't get too hung up in the forged vs cast thing - I've had very good sets of both. Iron technology has not changed that much recently, so with your budget you can get some great designs from 5-10 years ago that are great clubs.

If you are really determined to buy forged, there are a lot of very nice forged CB's out there in your price range. In the Mizuno line there are the MX19's and MX25's, MacGregor has the M685 and older 1025C/M models (these could also be made as a combo set), and Nike has the Pro Combo & Pro Combo OS models.

On the component side, I've owned both KZG and Wishon forged irons and they are both excellent. I currently play the Wishon 560MC's, and before them I had the KZG CBIIM's and it was really tough to choose between them. Another option to look at on the component side is the Maltby irons from Golfworks - the old M-05's were very nice clubs and very affordable.

[mcgoo]

I know all the guys that have posted here and they are all very good golfers; and they all agree. I started six years ago with blades and then forged mussel backs; it was a disaster. Wasted two seasons, only began to play okay when I got cavity backs.

[mikec222]

Go with the kzg evolution. They are plenty forgiving and you still get the sweet feel of forged.

I'm a 4 handicap and I don't find them too big, just perfect, leave the pure blades for the pros.

The zo blades are nice but they have no offset and would give you a way too low trajectory as a beginner. Stats say that there is a very small chance you will ever be good enough to use them effectivly.

I would reccomend a gi iron but it doesn't look like you are going to be swayed, so atleast give yourself a chance. I got my set for 400 like new, and that was a few years ago, they are cheaper now.

Evo's fit a wide range of golfers. Be patient a set will come up on ebay in the next couple of weeks. Almost all sellers will ship to canada unless it says in their auction they specifically will not ship there.

Infact wasn't your friend selling his half set silly willy?

[Tsuioku]

Thank you everyone for your feedback.

I'm leaning more and more towards a Progressive or Cavity/Muscle Combo set now.
Cavity for the forgiveness in the long irons and Muscle for the control/feedback in the short irons. Still in the forged mindset though =P

Other than the Evolution and the 55x C/M sets... Does anybody know of other forged progressive/combo sets that I should keep an eye out for that is still within my budget (~275CDN Shipped)?
The Bridgestone J33 Combo (can't afford the J36 Combo) and Macgregor MT Pro M/C sets sound like potential candidates but reading mixed reviews. I also hear Titleist 735CM are only half forged... long irons being stainless steel.

The dual compound design of the M685 does sound interesting though and with its lower price, I may grab a set if I can't find anything/get impatient.

PS sillywilly already contacted me =P

[mikec222]

There's a set on ebay now for 132 20 hours left

[Tsuioku]

Already have it bookmarked =) Prefer steel shafts but graphite is ok. Just hope the price doesn't blow up.

Also see a Mizuno mixed MP57/67 but worried that the PX 6.5 would be too stiff for me.

[Chanter]

Very interesting article here from a very reliable source re: Forged vs Cast

http://golf.about.com/od/faqs/f/cast_forged.htm

[Tsuioku]

Very interesting article here from a very reliable source re: Forged vs Cast

http://golf.about.com/od/faqs/f/cast_forged.htm

Yea... I read that article previously... and some of his other FAQs. For those that don't know/haven't guessed who the source is... it's Tom Wishon!

Guess I'm in the 1%... j/k... the finish/craftsmanship of forged is also something I admire. Ease of tweaking/customizing in the future (even though I don't foresee it happening anytime soon) is another pro.

There are also claims of the quality/uniformity of the materials/construction used between cast and forged. Notice that the grade of the steel used in cast is often not stated while in forged, it almost always is.

On the other hand, some forgings also sort of "cheat" in the material used. Most people equate "forged" = "carbon steel" but if you look closely at specs, some forgings use 8620 steel which is actually an Alloy Steel (Nickel Chromium Steel to be more exact). There is still carbon in its composition... but not a Carbon Steel.

[sillywilly]

whats up man, i sent you a PM. are you interested? Shall I email you the pictures?

[mikec222]

If you want to buy those kzg evos with the graphite shafts in them, I'll swap the shafts for 40 bucks if you buy some steel ones, you can get pulls for pretty cheap.

[Tsuioku]

Lol... too bad we're on opposite coasts. See how much it goes for first.

Also have someone offering me a set of Macgregor MT Pro C/M 4-PW + MT DW 52* + Miz MP-R 60* for ~230CAD shipped which is rather tempting. What bugs me though... is that I'm seeing a lot of MT Pros for sale these days. Are they that hard to hit with?