Kronwall hit on Havlat

[Slammin' Stever]

Have the rules in hockey changed?..I watched this hit that Kronwall put on Havlat. Not only did he put his shoulder pad under Havlat's chin, he left his feet at least six inches. When you leap up off your feet to check a player that is considered charging...period. It might look nice to watch but it is just as dirty as a slash to the ankle or a cross check to the neck. Many players careers have been ended by these seemingly (opp's..who me.. I didn't do anything)so called innocent check.


Kronwall has a history of leaving his feet so he just got what was coming..to bad it wasn't more.

[Hacker]

The NHL will always support the refs. I would expect them to back them up on this. With respect to the refs, ya, they gotta know what they are doing. Not one of them put their arm up when the play happened. Only after Havlat was lying on the ground did they deem it a penalty. So much for you theory about the slow mo. The refs never caught it at normal speed either.

Please take the time to read and comprehend what I actually wrote before disagreeing with it - my comments about slow motion replay were clearly directed at the commentators and not the refs.

As for the no arm up comment, how much real time elapsed between the hit and all hell breaking out on the ice?? The refs obviously had other things to do at the time. Besides, a ref can "intend" to blow his whistle and that is the same as actually blowing it, is it too big a leap for a ref to "intend" to put his arm up or "intend" to call a penalty?? Me thinks not.

Anyway, Kronwall has a history of dirty hits so that has to factor into the call. How many calls has a Rutuu or a Domi or a Avery had go against them just because of who they are........live by the sword die by the sword

[Indio]

Mr. Know it all himself (Don Cherry) says the ref got it right so it has to be the wrong call! Don McLane says the rule books says the player MUST TOUCH the puck for him to have possession.... in his skates is not possession.....

[justsomeguy]

As experts, the commentators are in a much better position than most of us to make a judgement. They are also in a much better position to do so than the NHL, who will go to extremes to come up with a rationalization for a bad penalty, rather than admit that, potentially, one of their officials made an error.

They are watching it on tape - same as all of us. They are in no better or worse position than we are. The only people in a better position to make a call than most of us are the people on the ice, and 90% of them have a biased opinion that can't be trusted.

And like it or not, the NHL makes the rules for their league and has deemed that the evaluations of their employees are a private matter. It is no different in any other sport. I've noticed that you really seem to have a problem with referees Jon, and all I can say is that you should try putting on the stripes sometime. It will give you a whole new perspective on them.

Not one of them put their arm up when the play happened. Only after Havlat was lying on the ground did they deem it a penalty.

Strictly speaking, raising your arm signals a delayed penalty - although most referees do it automatically on a penalty call just out of habit. The whistle blew within seconds of the play (which is normal when a player is seriously injured), so there was no delay. If play had continued for 10 seconds afterward with Detroit in possession of the puck, then you would have a valid argument. But that wasn't the case here.

[jonf]

I don't have a problem with refs at all. I just have a problem with them making bad calls. Sure, they have a difficult job, but does that mean they shouldn't be scrutinized, or held to high standards? I expect people to do a good job, and accept criticism if they don't. If a politician wastes money, I will criticize them. If an executive runs a multi billion dollar company down the tubes, I will criticize them. I don't understand this implication that, since someone has difficult job, we have to go easy on them when they screw up. I understand that mistakes happen, but you have to be accountable for your mistakes, whether you're flipping burgers, calling penalties, or writing laws.

[justsomeguy]

I don't understand this implication that, since someone has difficult job, we have to go easy on them when they screw up. I understand that mistakes happen, but you have to be accountable for your mistakes, whether you're flipping burgers, calling penalties, or writing laws.

There is no such implication being made. Referees are not accountable TO YOU - or to any other fans either. The crazies in the stands have no clue what a referee's mistake even looks like - yet strangely they have all self-appointed themselves as an expert on officiating! There is rarely consensus among fans and player's on a referee's decisions - nor should it be sought after or expected.

Jon, I might watch you every day at your workplace, but does that mean I get to evaluate your performance and/or make decisions about your employment? Of course not. You don't work for me, and you're not accountable to me. That's the way it is and the way it should be.

Referees are accountable to the Director of Officiating or Head Referee, who reports to the league. The Director of Officiating is almost always a current or former referee, who knows the difference between a referee's mistake and an unpopular decision. Fans and players have no clue. The guidelines for the job are ultimately decided by the Director of Officiating and the league, and THEY determine whether a referee is doing a good job or not. That determination has absolutely nothing to do with making the fans happy, and it is a private matter - just like your performance evaluation is at your workplace.

[Chambokl]

Strictly speaking, raising your arm signals a delayed penalty - although most referees do it automatically on a penalty call just out of habit. The whistle blew within seconds of the play (which is normal when a player is seriously injured), so there was no delay. If play had continued for 10 seconds afterward with Detroit in possession of the puck, then you would have a valid argument. But that wasn't the case here.[/quote]


No, you are wrong. Ville Leino (Red Wings) has the puck for a few seconds and is waiting for a whistle... the whistle only comes after Byfuglien goes to hit Kronwall... So NO arms went up, possessions by the Wings and no whistle .... that means NO penalty called.

If you listen to the commentator he clearly said: "The play continued on and neither officials had their arm up".

[jonf]

There is no such implication being made. Referees are not accountable TO YOU - or to any other fans either. The crazies in the stands have no clue what a referee's mistake even looks like - yet strangely they have all self-appointed themselves as an expert on officiating! There is rarely consensus among fans and player's on a referee's decisions - nor should it be sought after or expected.

Jon, I might watch you every day at your workplace, but does that mean I get to evaluate your performance and/or make decisions about your employment? Of course not. You don't work for me, and you're not accountable to me. That's the way it is and the way it should be.

Referees are accountable to the Director of Officiating or Head Referee, who reports to the league. The Director of Officiating is almost always a current or former referee, who knows the difference between a referee's mistake and an unpopular decision. Fans and players have no clue. The guidelines for the job are ultimately decided by the Director of Officiating and the league, and THEY determine whether a referee is doing a good job or not. That determination has absolutely nothing to do with making the fans happy, and it is a private matter - just like your performance evaluation is at your workplace.

I didn't say that I should have any say in decisions about the guy's job. But, public opinion in general could well hold some influence. It's no different from complaining to the manager at a store when you get horrible customer service. A client who is dissatisfied with the service of a car salesman can't fire him, but he can make his complaints known for the company to consider at evaluation time. Likewise with the refs. The fact is, the NHL exists to make money off of fans. We are their customers. While we don't get to make decisions, our opinions will be taken into account by the NHL. As the people who buy the tickets, jerseys, and cable packages that keep the league in existence, the NHL has an interest in keeping us happy. Disciplinary measures may well be undertaken behind closed doors, but that does not mean they are not influenced by controversy and public opinion.