Ruling need @ CedarHill - Out of Bounds

[Malone]

I was playing yesterday on the Slammer Tour, and yes I hit a bad shot...I was on the 6th hole and hit over to the 7th tee blocks. Beside the blue and white tee decks there is saftey nets, about 4 feet high and 10 feet long to prevent someone slicing into the house beside.

The two saftey nets don't connect, so my ball went between them, beyond the virtual line that would be created but my ball stayed before a bunch of trees where beyond was the backyard of a house.

One player said I was out of bounds, but there were no white stakes and i don't believe these to be property line fences since they are there to obviously stop balls and are so small and dont continue down the hole.

Again, my ball was beyond the virtual line of the saftey net, but before the tree line. The CedarHill score card states, "Out of bounds is defined by White Stakes and boundary fences"

Help please!

[Kilroy]

Hard to be sure from your description and I haven't played there in many years.

If the fence was on the right of the 7th hole between the course and the houses then I would think it's a boundary fence. That would make whatever is beyond it out of bounds. If the fence is between the 6th green and the 7th tee then it's just a protective screen and therefore an immovable obstruction, and not out of bounds beyond it.

You could call the course and ask them the status of the fence, but from your description, and without seeing it myself, it sounds like you may well have been OB.

[Malone]

The course is soo poorley marked that I don't think they have any boundary fences...lots of backyards just go right on to the course.

The safety net is right up against the tee decks (on them pretty much) with space between them and the trees, and then the backyard

[gbower]

Unless the stakes or white line are there and nothing in the local rules is written to define that netting as out of bounds I wouldn't call your ball out. Did you check with the pro or someone in the proshop as they should know.

[Malone]

Assistant Pro said it is ineed saftey netting and thats the purpose, but didn't know if it is OB beyond it.

I have a call in to the head pro.

We will see, but I think you're right, Safety netting isn't OB unless it's marked with stakes or white line, or its printed on the scorecard

[Kilroy]

I'm having dificulty picturing how a 4 foot high and 10 foot long fence could provide any protection from a ball sliced off the tee.

If it is that close to the tees and there is course property beyond it doesn't sound like a boundary fence either.

Strange one.

[Swerve]

Its not a fence, its a net. I would say, by your description, that your ball was inbounds and playable. I would also venture a guess that if the net was impedding your shot you would get a free drop? agree/disagree?

[Kilroy]

If it's in bounds (not defining a boundary) and it interferes with your stance or swing, you'd get relief.

If it's blocking your target line, but not interfering with your stance or swing, then no relief.

[justsomeguy]

The course is soo poorley marked that I don't think they have any boundary fences...lots of backyards just go right on to the course.

The safety net is right up against the tee decks (on them pretty much) with space between them and the trees, and then the backyard

In the absence of proper markings, you have to go back to the definition of OB:

Out of Bounds
"Out of bounds" is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course so marked by the Committee.

So the first question is: Were you on the golf course's property or the homeowner's property? If the "bunch of trees" you described was a hedge, I'm inclined to believe that it defines the property line and therefore you were on the golf course's property. But only the golf course knows for sure...

...but even if you were still on the golf course's property, the second part of the definition could still put you OB. That's why you still need to find out if the safety netting is "an object defining out of bounds" or not.

[LobWedge]

Malone, is this the area (blue circle) you're talking about?

The yellow lines are where I think the fences are.

[Malone]

Cedarhill.jpg

More like this...Ball is in between the trees...and line of scrimage those two small safety net's would create.

Now...i' have receive word from the pro there they he thinks they are there for boundary, but again he's not sure... I don't think the committee should be taking word of a uncertain pro!

I would like at the rest of the hole, and use the tree line as the OB Personally.

[g8r]

how did you proceed? did you play 2 balls? and will this hole affect the outcome of the match?

[LobWedge]

how did you proceed? did you play 2 balls? and will this hole affect the outcome of the match?

Rule 3-3 doesn't apply in Match Play, see Rule 2-5.

[Kiwi battler]

A country course near where I live , has NO OOB on the left of the first hole , they can get away with it because theres a HUGE paddock beside that hole , a row of trees the entire length of the hole on the left would form a natural boundary , but as its not defined as such you can go 2 km's left off the tee if you want.

Sounds a little like the same at your course , sloppy committee need to do their job ...playing out of someones back yard might force the issue lol

[justsomeguy]

A country course near where I live , has NO OOB on the left of the first hole , they can get away with it because theres a HUGE paddock beside that hole , a row of trees the entire length of the hole on the left would form a natural boundary , but as its not defined as such you can go 2 km's left off the tee if you want.

No you can't. As per the OB definition I posted above, if you are beyond the boundaries of the course then you are OB. There is no mandatory requirement for OB to be marked.

[Kiwi battler]

you cant be OOB if there is no boundary marked or defined

[justsomeguy]

you cant be OOB if there is no boundary marked or defined

OB is defined in the Rules:

Out of Bounds
"Out of bounds" is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course so marked by the Committee.

If you're no longer on the course, then you're OB - period.

Yes I agree that it would be helpful if the Committee put white stakes and/or boundary fences along the entire property line so that everyone would know at a glance exactly where the boundaries of the course were. But the fact that they failed to do so does not mean that OB does not exist - it just makes it more difficult for us to figure out exactly where it starts.

[Kiwi battler]

If the course has no boundary , neither marked or defined by the committee , how do you determine if your ball is out of bounds or not ? you cant .....therefore the ball must be in bounds

Its not the courses job to define its own boundaries...

While it is probably quite rare , although I can think of 3 areas on my own course that arent clearly defined , or at all , the country course I mentioned is on army land ...and they have plenty of it..

You can go a mile sideways and still not be OOB ...your card would only be good for starting a fire though lol

[jonf]

I think what he's saying is that the property line, whether marked or not, is there. Anything beyond golf course property is OB, regardless of whether or not it is marked.

[Kiwi battler]

Do the rules of golf recognise property lines ? ...

[justsomeguy]

Do the rules of golf recognise property lines ? ...

Yes they do. They call them "the boundaries of the course".

I have yet to see a golf course without boundaries. I suppose if your golf course property took up an entire island, then you could conceivably have no OB as any ball hit off the island could be declared in a water hazard rather than OB. That's the only example I could think of on this planet!

[Kilroy]

Backyards are definately off the course property and OB with or without white stakes. Common sense must prevail in the absence of boundary markers. It should not be hard to determine the course boundary.

As justsomeguy already quoted

Out of Bounds
"Out of bounds" is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course so marked by the Committee.

[Kiwi battler]

Its the committees job to define the bounderies ....in a perfect world common sense shouldnt need to come into the equation

On the outskirts of Christchurch New Zealand , is an army base , Burnham ....the golf course has an ammo dump inside the middle of it , fenced of course , and OOB ...on the left of hole #1 and #2 there is NO OOB ...theres no advantage to be gained by going 10 km's sideways on the way down the par 5 so no need to have a boundary

Probably the safest way if in doubt is to use rule 3.3 ......this will also help push the committee into doing their job properly

[g8r]

Backyards are definately off the course property and OB with or without white stakes. Common sense must prevail in the absence of boundary markers. It should not be hard to determine the course boundary.

Woah, woah, woah!!! we've been told that there is no room for common sense interpretations in the rules of golf!

If it isn't marked and not clearly outside the course boundary then it is not OB.

[Kilroy]

Sorry g8r. Stakes or markings are not required.

Out of Bounds
"Out of bounds" is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course so marked by the Committee.

Backyards are obviously off of the course property and therefore OB with oir without markings.

[Kiwi battler]

Ive just been informed that the rules of golf do not recognise ownership of any property .....they dont recognise someones back yard ....nor someones house ...

Apparently , "boundaries of the course" are what is defined by the committee ...i.e. beyond any fence

While I'm still not certain enough to place money on any bet , I'm keeping an open mind, and will keep ya posted


An interesting sidenote , which is being tossed about on another rules forum , not LS , but another site a lot of peeps from LS cruise , is .......A hole has no boundary on its left hand side , left of that hole is a house belonging to a golfer playing in a competition on the very afternoon of a day when he practiced putting in his hallway ....is the player DQ'ed for breach of rule 7-1

While the above isnt exactly the senerio , the general concensus is YES ....

Kinda throws spanners into most of the above posts if the wording of the definition of OOB has been misinterpreted huh

[Kilroy]

How about posting links to said discussions?

[Kiwi battler]

As I said , I'm still not 100% convinced , altho I have indicated in an earlier post that that is sorta the way I was leaning on the debate , tho not sure enough to push the issue .....It was well before I stubled across this thread and certainly warrants further investigation ..

If you must , http://www.donlilleygolfrules.co.uk/

[Kilroy]

Can you provide links to the threads you mentioned?

[justsomeguy]

Can you provide links to the threads you mentioned?

I think he's talking about the "Letter of the Law" thread on the link he posted.

Its a discussion forum similar to this one. There is no indication that anyone on the site has any credentials - it is simply people's opinions on the Rules of Golf and how they should be interpreted. Its really no different than the discussion here.

I noticed that no mention is made anywhere about the definition of OB in the Rules and how that impacts the discussion - it seems to be totally ignored. In fact, in the discussion about whether an unmarked river beside the course is OB or not they seem to have completely forgotten that a river is a water hazard by definition whether marked or not!

BTW, the notion that someone practicing putting in his own home could be DQ'd under 7-1 is so preposterous that its not even worth commenting on. THAT alone tells me all I need to know about the value of the advice given.