Women in British Open

[EDSGOLF]

Take a look at this, I wonder what Vijay is thinking:

http://tsn.ca/golf/news_story.asp?id=81797

[owenb]

He may not say much..as it says..if they qualify they would have to consider it. Most would not complain if the women qualified versus taking a sponsor's exemption.

[broken27]

If they qualify, I'm all for it. But, they should have to qualify the whole way through. No sponsor's exemptions in the qualifying events either. Make it tough but fair.

Dan

[em69]

Were you not around for the Suzy Whaley fiasco? She qualified and plenty of people complained.

[NoBack]

She played from a forward set of tees, meaning she played a course 10 percent shorter than the men, at Ellington Ridge Country Club.

http://www.ottawagolf.com/forum/show...ht=Suzy+Whaley

This from the other thread when she played in that event. So did she really qualify like the men??? :shake

[em69]

http://www.ottawagolf.com/forum/show...ht=Suzy+Whaley

This from the other thread when she played in that event. So did she really qualify like the men??? :shake

She qualified based on the rules and without using a sponsors exemption.

[broken27]

She qualified based on the rules and without using a sponsors exemption.

She didn't qualify under the same set of rules as the men. There's a marked advantage to playing from the "reds". I've already voiced my opinion on cross-overs from women's sports to men's, so I won't bother you all with it again save to say that I only agree with women competing against the men if the PROCESS is equitable. None of this PR-driven bullcrap or political correctness stuff...

If Wie can qualify from the back tees for the John Deere and/or the other qualifier for the British Open, all the more power to her. I've often wondered why we all deny an inequality between men and women, but have two classes of sport and different rules. To me that indicates an inequality, which isn't a bad thing. If we were all the same, we'd all be mediocre!

Dan

[mr shank]

I've often wondered why we all deny an inequality between men and women, but have two classes of sport and different rules. To me that indicates an inequality, which isn't a bad thing. If we were all the same, we'd all be mediocre!

Dan

This is waaaaaaaaaaay too logical & insightful. In the future please have a knee-jerk reaction to topics like this.

[broken27]

This is waaaaaaaaaaay too logical & insightful. In the future please have a knee-jerk reaction to topics like this.

Oops....

Dan

[powerlefty]

She didn't qualify under the same set of rules as the men. There's a marked advantage to playing from the "reds". I've already voiced my opinion on cross-overs from women's sports to men's, so I won't bother you all with it again save to say that I only agree with women competing against the men if the PROCESS is equitable. None of this PR-driven bullcrap or political correctness stuff...

If Wie can qualify from the back tees for the John Deere and/or the other qualifier for the British Open, all the more power to her. I've often wondered why we all deny an inequality between men and women, but have two classes of sport and different rules. To me that indicates an inequality, which isn't a bad thing. If we were all the same, we'd all be mediocre!

Dan

As I said last year when this was raging, rules were established, she played by the rules, she captured a spot in the PGA Tour's GHO by her performance in the local Connecticut PGA tournament (I think the previous year, i.e. 2002). If there was a flaw it was that the committee of that tournament did not specify only one set of tees was to be used and in fact allowed more than one set. By the way, she did not play from the "reds", she played from what would be the equivalent of the BLUES or even the TIPS at almost every course around here (except those with TIPS in the 7000 yard range such as Eagle Creek, The Marshes, etc). I seem to recall she played around 6500 YDS.

I understand that particular tournament has now changed its rules - in order to qualify for the GHO through the local Connecticut PGA event the competitor must play from the same tees as everyone else.

As for Michell Wie, I expect her to qualify for multiple events on the PGA Tour over the next several years so long as she keeps her parents a long ways away from her on the golf course!

[broken27]

As I said last year when this was raging, rules were established, she played by the rules, she captured a spot in the PGA Tour's GHO by her performance in the local Connecticut PGA tournament (I think the previous year, i.e. 2002). If there was a flaw it was that the committee of that tournament did not specify only one set of tees was to be used and in fact allowed more than one set. By the way, she did not play from the "reds", she played from what would be the equivalent of the BLUES or even the TIPS at almost every course around here (except those with TIPS in the 7000 yard range such as Eagle Creek, The Marshes, etc). I seem to recall she played around 6500 YDS.

Wow, lighten up! I meant nothing of any offence or slight to this woman. My issue is with having two sets of rules, not against someone playing within either one. My comment about playing from the "reds" was somewhat of a mock comparison that most people who are in this forum can relate to, nothing more. You don't have to defend her....

Cheers,
Dan

[Deep Woods]

Are there sponsor exemptions for the B. Open ? If there are, its up to them who they invite...a capitalist system.

And if shes not exempted, I'm sure (once she matures) well see some great golf out of her...enough to qualify in any men's event.

My impression from the majors: it takes more than just talent, it takes a level of maturity (drive, awareness, experience, pressure management)...try to remember she's 14. What were you all doing at 14 ?

[powerlefty]

Are there sponsor exemptions for the B. Open ? If there are, its up to them who they invite...a capitalist system.

And if shes not exempted, I'm sure (once she matures) well see some great golf out of her...enough to qualify in any men's event.

My impression from the majors: it takes more than just talent, it takes a level of maturity (drive, awareness, experience, pressure management)...try to remember she's 14. What were you all doing at 14 ?

I do not believe there are any sponsors exemptions. There are many exemptions based on performance (i.e. placing in the top X on various money lists or in the top Y of certain tournaments, etc). as well as qualifying tournaments. The link below describes the process. The bottom line is you must play your way in either now or based on past tournaments somewhere. It is similar to the US Open criteria although it looks like the number of exemptions is greater and the exemptions are more international in flavour.

http://www.opengolf.com/qualifying/i...qualifying.sps

[em69]

She played by the rules which were set at the time and qualified by the rules which were set at the time...plain and simple. She accomplished something that none of us could do.

[Colby]

Wow, lighten up! I meant nothing of any offence or slight to this woman. My issue is with having two sets of rules, not against someone playing within either one. My comment about playing from the "reds" was somewhat of a mock comparison that most people who are in this forum can relate to, nothing more. You don't have to defend her....

Cheers,
Dan

Dan,

There was only one set of rules for the qualifier. Women played from this tee block, men from another. One set of rules, but from two tee blocks. With the controversy that ensued, future tournaments will be held from the same set of tee blocks.

[themob]

So if women can play in male events, why cant male golfers play on the womens tour. If Vijay goes and qualifies for the US womens open or British open, can he play?

If you want to open the floodgates of people playing cross tours like that it has to go both ways.

Now obviously special charity tournaments or skins game are free for all. But tournaments with trophys and prestige and tradition should be for the respective genders. I dont see any women in the NHL, MLB, NBA. They have their own leagues which is great. Golf shouldnt be any different.

[el tigre]

So if women can play in male events, why cant male golfers play on the womens tour. If Vijay goes and qualifies for the US womens open or British open, can he play?

If you want to open the floodgates of people playing cross tours like that it has to go both ways.

In case you hadn't noticed, men have a gender-based advantage over women in most athletic events. It's no different than events with different age brackets.

Michelle Wie played in the US Women's Open this year - are you also suggesting that Annika Sorenstam be allowed to compete in the Junior Links tournament?

I dont see any women in the NHL, MLB, NBA. They have their own leagues which is great. Golf shouldnt be any different.

Golf isn't any different. There is nothing preventing a women competing in the NHL, MLB, NBA or PGA if she is good enough to compete against men at that level. It wouldn't surprise me to see a women playing in the NHL one day (likely a goaltender), and Michelle Wie is already playing in selected PGA events.

[em69]

So if women can play in male events, why cant male golfers play on the womens tour. If Vijay goes and qualifies for the US womens open or British open, can he play?

The woman have their own tour...then men don't.

I dont see any women in the NHL, MLB, NBA. They have their own leagues which is great. Golf shouldnt be any different.

Again, those are not mens leagues...they are open to the best players, male or female. Clearly you don't remember Manon Rheaume, the female goaltender who played for Tampa Bay in '92-93.

[Andru]

She qualified based on the rules and without using a sponsors exemption.

Those rules have been tightened up so a Suzie Whaley can't walk in, play the short tees and end up the champion. If you want the spot in the PGA event you have to play the back tees.

Basically saying yes she did qualify through a loop hole in the rules as they were written. Speaking for discussion sake. Did she qualify or prove she deserved the spot? I don't think so. Having the same set of qualifying rules for all players is the best way.

[LobWedge]

That's why it's called the British Open. It is open to all those who want to attempt to qualify. Same with the U.S. Open. Men, Women, old, young. As long as you meet the minimum handicap requirements for the qualifying rounds, you pay your money, you take your chances.

Even the PGA is open to women if they want. You just need to be a Class "A" PGA of America teacher and get through the qualifying.

[themob]

The woman have their own tour...then men don't.


Again, those are not mens leagues...they are open to the best players, male or female. Clearly you don't remember Manon Rheaume, the female goaltender who played for Tampa Bay in '92-93.

Women do have their own tour. Firstly, there is a big difference in age and sex. I never mentioned age. If a 17 year old(as i think Sergio was when he played his first tour event) can compete with other men, thats fine i guess. After all 17 year olds play in the NHL or NBA already.

Manon Rheaume practiced with the team. Never played a real game. However there was NO WNHL back then. I'm glad to see professional womens sports leagues, but they are just that - womens leagues. Professional men's leagues should remain as they are and be men only. Why do you need women playing? Why should they be allowed to play if men can't play on their tour?

If there was no pro female only leagues i would totally support females who can compete at the same levels as men out there doing so. I'm all for equality. As soon as its not equal(as is the case with Annika and Michelle playing in men's event, and say Adam Scott or Vijay not allowed to play on a WPGA event) then i have major problems. Nothing to do with their skills, everything to do with equality.

[Andru]

I don't agree. The PGA tour and the mens tours are for the best golfers in the world be it man or woman. What's the big deal anyway?

If a person qualifies for the event or tour under the same rules as everyone else. ( Not Suzie Whaley ) then they have the right to do so and the PGA, RAGC and all other governing bodies has the obligation to provide those opportunities.

That's the greatest thing about golf. Thre's no free rides. You're rewarded for how well. you play. Stipulating that the best tours in the wolrd are for MEN only. Plays right into the very exclusionary policies golf is known for. Golf needs to grow the freak up.

Yes there's a womens tour. Big deal. It's the best WOMEN in the world. The PGA, EuroPGA and the rest are for the best GOLFERS in the world. If Michelle Wie turns into the golfer she could be. Then she should and will compete against the best.

Let's not talk about equality. LPGA tour event. 2 million dollar purse, PGA 5 million. If VJ didn't care about money and wanted to beat up on some inferior players he would become and amateur and compete in his local club championship. Come on!!! Really. One is a woman wanting test herself against the best. The other is some guy wanting to bully some inferior players. You have to be able to see the difference here.

[LobWedge]

Women do have their own tour. Firstly, there is a big difference in age and sex. I never mentioned age. If a 17 year old(as i think Sergio was when he played his first tour event) can compete with other men, thats fine i guess. After all 17 year olds play in the NHL or NBA already.

Manon Rheaume practiced with the team. Never played a real game. However there was NO WNHL back then. I'm glad to see professional womens sports leagues, but they are just that - womens leagues. Professional men's leagues should remain as they are and be men only. Why do you need women playing? Why should they be allowed to play if men can't play on their tour?

If there was no pro female only leagues i would totally support females who can compete at the same levels as men out there doing so. I'm all for equality. As soon as its not equal(as is the case with Annika and Michelle playing in men's event, and say Adam Scott or Vijay not allowed to play on a WPGA event) then i have major problems. Nothing to do with their skills, everything to do with equality.

That's a loaded argument. Your point only has validity if the sides are truly equal and balanced. They're not. If male and female athletes (or men and women in general, for that matter) we're being equally compensated for thier respective jobs, then you would probably see some crossover.

Statistics don't lie. PGA Tour players hit it longer and score lower than thier LPGA counterparts. The idea is to pursue the highest level possible. They may look like they're playing the same game, but they're not, and if any person, man or woman, wants to try to qualify and compete, more power to them.

[el tigre]

Professional men's leagues should remain as they are and be men only. Why do you need women playing? Why should they be allowed to play if men can't play on their tour?

You've missed the point. Neither the NHL nor the PGA have ever been men's leagues restricted to men only. They are for the best in the world at their sport, regardless of age, race, religion, nationality or GENDER. If you're good enough to compete at that level, you can play. It has always been that way.

If there was no pro female only leagues i would totally support females who can compete at the same levels as men out there doing so. I'm all for equality. As soon as its not equal(as is the case with Annika and Michelle playing in men's event, and say Adam Scott or Vijay not allowed to play on a WPGA event) then i have major problems. Nothing to do with their skills, everything to do with equality.

It is a well-established principle in all sports that players should try to compete at the highest level they can attain. It is also a well-established principle that lower-level leagues be allowed to have restrictions on the number (if any) of elite players that are allowed to play in their league. That is why junior players are allowed to compete at the professional levels but not vice versa. That is also why women are permitted to compete at PGA events (the elite level of golf) but not vice versa.

What would it prove to allow Vijay to compete for your local club championship? Do you think this would be fair and equal?

[mr shank]

Women do have their own tour. Firstly, there is a big difference in age and sex. I never mentioned age. If a 17 year old(as i think Sergio was when he played his first tour event) can compete with other men, thats fine i guess. After all 17 year olds play in the NHL or NBA already.

Manon Rheaume practiced with the team. Never played a real game. However there was NO WNHL back then. I'm glad to see professional womens sports leagues, but they are just that - womens leagues. Professional men's leagues should remain as they are and be men only. Why do you need women playing? Why should they be allowed to play if men can't play on their tour?

If there was no pro female only leagues i would totally support females who can compete at the same levels as men out there doing so. I'm all for equality. As soon as its not equal(as is the case with Annika and Michelle playing in men's event, and say Adam Scott or Vijay not allowed to play on a WPGA event) then i have major problems. Nothing to do with their skills, everything to do with equality.

Actually there are no 17 year olds in the NHL. You must be 18 to be drafted.
Also, Manon Rheaume played only exhibition game(s) which was basically a publicity stunt, and a good one since Rheaume would have had trouble making most varsity teams.

[Colby]

What would it prove to allow Vijay to compete for your local club championship? Do you think this would be fair and equal?

It would be if he used left handed ladies clubs

[em69]

It would be if he used left handed ladies clubs

He'd still whoop us.

[mberube]

Are there sponsor exemptions for the B. Open ? If there are, its up to them who they invite...a capitalist system.

And if shes not exempted, I'm sure (once she matures) well see some great golf out of her...enough to qualify in any men's event.

My impression from the majors: it takes more than just talent, it takes a level of maturity (drive, awareness, experience, pressure management)...try to remember she's 14. What were you all doing at 14 ?

I totally agree! She mist the cut by one shot in her last PGA tour event. At 14, It is very impressive female or male. I don't think Tiger came that close when he was an amateur.