Getting my clubs fitted for my swing

[acadian]

I was wondering if some of you could probably help me out on this ,, it seems obvious , but i want to know how much of a difference getting FITTED clubs for your swing does , then simply using a set of irons off the rack from the store.
Cause i'm into my 5th year now and i love this game like crazzy,, i manage to shoot mid 70's to mid 80's on average , and have seen the odd game near par.
I'm still using irons i baught 3 years ago from Chuck Browns , a set of Mizuno MP-14 blades wich i love , but i never had them fitted to my swing, everything is off the rack.
I know there is ALOT of emphasis put on the short game , and i'm still working on that ,hehhe , but will getting fitted clubs improve my consistency enough to maybe lower my scores by a couple shots???? I'm only 5,9 -5,10" so maybe clubs off the rack are for someone taller or shorter i don't know ,,
Were would anyone recomend going , that have a good reputation of knowing what the heck they are doing ,heheheh
Thanks ,, appreciate the help

[1972Apex]

Well, MP-14s are good clubs, and it seems like you have the game to handle them. Your height measurements sound about standard to me, unless you have freakishly long arms or a short torso.
If you like the 14s why not just take them to a good club fitter and have them checked? If the lies are off slightly or need to be adjusted for your swing they are very easy to bend so a competant clubmaker could do it very easily.
I should qualify my statement by noting that I myself am not a huge proponent of custom clubfitting... not because I don't believe it has benefit, but because it is so dependant on the quality of the clubfitter one is working with. I have seen just too many people with custom clubs that were ill-fitted to their swings. And I've also seen too many people fitted with clubs to compensate for a poor swing, when they would have been better off first taking lessons (doesn't sound like that would be a problem for you...).
I have also seen people fitted very well with custom clubs. In fact, my A set is a fitted set of clubs, although I did most of my own fitting with the help of a clubmaker I trust and then had the clubs made to the specs we decided on.
When done right, custom club fitting works very well. However it is often forgotten that OEM irons, like your MP-14s can also be modified to just about any spec you want if you find the right guy.

[Marmotte]

...If you like the 14s why not just take them to a good club fitter and have them checked? If the lies are off slightly or need to be adjusted for your swing they are very easy to bend so a competant clubmaker could do it very easily.
I should qualify my statement by noting that I myself am not a huge proponent of custom clubfitting... not because I don't believe it has benefit, but because it is so dependant on the quality of the clubfitter one is working with...

Club fitting is a critical thing when you do not feel comfortable with your clubs. If you do, the gain may be marginal and not really worth the expense. Before going out to a club fitter, make sure you have a good set of statistics from your game. Getting consistant below 80 is tough business. There are too many clubfitters that work from "anthropomorphic" approaches and do not attach enough importance on what deficiency in your game you are trying to eliminate.
I agree with Proforged, it is a question of the competency of the clubfitter..., I would not volunteer for your case. It will take plenty of time. When you slect one, figure out how much time the clubfitter will give to adjusting clubs to your "future game" compared to analysis of your current body and swing configuration.

[acadian]

Wow ,,didn't think it could get so technical,,, what got me thinking of this really was the commercial from Ping with Chris Dimarco , saying the only reason he plays so well is because his clubs are fitted to HIM ,, then the lady beside him says , i bet you can't hit my irons , heheh That just got me thinking.
I guess it's a question of finding the wright clubfiter for the job , and i guess when it comes to situations like this were it could help me shoot under 80 more consistency,, money SHOULDN'T be an object ,hehheh
Because i not only got blades but i got a mixed bag as well ,, with different shafts ,,
e.g 2 iron is a Titleist with R200 shaft , 3-PW mp 14 blades with stiff S300 shafts , Taylor Made wedge , Clevland wedge
What also got me to ask this question was i was playing with pro from Poplar Grove the other day at View Moulin ,, and he told me that his clubs were all set to the same frequency. wich was 265 ,,,,,,,,,,, I didn't even know that was a term for golf
He told me that basicly what it is ,, is that all your clubs will feel the same when swinging them ,, from driver to wedge ,,,,,,,,
But thanks for the tips guys ,, it's greatly appreciated

[1972Apex]

Actually, a mixed set is not a bad idea. Your irons should match but I believe wedges and woods can differ quite a bit, as long as the shafts fit you.
Let's look at your set. Your irons all match and DGS300 is a great shaft. As far as R200 in the 2-iron, that is actually not a bad idea. The softer shaft in the long iron helps in getting it up, which is the toughest part of hitting a 2-iron...
Wedges are more a matter of feel than in matching and shaft flex, although both can be important. Like in a long iron, a softer flex in a wedge shaft can be of some benefit.
As for the pro's comment, he probably meant that all of his irons were based on a 265 frequency of one iron in his set, probably his 5-iron. Perhaps someone with more experience in the technicalities of frequency matching than me could explain exactly what that means.
I'm surprised none of the proponents of custom fitting on OttawaGolf have chimed in so far. There are some very knowledgable people on this forum who could provide the opposing viewpoint on clubfitting and what the benefits are when it is done properly.

Wow ,,didn't think it could get so technical,,, what got me thinking of this really was the commercial from Ping with Chris Dimarco , saying the only reason he plays so well is because his clubs are fitted to HIM ,, then the lady beside him says , i bet you can't hit my irons , heheh That just got me thinking.
I guess it's a question of finding the wright clubfiter for the job , and i guess when it comes to situations like this were it could help me shoot under 80 more consistency,, money SHOULDN'T be an object ,hehheh
Because i not only got blades but i got a mixed bag as well ,, with different shafts ,,
e.g 2 iron is a Titleist with R200 shaft , 3-PW mp 14 blades with stiff S300 shafts , Taylor Made wedge , Clevland wedge
What also got me to ask this question was i was playing with pro from Poplar Grove the other day at View Moulin ,, and he told me that his clubs were all set to the same frequency. wich was 265 ,,,,,,,,,,, I didn't even know that was a term for golf
He told me that basicly what it is ,, is that all your clubs will feel the same when swinging them ,, from driver to wedge ,,,,,,,,
But thanks for the tips guys ,, it's greatly appreciated

[BC MIST]

What also got me to ask this question was i was playing with pro from Poplar Grove the other day at View Moulin ,, and he told me that his clubs were all set to the same frequency. wich was 265 ,,,,,,,,,,, I didn't even know that was a term for golf
He told me that basicly what it is ,, is that all your clubs will feel the same when swinging them ,, from driver to wedge ,,,,,,,,

The normal difference in frequency from club to club for a swing weight matched set of clubs, is roughly 4 cycles per minute. If your 3 iron is measured at 295 cpm, then your wedges would be around 323 cpm. These short irons play a lot stiffer than your long irons. This kind of frequency matching is one school of thought.

The other extreme is to have all of your clubs cut at the same frequency. If just this is done, and if the chosen frequency is based on say your 7 iron, then all of the irons will have the same flex as the 7 iron. So, the long irons will play stiffer than traditional and the short irons will play more flexible than usual. The frequency of each shaft still gets stiffer as you move to the short irons, however, because the head weight of each iron gets heavier to the short irons, this makes the shaft play more flexible.

Obviously, there can be a middle ground where the shafts can be cut so that the stiffness slope is softened or made a little more flexible than the traditional.

Now, when all the clubs have the same frequency, the clubmaker frequently matches the clubs in several different ways, other than just by swingweight, which is most common, but not necessarily the best method to provide the consistency from club to club. Single frequency clubs are usually matched by the Moment of Inertia(MOI). This involves weighing all the componet of your clubs, finding balance points of the grip and shaft, making the mathematical calculations, then, adding weight to the shafts both down the shaft roughly 14" from the butt end , adding weight under the wrist axis, which is about 4" from the butt and perhaps by altering the lengths of the clubs from the traditional .5 inch difference to about .4". All of the irons will have the same weight, unlike traditional swing weight matched clubs. The net result of all of this is that each club will literally feel the same, require the same amount of energy to swing, and the face will square up at the same point as all the others, unlike a swingweight matched set that has a different squaring up point for each club. Each iron will play at its listed loft rather than having the short irons hooded or the long irons play more than the listed loft.

Eric Cook of Swing Sync uses a method like the above and charges you accordingly for all of this work. I have done this to all of my irons and to those of a friend. Currently, I am hitting the longer irons better than I ever have, and my jury is still out on the shorter irons. Perhaps with a few more games, warmer temperatures and less wind, I will better be able to determine the effectivness of SFM for me.

BTW: The 265 that the professional referred to was the frequency of his woods only. If the irons were matched to the woods frequency, they would be unhittable. Normally, there is an approximate difference of 30 cpm's between the irons and the woods so the player with 265 cpm woods, would be swinging 295 cpm irons.

It is possible to match the MOI of the woods to the irons, but not the frequency.

Hope this helps.

[themob]

Wow... golf really is a science these days.

While undoubtedly something like that would definately not do you any harm, one has to wonder what pro's of 20 years ago were playing with. They didnt seem to have any problem.

Right now i'm a 12-13 handicap and most of that is due to a horrible short game(but last year i half learned to putt).

I went from playing a set of Macgregor Tourney cavitys to now a set of Titleist 962 blade like irons. I had Dynalite shafts, and now DG S300s. I cant realyl feel much difference in stiffness when swinging them but i notice my ballflights are much more controled(not sure if its the heads or shafts, but from what i read the DG S300's are known to be a bit lower which is great).

Will me getting all the irons and heads lead taped to the same frequency and swingweight etc get me from a 13 to a 5 handicap, i very much doubt it. I guess it would be worth a try, but until my swing seems to be in such a good state that i dont see any other ball strikign improvements i just cant imagine itll change anythign that much.

[1972Apex]

Nicely done BC... that's the kind of info I was hoping someone would offer up in this thread.

[acadian]

Thanks alot BC , seem to know your golf.
I appreciate the help guys ,, but after playing a couple rounds this week end , i realize that a fairway wood would help me quite a bit ,, i got Driver ,, then i fall to a 2 iron,, then 3 to PW,,, and i eagled 2 par 5's this week end using a buddy's 3 wood trying for the green in 2 ,got it on both times, never done that in a round before,,
But at least i know what to look for and what frequency of clubs means (CPM)
Another thing i notice is that , when at address , the sole of my irons aren't flat to the ground , maybe because i'm only 5-9, 5-10" dont know ,, but the toe of my club is a little off the groud,, to make the sole of the club square on the ground i have to exagerate my address posture (straighten out my elbows)a little wich isn't really confortable when in my take-away , should i have the hosel bent a little so that when i'm at address in a confortable position the entire sole of the club is square to the ground??
And if so , will this change my ball flight at all??
I just figure that by getting the hosel bent i will be more consistent ,because my body (arms) will be more confortable at address???
hope i explained that alright

[BC MIST]

Another thing i notice is that , when at address , the sole of my irons aren't flat to the ground , maybe because i'm only 5-9, 5-10" dont know ,, but the toe of my club is a little off the groud,, to make the sole of the club square on the ground i have to exagerate my address posture (straighten out my elbows)a little wich isn't really confortable when in my take-away , should i have the hosel bent a little so that when i'm at address in a confortable position the entire sole of the club is square to the ground??
And if so , will this change my ball flight at all??
I just figure that by getting the hosel bent i will be more consistent ,because my body (arms) will be more confortable at address???
hope i explained that alright

You did explain it correctly and the toe up position of the clubhead is NOT NECESSARILY a cause for concern.

If I looked at you in the address position from the down the line view, there would be an obtuse angle(less than 180) formed by your trail(right?) arm and the clubshaft. This position causes the toe of the club to be in the air a little. This is normal. However, the only imortant position is where the clubhead is at impact. The truth is the correct impact position has the club shaft and your right forearm in a straight line, not the obtuse angle position, therefore the clubhead is in a flat position.

The only way to check your lie angles at impact is to hit balls off something like a lie check board that will leave a mark on the bottom of the club. This mark should be centred in the middle of the club face. If it is towards the heel then the lie angle is too upright and with a perfect swing your ball will travel left of target. The opposite is true for a mark toward the toe.

By raising your arms up to achieve a flat club head at address you are simulating a single axis swing, like the one used by the legendary Moe Norman. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact, with this kind of swing you would hit the ball straighter. However, the grip in particular, and the stance, is different from what you are using so raising the arms is not a good idea for you as it will negatively affect how your wrists hinge on the backswing.

[Chieflongtee]

Another thing i notice is that , when at address , the sole of my irons aren't flat to the ground , maybe because i'm only 5-9, 5-10" dont know ,, but the toe of my club is a little off the groud,, to make the sole of the club square on the ground i have to exagerate my address posture (straighten out my elbows)a little wich isn't really confortable when in my take-away , should i have the hosel bent a little so that when i'm at address in a confortable position the entire sole of the club is square to the ground??

All this is speculation until you perform a dynamic lie test i.e hitting balls off a rubber mat with no spikes on etc.. The toe should stick up a little at adress. Some claim that it should stick up enough for someone to be able to slide a coin underneath the sole.(But that is a static test which imo is up to no good) The reason why it should stick up is because the shaft will droop when swinginging In other words the lie will change when swinging because the shaft will be flexing inward.
So the only true solution is a lie test hitting real golf balls.

[acadian]

I cannot hit a ball off of those rubbers mats ,,specially without any spikes on, MY left foot in the front always opens up on my fallow through ,, can't keep it still ,, only way to avoid that is to open up my front foot a little more as if i was hitting a fade or slice.
I mean even with the toe of my club being upright , i can still manage to hit the ball pretty straight ,, but i was just wondering if the sole was falt to the ground , maybe i would have a little more consistency
So if i understand what you said ,,, it's totaly normal to have to toe upright because the flex in the shaft will take care of the head being square and flat at impact
SO if i had my hosel bent a little , most likely i'd be pushing my shots right of target???

[BC MIST]

I mean even with the toe of my club being upright , i can still manage to hit the ball pretty straight ,, but i was just wondering if the sole was falt to the ground , maybe i would have a little more consistency
So if i understand what you said ,,, it's totaly normal to have to toe upright because the flex in the shaft will take care of the head being square and flat at impact
SO if i had my hosel bent a little , most likely i'd be pushing my shots right of target???

Again, it does not matter how the club is soled at address, only it's position at impact. As you swing into the ball on the downswing, you do not return to the same position that you were at address. You hands/arms are raised somewhat, and that, primarily, will cause the head to be flat. Yes, the shaft has some affect, but it's mainly the swing.[/B]

Flatten the lie and the ball will go right.

[Chieflongtee]

I've done it many times at the Archambault driving range in Gatineau and there really is nothing to it . Just pretend you are hitting off the turf and after 3 or 4 shots look underneath the club and look at the mark the rubber left on the club. If the mark is dead center then your clubs do not need to be bent. The reason you should not wear any spikes when performing a lie test is because the spikes will raise your heels on a solid surface and therefore you'll end up with false results. Think of club lie as the same as hitting from an uphill or downhill lie on the course. When facing those situations you have to adjust your aim accordingly don't you? NUF said.Late.

[QUOTE=acadian]I cannot hit a ball off of those rubbers mats ,,specially without any spikes on, MY left foot in the front always opens up on my fallow through ,, can't keep it still ,, only way to avoid that is to open up my front foot a little more as if i was hitting a fade or slice.

[rob]

What about the thickness of the plastic mat? That should offset (no pun) the effect of wearing spikes, right?

I doubt that wearing spikes makes much of a difference for this club-lie test but I could be wrong.

Has anyone seen those slow motion pictures in the golf magazines that feature the swings of your favorite pro? If you look at the shafts closely at a position just before impact, you will see the shaft flexes down - a bunch. The flex, caused by swinging the club down and through the ball, casues the lie angle of the club to change considerably at impact.

This is why you should use a plastic mat to measure the lie for your clubs. If you ask me, I would always suggest wearing spikes for this test.

[Chieflongtee]

What about the thickness of the plastic mat? That should offset (no pun) the effect of wearing spikes, right?

I doubt that wearing spikes makes much of a difference for this club-lie test but I could be wrong.

Has anyone seen those slow motion pictures in the golf magazines that feature the swings of your favorite pro? If you look at the shafts closely at a position just before impact, you will see the shaft flexes down - a bunch. The flex, caused by swinging the club down and through the ball, casues the lie angle of the club to change considerably at impact.

This is why you should use a plastic mat to measure the lie for your clubs. If you ask me, I would always suggest wearing spikes for this test.

Nope. No spikes. Actually your spikes dig in to the turf.