Who's to blame for the Sens disappointing finish?

[The Shtick]

After another solid season (and another disappionting playoff run), who should take the blame?

[jonf]

After another solid season (and another disappionting playoff run), who should take the blame?

martin, lalime, bonk, havlat, alfie, redden, bondra just about everybody but chara, phillips, white, fischer, and hossa

[Big_duck]

martin, lalime, bonk, havlat, alfie, redden, bondra just about everybody but chara, phillips, white, fischer, and hossa

The following is just an observation I AM NOT BLAMING HIM so don't flame me:

It's amazing how much slack the local fans and media are will cut Todd White just because he is from Kanata; for the record:

White 1 goal on 13 shots zero assists 4 pims +/- -1
Alphie 1 goal on 29 shots 2 assists 2 pims +/- 0


Martin (and his pets) have to go.

[NoBack]

Mukler didnt do his job in getting the right people on the ice. Getting Bondra was a mistake. Keeping Lalime was a mistake. Not trading Bonk was a mistake. Top dog gets my vote. :po

[mberube]

The following is just an observation I AM NOT BLAMING HIM so don't flame me:

It's amazing how much slack the local fans and media are will cut Todd White just because he is from Kanata; for the record:

White 1 goal on 13 shots zero assists 4 pims +/- -1
Alphie 1 goal on 29 shots 2 assists 2 pims +/- 0


Martin (and his pets) have to go.

It's hard to blame Alphie and some other players. He has only 1 goal and 2 assists but still shot 29 times on the net plus all the blocked shots from the leafs D line.

I would Blame Belfour for the Sens elimination. Add that to the poll!

How many chances that Hosa have! Blefour was a wall! :cryin

[el tigre]

Well, I'n not voting because you left out the most obvious choice: Eddie Belfour.

Without him, the Leafs would have been gone in 4 straight and we wouldn't be having this discussion. The Sens outplayed the Leafs for 5 out of the 7 games, and were clearly the better TEAM throughout the series. They fired over 30 shots a game at the guy and played in the Toronto end for the majority of the series. Belfour was fantastic, and in the playoffs your goaltender is the most important player on the ice so the Leafs won. Just look at what happened to Detroit in last year's playoffs.

Sure some of the Sens did not play well (Bonk, Bondra, Havlat). Last year Lalime, Bonk and Havlat played great, and Alfie didn't. The year before, Alfie played great and Hossa never showed up. In this series, some of the Leafs sucked as well (Andropov, Berg, Kaberle), but they still won. It happens every year.

I'm not saying they don't need to make changes. But geez, you don't need to gut the team over ONE game or even ONE series - even if you lose to your hated rivals. Some guys sucked, but overall the team played well but they still lost. Get over it.

[mberube]

Well, I'n not voting because you left out the most obvious choice: Eddie Belfour.

Without him, the Leafs would have been gone in 4 straight and we wouldn't be having this discussion. The Sens outplayed the Leafs for 5 out of the 7 games, and were clearly the better TEAM throughout the series. They fired over 30 shots a game at the guy and played in the Toronto end for the majority of the series. Belfour was fantastic, and in the playoffs your goaltender is the most important player on the ice so the Leafs won. Just look at what happened to Detroit in last year's playoffs.

Sure some of the Sens did not play well (Bonk, Bondra, Havlat). Last year Lalime, Bonk and Havlat played great, and Alfie didn't. The year before, Alfie played great and Hossa never showed up. In this series, some of the Leafs sucked as well (Andropov, Berg, Kaberle), but they still won. It happens every year.

I'm not saying they don't need to make changes. But geez, you don't need to gut the team over ONE game or even ONE series - even if you lose to your hated rivals. Some guys sucked, but overall the team played well but they still lost. Get over it.

I totally agree!

Playing badly does not mean that they did not try. Lets take golf as an example. Have you ever played a tournament and you gave was not in you bag. The more you try, the more you crash. Havlat was trying like hell but could not get to the net.

[Hank Hill]

For me it was the lack of ability to adapt, so therefore the coaching staff including Martin. Ottawa won the first game well, their powerplay was firing, so what did Quinn et al do? Well they worked out how too shut down the powerplay.

What did Ottawa do when they were continually pushed to the outside? Nothing! they just kept playing the same way game after game and sure it produced a couple of wins but in the end the Sens had no answer to Quinns tactics.

Lalime was reasonably solid in most games they can't blame him because if the Ottawa coaching stff had done their home work instead of stubbornly resting on thier laurels then the series would have been (at least 4-1) to Ottawa.

Good luck Toronto, you'll need it against the flyers because Hitch is also a good tactician and players like Roenick and others will noty put in the kind of displays as Bonk and De Vries.

[dbleber]

After another solid season (and another disappionting playoff run), who should take the blame?

dbleber;
Belfour won that series and Lalime lost it! Hockey can be won or loss based on goalies. If you do not have the confidence in your keeper you will not play well. Just another questions, where is Jason Spezza? One of the great prospects of the game and they don't play him. Sometimes young blood and fresh legs is just what a tea needs for a game seven, at least he would have given it his all. I wish they would trade him and stop jerking the kid around!
Denny :reallymad

[powerlefty]

Jacques Martin has done an excellent job developing this team. Unfortunately what they need now is a kick in the ass and to see a coach who cares behind the bench. Not that Martin does not care, I am sure he does - he just does not LOOK like he does. Get angrry, fire a water bottle on the ice every once in a while, whine about the refs, call out a player in public occassionally, have an angry press conference, light a fire for God sake. He has taken them from nobodies to the edge of success but he does not have that extra to get them over the edge.

Bonk. Needs a heart transplant. Trade him or walk away from him in the summer during free agency - don't even make him a qualifying offer.

Bondra and deVries were chances Muckler took that didn't pan out this season (unlike last year where the acquisition of Varada and Smolinksi worked out nicely). He did not give up anything off the roster other than some prospects and draft picks. They might work out next year. At least Bondra played with some passion on the PK unlike Bonk who skated around in a daze.

Goaltending. Successful teams all have good to excellent goaltending. Lalime has been a problem since October. Prusek didn't seize the opportunity to shine when it presented itself a couple of short stints in the regular season. Get rid of them both. Bring up Emery as the backup and troll the waters for a goaltender through either free agency or trade. Muckler is to be chastized for not upgrading at the position and Martin likewise for not going to Prusek mid-season and giving him a legitimate shot at winning the job.

[Keithsguy]

Jacques Martin has done an excellent job developing this team. Unfortunately what they need now is a kick in the ass and to see a coach who cares behind the bench. Not that Martin does not care, I am sure he does - he just does not LOOK like he does. Get angrry, fire a water bottle on the ice every once in a while, whine about the refs, call out a player in public occassionally, have an angry press conference, light a fire for God sake. He has taken them from nobodies to the edge of success but he does not have that extra to get them over the edge.

Bingo. Nail on head. Will make a good assistant coach in an already successful organization or a good head coach somewhere rebuilding needs to be done.

[The Shtick]

Well, I'n not voting because you left out the most obvious choice: Eddie Belfour.

Sorry bud, but the Sens beat themselves this year. The Sens lacked inspiration in desperate times. Game 5 was a joke and they did nothing in the first half of game 6. You can shoot all the pucks you want at Belfour.... it's the actual scoring chances that count.

[The Shtick]

dbleber;
Belfour won that series and Lalime lost it! Hockey can be won or loss based on goalies. If you do not have the confidence in your keeper you will not play well. Just another questions, where is Jason Spezza? One of the great prospects of the game and they don't play him. Sometimes young blood and fresh legs is just what a tea needs for a game seven, at least he would have given it his all. I wish they would trade him and stop jerking the kid around!
Denny :reallymad

Spezza is indeed a good player. They kept him out because he doesn't kill penalties. Antoine Vermette is good on the kill and with the unpredictable refs, Vermette had his chance. There was simply no room for Jason Spezza. That's why Bonk has to go in my opinion.

[Big_duck]

That's why Bonk has to go in my opinion.

Poor guy getting dumped on again. I'm no Bonk lover, but there is a reason he was playing: to check the number one centre on the other team. The guy was +2 for the series and he (almost) always was playing against Sundin or Nieuwendyk. Quinn did a good job with last change last night, Bonk wasn't on the ice for any Leaf goals (and was on for Ottawa's goal).

Although he has never lived up the the offensive potential he showed in the "I", he has turned into a fine defensive player. Worth the money? probably not. Worth having on the team? Probably.

[jonf]

Mukler didnt do his job in getting the right people on the ice. Getting Bondra was a mistake. Keeping Lalime was a mistake. Not trading Bonk was a mistake. Top dog gets my vote. :po

The trouble is, Muckler was stuck between a rock and a hard place. He knew he needed to make changes, but he had a coach who had completely opposing views. Its gotta be tough to try to build a team when you can't be sure that the coach is going to play the guys you pick up (simpson, and ray, to a lesser extent)

[mberube]

Press conference is on for the Sens. J Martin is out! :shake

[The Shtick]

Buh bye Jaques!!!

[mberube]

Buh bye Jaques!!!

What is sad is that you’ll probably be back next year blaming somebody else when the Sens are eliminated once again.

[Big_duck]

What is sad is that you’ll probably be back next year blaming somebody else when the Sens are eliminated one again.

Nah, a new coach gets a one year free pass.

[broken27]

Nobody's really blaming Martin for the team being eliminated. But the obvious thing is that he doesn't appear to be able to bring them to the next level, and thus was fired. Makes good sense. It's a hockey decision.

I think Jacques Martin is a very classy individual who knows hockey, cares about hockey, and is one of the best coaches out there for younger hockey teams. He won't be unemployed for long, as there are a few teams looking to rebuild at the moment, and Martin will fit right in. Rangers? Capitals? Blackhawks? Blues?

Will be interesting to see who we get. The top trio of guys who would fit well with Ottawa's team would be Keenan, Quenneville or Paul Maurice.

Cheers,
Dan

[The Shtick]

As Muckler said today, "It's always easier to fire one guy than 29". He also mentioned that we need to get a coach more "offensive minded" and that maybe the message that Jaques was giving the players may have gotten a little "stale". It's a natural choice.

[broken27]

I can't for the life of me figure out what everyone sees in Todd White. Everyone's quick to dump on Bonk, who was one of the more consistent performers among Ottawa forwards, but White's absolute lack of talent and skill goes unnoticed and he gets praised in the media because he rammed his face into the glass while missing a Leaf. Typical "homer-ism".

Bonk's one of the best Selke-type centers in the NHL. He's an extremely gifted passer, a superlative penalty killer, and while he undoubtedly could put up more points, he has at amassed more points than White ever has or will.

The blame for this loss (again) at the hands of the Make Beliefs has to be shared by all the players and coaches. Martin is done, and Lalime will likely be dealt or let go. You can't fire 29 hockey players, so you have to fire the coach.

And someone please give us a few pucks and a roll of hockey tape for Todd White!

Dan

[mberube]

Nobody's really blaming Martin for the team being eliminated. But the obvious thing is that he doesn't appear to be able to bring them to the next level, and thus was fired. Makes good sense. It's a hockey decision.

I think Jacques Martin is a very classy individual who knows hockey, cares about hockey, and is one of the best coaches out there for younger hockey teams. He won't be unemployed for long, as there are a few teams looking to rebuild at the moment, and Martin will fit right in. Rangers? Capitals? Blackhawks? Blues?

Will be interesting to see who we get. The top trio of guys who would fit well with Ottawa's team would be Keenan, Quenneville or Paul Maurice.

Cheers,
Dan

Quenneville and Paul Maurice are defensive style coaches. I don't think they will get the job. As for Keenan, the guy is an ass. Nobody will play for him. Look at FLA. They started to play good after his dismissal. Keenan is old school and players don’t take that anymore.

[NoBack]

I think Jacques Martin is a very classy individual who knows hockey, cares about hockey, and is one of the best coaches out there for younger hockey teams. He won't be unemployed for long, as there are a few teams looking to rebuild at the moment, and Martin will fit right in. Rangers? Capitals? Blackhawks? Blues?

Very good point Dan, I agree 100% with you on this one. We need someone with an attitude. Someone to say it like it is, these guys played bad in 2 games out of the 6. I would have liked to seen some emotion on his face and with in his reactions, to the indeferent play. Someone who will get mad, when they need it. :po

Martin will build another young team and should learn that once the team is built, it's time to move on.

[The Shtick]

Bonk's one of the best Selke-type centers in the NHL. He's an extremely gifted passer, a superlative penalty killer, and while he undoubtedly could put up more points, he has at amassed more points than White ever has or will.

That's why the Sens can still move him while he's still worth something. He can easily be thrown into a deal with Lalime in exchange for a top notch goalie AND make room for Spezza in the line-up.

As for Todd White, he can go play for Jacques Martin's new team in my opinion.

[NoBack]

I can't for the life of me figure out what everyone sees in Todd White. Everyone's quick to dump on Bonk, who was one of the more consistent performers among Ottawa forwards, but White's absolute lack of talent and skill goes unnoticed and he gets praised in the media because he rammed his face into the glass while missing a Leaf. Typical "homer-ism".

Dan, did you notice Toronto has a whole team of Todd Whites. Guys who give it 110% every night. Bonk didnt do that for 6 games and White did. The Leafs arent using their golf clubs today and the Sens are. So I'd like to see them all play like Todd White, Mike Fisher and a few others, then we'd be in round 2 right now.

[mberube]

That is what Boston have been doing for the past 20 years...Hmmmmmm!!!! Still no Cup in Bean town. MTL has been changing coaches for the last 8 years and this is the first year that the team has been playing well since the 93 cup. Quenneville’s gone and so are the blues. The list goes on and on.

I am anxious to see who will replace him!!!!

[powerlefty]

I can't for the life of me figure out what everyone sees in Todd White. Everyone's quick to dump on Bonk, who was one of the more consistent performers among Ottawa forwards, but White's absolute lack of talent and skill goes unnoticed and he gets praised in the media because he rammed his face into the glass while missing a Leaf. Typical "homer-ism".

Bonk's one of the best Selke-type centers in the NHL. He's an extremely gifted passer, a superlative penalty killer, and while he undoubtedly could put up more points, he has at amassed more points than White ever has or will.

The blame for this loss (again) at the hands of the Make Beliefs has to be shared by all the players and coaches. Martin is done, and Lalime will likely be dealt or let go. You can't fire 29 hockey players, so you have to fire the coach.

And someone please give us a few pucks and a roll of hockey tape for Todd White!

Dan

With all due respect, Todd White actually comes to play every night whereas Bonk needs a heart transplant. Yes Bonk does the job defensively - when he feels like playing. And he does show flashes of brilliance - when he feels like playing. The bottom line is that a guy who makes $3.5M (Bonk) should play like it means something to him each and every second he steps on the ice instead of just filling out a jersey half of the time. Todd White makes less than a third ($1.15M) of what Bonk makes. White averages just under 0.6 pts/game and Bonk just under 0.7 pts/game. So for that extra $2.4M/yr we get somebody who hanges up an extra 15 points/yr and gives you an underwhelming 40% in the faceoff circle compared to White's 52%. Oh yeah, and the guy plays like the smallest 6'3'/220lb centre I have ever watched.

[broken27]

With all due respect, Todd White actually comes to play every night whereas Bonk needs a heart transplant. Yes Bonk does the job defensively - when he feels like playing. And he does show flashes of brilliance - when he feels like playing. The bottom line is that a guy who makes $3.5M (Bonk) should play like it means something to him each and every second he steps on the ice instead of just filling out a jersey half of the time. Todd White makes less than a third ($1.15M) of what Bonk makes. White averages just under 0.6 pts/game and Bonk just under 0.7 pts/game. So for that extra $2.4M/yr we get somebody who hanges up an extra 15 points/yr and gives you an underwhelming 40% in the faceoff circle compared to White's 52%. Oh yeah, and the guy plays like the smallest 6'3'/220lb centre I have ever watched.

If you're only going to measure someone's worth by their pts per game stats, then your point makes sense. But then compare plus/minus, compare who they line up against, and open your eyes (Bonk was pretty physical in the Leafs series).

Nobody can convince me that White is better than Bonk, nor that White is a better guy to have on your team. That's pure nonsense, which for some reason has been perpetuated by local media who have done nothing but vilify Bonk since the very beginning.

Dan

[Big_duck]

If you're only going to measure someone's worth by their pts per game stats, then your point makes sense. But then compare plus/minus, compare who they line up against, and open your eyes (Bonk was pretty physical in the Leafs series).

Nobody can convince me that White is better than Bonk, nor that White is a better guy to have on your team. That's pure nonsense, which for some reason has been perpetuated by local media who have done nothing but vilify Bonk since the very beginning.

Dan

If White wasn't from Kanata, He would be no more then an occasional callup from Bingo.