Who's to blame for the Sens disappointing finish?

[The Shtick]

After another solid season (and another disappionting playoff run), who should take the blame?

[jonf]

After another solid season (and another disappionting playoff run), who should take the blame?

martin, lalime, bonk, havlat, alfie, redden, bondra just about everybody but chara, phillips, white, fischer, and hossa

[Big_duck]

martin, lalime, bonk, havlat, alfie, redden, bondra just about everybody but chara, phillips, white, fischer, and hossa

The following is just an observation I AM NOT BLAMING HIM so don't flame me:

It's amazing how much slack the local fans and media are will cut Todd White just because he is from Kanata; for the record:

White 1 goal on 13 shots zero assists 4 pims +/- -1
Alphie 1 goal on 29 shots 2 assists 2 pims +/- 0


Martin (and his pets) have to go.

[NoBack]

Mukler didnt do his job in getting the right people on the ice. Getting Bondra was a mistake. Keeping Lalime was a mistake. Not trading Bonk was a mistake. Top dog gets my vote. :po

[jonf]

Mukler didnt do his job in getting the right people on the ice. Getting Bondra was a mistake. Keeping Lalime was a mistake. Not trading Bonk was a mistake. Top dog gets my vote. :po

The trouble is, Muckler was stuck between a rock and a hard place. He knew he needed to make changes, but he had a coach who had completely opposing views. Its gotta be tough to try to build a team when you can't be sure that the coach is going to play the guys you pick up (simpson, and ray, to a lesser extent)

[mberube]

Press conference is on for the Sens. J Martin is out! :shake

[mberube]

The following is just an observation I AM NOT BLAMING HIM so don't flame me:

It's amazing how much slack the local fans and media are will cut Todd White just because he is from Kanata; for the record:

White 1 goal on 13 shots zero assists 4 pims +/- -1
Alphie 1 goal on 29 shots 2 assists 2 pims +/- 0


Martin (and his pets) have to go.

It's hard to blame Alphie and some other players. He has only 1 goal and 2 assists but still shot 29 times on the net plus all the blocked shots from the leafs D line.

I would Blame Belfour for the Sens elimination. Add that to the poll!

How many chances that Hosa have! Blefour was a wall! :cryin

[el tigre]

Well, I'n not voting because you left out the most obvious choice: Eddie Belfour.

Without him, the Leafs would have been gone in 4 straight and we wouldn't be having this discussion. The Sens outplayed the Leafs for 5 out of the 7 games, and were clearly the better TEAM throughout the series. They fired over 30 shots a game at the guy and played in the Toronto end for the majority of the series. Belfour was fantastic, and in the playoffs your goaltender is the most important player on the ice so the Leafs won. Just look at what happened to Detroit in last year's playoffs.

Sure some of the Sens did not play well (Bonk, Bondra, Havlat). Last year Lalime, Bonk and Havlat played great, and Alfie didn't. The year before, Alfie played great and Hossa never showed up. In this series, some of the Leafs sucked as well (Andropov, Berg, Kaberle), but they still won. It happens every year.

I'm not saying they don't need to make changes. But geez, you don't need to gut the team over ONE game or even ONE series - even if you lose to your hated rivals. Some guys sucked, but overall the team played well but they still lost. Get over it.

[mberube]

Well, I'n not voting because you left out the most obvious choice: Eddie Belfour.

Without him, the Leafs would have been gone in 4 straight and we wouldn't be having this discussion. The Sens outplayed the Leafs for 5 out of the 7 games, and were clearly the better TEAM throughout the series. They fired over 30 shots a game at the guy and played in the Toronto end for the majority of the series. Belfour was fantastic, and in the playoffs your goaltender is the most important player on the ice so the Leafs won. Just look at what happened to Detroit in last year's playoffs.

Sure some of the Sens did not play well (Bonk, Bondra, Havlat). Last year Lalime, Bonk and Havlat played great, and Alfie didn't. The year before, Alfie played great and Hossa never showed up. In this series, some of the Leafs sucked as well (Andropov, Berg, Kaberle), but they still won. It happens every year.

I'm not saying they don't need to make changes. But geez, you don't need to gut the team over ONE game or even ONE series - even if you lose to your hated rivals. Some guys sucked, but overall the team played well but they still lost. Get over it.

I totally agree!

Playing badly does not mean that they did not try. Lets take golf as an example. Have you ever played a tournament and you gave was not in you bag. The more you try, the more you crash. Havlat was trying like hell but could not get to the net.

[Hank Hill]

For me it was the lack of ability to adapt, so therefore the coaching staff including Martin. Ottawa won the first game well, their powerplay was firing, so what did Quinn et al do? Well they worked out how too shut down the powerplay.

What did Ottawa do when they were continually pushed to the outside? Nothing! they just kept playing the same way game after game and sure it produced a couple of wins but in the end the Sens had no answer to Quinns tactics.

Lalime was reasonably solid in most games they can't blame him because if the Ottawa coaching stff had done their home work instead of stubbornly resting on thier laurels then the series would have been (at least 4-1) to Ottawa.

Good luck Toronto, you'll need it against the flyers because Hitch is also a good tactician and players like Roenick and others will noty put in the kind of displays as Bonk and De Vries.

[Ty Webb]

For me it was the lack of ability to adapt, so therefore the coaching staff including Martin. Ottawa won the first game well, their powerplay was firing, so what did Quinn et al do? Well they worked out how too shut down the powerplay.

What did Ottawa do when they were continually pushed to the outside? Nothing! they just kept playing the same way game after game and sure it produced a couple of wins but in the end the Sens had no answer to Quinns tactics.

Lalime was reasonably solid in most games they can't blame him because if the Ottawa coaching stff had done their home work instead of stubbornly resting on thier laurels then the series would have been (at least 4-1) to Ottawa.

Good luck Toronto, you'll need it against the flyers because Hitch is also a good tactician and players like Roenick and others will noty put in the kind of displays as Bonk and De Vries.

I have to agree. Ottawa tried to play their game and Toronto adapted to it. Case in point: Spezza. He has one move when in one on one and always goes to it.

The Sens were out coached. This includes game planning and motivating players. The one game they put traffic in front of Belfour, they won. Look at Philly and Brashear. I think Ottawa has a better team but didn't wear their playoff hat.

[powerlefty]

Jacques Martin has done an excellent job developing this team. Unfortunately what they need now is a kick in the ass and to see a coach who cares behind the bench. Not that Martin does not care, I am sure he does - he just does not LOOK like he does. Get angrry, fire a water bottle on the ice every once in a while, whine about the refs, call out a player in public occassionally, have an angry press conference, light a fire for God sake. He has taken them from nobodies to the edge of success but he does not have that extra to get them over the edge.

Bonk. Needs a heart transplant. Trade him or walk away from him in the summer during free agency - don't even make him a qualifying offer.

Bondra and deVries were chances Muckler took that didn't pan out this season (unlike last year where the acquisition of Varada and Smolinksi worked out nicely). He did not give up anything off the roster other than some prospects and draft picks. They might work out next year. At least Bondra played with some passion on the PK unlike Bonk who skated around in a daze.

Goaltending. Successful teams all have good to excellent goaltending. Lalime has been a problem since October. Prusek didn't seize the opportunity to shine when it presented itself a couple of short stints in the regular season. Get rid of them both. Bring up Emery as the backup and troll the waters for a goaltender through either free agency or trade. Muckler is to be chastized for not upgrading at the position and Martin likewise for not going to Prusek mid-season and giving him a legitimate shot at winning the job.

[Keithsguy]

Jacques Martin has done an excellent job developing this team. Unfortunately what they need now is a kick in the ass and to see a coach who cares behind the bench. Not that Martin does not care, I am sure he does - he just does not LOOK like he does. Get angrry, fire a water bottle on the ice every once in a while, whine about the refs, call out a player in public occassionally, have an angry press conference, light a fire for God sake. He has taken them from nobodies to the edge of success but he does not have that extra to get them over the edge.

Bingo. Nail on head. Will make a good assistant coach in an already successful organization or a good head coach somewhere rebuilding needs to be done.

[The Shtick]

Well, I'n not voting because you left out the most obvious choice: Eddie Belfour.

Sorry bud, but the Sens beat themselves this year. The Sens lacked inspiration in desperate times. Game 5 was a joke and they did nothing in the first half of game 6. You can shoot all the pucks you want at Belfour.... it's the actual scoring chances that count.

[dbleber]

After another solid season (and another disappionting playoff run), who should take the blame?

dbleber;
Belfour won that series and Lalime lost it! Hockey can be won or loss based on goalies. If you do not have the confidence in your keeper you will not play well. Just another questions, where is Jason Spezza? One of the great prospects of the game and they don't play him. Sometimes young blood and fresh legs is just what a tea needs for a game seven, at least he would have given it his all. I wish they would trade him and stop jerking the kid around!
Denny :reallymad

[The Shtick]

dbleber;
Belfour won that series and Lalime lost it! Hockey can be won or loss based on goalies. If you do not have the confidence in your keeper you will not play well. Just another questions, where is Jason Spezza? One of the great prospects of the game and they don't play him. Sometimes young blood and fresh legs is just what a tea needs for a game seven, at least he would have given it his all. I wish they would trade him and stop jerking the kid around!
Denny :reallymad

Spezza is indeed a good player. They kept him out because he doesn't kill penalties. Antoine Vermette is good on the kill and with the unpredictable refs, Vermette had his chance. There was simply no room for Jason Spezza. That's why Bonk has to go in my opinion.

[Big_duck]

That's why Bonk has to go in my opinion.

Poor guy getting dumped on again. I'm no Bonk lover, but there is a reason he was playing: to check the number one centre on the other team. The guy was +2 for the series and he (almost) always was playing against Sundin or Nieuwendyk. Quinn did a good job with last change last night, Bonk wasn't on the ice for any Leaf goals (and was on for Ottawa's goal).

Although he has never lived up the the offensive potential he showed in the "I", he has turned into a fine defensive player. Worth the money? probably not. Worth having on the team? Probably.

[4jag]

Best of all time is my bud Gretz, hands down, there is no point even debating it.

ESPN's hockey experts have Jagr at #21
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=5290

Of course you can have a differing opinon, but Jagr? Really? I could see how you may consider him the most offensively skilled (although I don't) but best player ever - no way.

[broken27]

Best of all time is my bud Gretz, hands down, there is no point even debating it.

ESPN's hockey experts have Jagr at #21
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=5290

Of course you can have a differing opinon, but Jagr? Really? I could see how you may consider him the most offensively skilled (although I don't) but best player ever - no way.

No point in even debating it??? That's a pretty silly statement. You don't think a goalie or defenceman could be better than Gretzky? Then again, I suppose that since ESPN has him rated at #1 (considering their pitiful hockey coverage), that's all the proof we need....

:shake

Dan

[4jag]

Of course the best ever could have been a goalie or a d-man, but it isn't.

I actually asked Kevin Stevens who he thought the best ever was when I met him at Wayne's fanatasy camp. Now if anyone is in a postion to judge it is someone who has played both with and against Gretz and Jagr, not to mention Mario too. Without hesitation his answer was the great one, 99. Period.

Forget about ESPN Dan, Gretzky provided all the proof we need.