Iron recommendations

[sensfan63]

While I may only make 20 to 25 sets of clubs a year, I will continue in the quest to try to educate anyone interested in listening, the advantages of personally fitted clubs and the disadvantages of off the rack clubs. I accept the fact that there are scores of golfers who don't want to listen or find out the truth and that is fine.

.

I never said that I was uninterested in listening. In fact, I've learned quite a bit from this forum about clubfitting.

There are some unanswered questions that I have about the whole process...perhaps when we have our match (yes, it's still on), you can educate me !!

BC MIST, you seem to have many supporters on this forum. Nobody is coming to my defence...but that's OK, we'll play for whatever you want and the winner will buy the beers afterwards.

[BC MIST]

I never said that I was uninterested in listening. My statement was a general one, not referring specifically to you, but there are some who don't want to know.

In fact, I've learned quite a bit from this forum about clubfitting.Great. So have I.

There are some unanswered questions that I have about the whole process...perhaps when we have our match (yes, it's still on), you can educate me !! Well, I may be too busy trying to take your money to talk shop, but if there is a holdup somewhere, we can talk.

BC MIST, you seem to have many supporters on this forum. Nobody is coming to my defence...but that's OK, Perhaps they are all still drowning their sorrows after last night's loss.

we'll play for whatever you want and the winner will buy the beers afterwards.
I'll check my bank account to see what I can afford to lose. If the stock market keeps going south I may have to ask for a loan.

A couple of my "supporters" I play golf with, and perhaps they think that if they suck up a little, that I will go easy on them in our money games. Never. I'm like the starving lion with a wildebeast in my sight.

[sensfan63]

[QUOTE=BC MIST
A couple of my "supporters" I play golf with, and perhaps they think that if they suck up a little, that I will go easy on them in our money games. Never. I'm like the starving lion with a wildebeast in my sight.[/QUOTE]

Wow...I tried to put my "ego and sacasm aside" and you come back with this. That's fantastic.

Please do not go "easy" on me. Let's arrange to play when the stock market is on the upswing, so I can take all of your money and not just some

[gbower]

Wow...I tried to put my "ego and sacasm aside" and you come back with this. That's fantastic.

Please do not go "easy" on me. Let's arrange to play when the stock market is on the upswing, so I can take all of your money and not just some [/QUOTE]


Boy do I want to watch this match. I was lucky to get a bit off BC MIST last Sat. but it will probably be the last time this year. Actually took a bit off some of his old friends today so now I've got a bit stashed away for next Sat.

Good luck sensfan as you'll be playing against another "EAGLE" not a "Lalime"

[TelUrMomISayThx]

Wow, this sounds quite interesting. I hope BC Mist has got the game you boys are talking about, because I remember the first game I ever played with sensfan - the easiest 66 i have ever seen. Fairways and greens all day. Until the back nine where he hooked a drive on the 14th, had to chip out to 200+ in, hit his 3rd shot to about 10-15 feet, and calmly rolled it in for his par 4. I think i shot something like a shoddy 78, but felt like it was 99.
But who knows, all this might not mean anything compared to a "club champion". :cryin

I might even cash in my GICs for this match. Sens, do you need a caddy?

[Chieflongtee]

Hopefully Gary Hill will be on the premises. :banned1

[BC MIST]

Hopefully Gary Hill will be on the premises. :banned1

Gee, it's really great to see my "supporters" provoking the opposition into a fight, without first consulting me to find out if I was interested. You will notice, too, that after they tell some lies in their attempt to intimidate the opposition, that there is no mention of supporting me financially in the event that I would lose. I say, "Put your money where your mouth is."

One supporter makes mention of a course recored 64. What they did not tell you is that this was my NET score, and that is the God's honest truth. gbower below was even a witness. Club champion? Right. How do you know it wasn't the "C" class championship? Sure, I hit the ball straight, but anyone can hit the fairway if the ball only goes 180 yards.

With my application form for the Canada Pension Plan in front of me, how is it possible for a person at my age to compete against all the young macho golfers who hit the ball 50 to 75 yards past me? Someone is trying to play me for a fool. My wife is coming home tomorrow and I can't remember where my Cialis is? In fact, I can't remember what it's for. A ciatic nerve problem? At least I have a picture of my wife so that I should be able to recognize her when she comes in the door.

Summer is a busy time for me as I have to organize the shuffleboard tournaments, the bingo and the sing song nights for the other residents of the home. Fitting in a golf game around all this work is difficult sometimes, and while I enjoy playing golf and do occasionally play for a buck or two, I am too old and too wise to respond to a sarcastic "Man, I really want a $$$ game with you and your superior clubs..." Or maybe he just wants to borrow my clubs so that he can beat someone else. Gosh. Why is everything becoming so confusing?

[sensfan63]

Gee, it's really great to see my "supporters" provoking the opposition into a fight, without first consulting me to find out if I was interested. You will notice, too, that after they tell some lies in their attempt to intimidate the opposition, that there is no mention of supporting me financially in the event that I would lose. I say, "Put your money where your mouth is."

One supporter makes mention of a course recored 64. What they did not tell you is that this was my NET score, and that is the God's honest truth. gbower below was even a witness. Club champion? Right. How do you know it wasn't the "C" class championship? Sure, I hit the ball straight, but anyone can hit the fairway if the ball only goes 180 yards.

With my application form for the Canada Pension Plan in front of me, how is it possible for a person at my age to compete against all the young macho golfers who hit the ball 50 to 75 yards past me? Someone is trying to play me for a fool. My wife is coming home tomorrow and I can't remember where my Cialis is? In fact, I can't remember what it's for. A ciatic nerve problem? At least I have a picture of my wife so that I should be able to recognize her when she comes in the door.

Summer is a busy time for me as I have to organize the shuffleboard tournaments, the bingo and the sing song nights for the other residents of the home. Fitting in a golf game around all this work is difficult sometimes, and while I enjoy playing golf and do occasionally play for a buck or two, I am too old and too wise to respond to a sarcastic "Man, I really want a $$$ game with you and your superior clubs..." Or maybe he just wants to borrow my clubs so that he can beat someone else. Gosh. Why is everything becoming so confusing?

All you really had to say was "I concede."

[dbleber]

dbleber:
Wow, I am really impressed with the great advice that this forum has given jonf on how to sit in front of a computer and act tough! Wait a minute, I think he wanted some advice on what irons he should consider buying. Great advice guys!
Denny :dissappro

[Sphere Hunter]

All you really had to say was "I concede."

Hey BC, I'll back you for $100.
I think it would be fun to watch this match and make some money at the same time.
This guy is so y he would probably have no problem giving you a few strokes.
Any course, any time. As long as you can finish the round before your eight o'clock bedtime.

Cheers.

SH

[Chieflongtee]

dbleber:
Wow, I am really impressed with the great advice that this forum has given jonf on how to sit in front of a computer and act tough! Wait a minute, I think he wanted some advice on what irons he should consider buying. Great advice guys!
Denny :dissappro

Denny. Relax. There is nothing wrong with a little ribbing. Do you actually believe this match is ever going to take place? I believe jonf got his questions answered in previous replies. And as far as sensfan63 he posted his reply right after the Sens lost to the leafs. I take it that he was very frustrated at the time. Hopefully let's just hope he does not have to wait 63 years for the Sens to bring the cup home. I wonder if BC MIST is a leaf fan.

[Andru]

Lazzal's right about the above and McCurbin's comments are revealing, too. However, I wonder if L still believes that the NBP and S1 of a steel shaft are 180* apart.

While I may only make 20 to 25 sets of clubs a year, I will continue in the quest to try to educate anyone interested in listening, the advantages of personally fitted clubs and the disadvantages of off the rack clubs. I accept the fact that there are scores of golfers who don't want to listen or find out the truth and that is fine.

I take pride in my work and know that the clubs that leave my place suit the golfer and will perform as well as or better than anything purchased in a retail store. For the most part the OEM's produce very good heads, however, it is the shaft assembly that needs a huge increase in quality control, in order for golfers to get what they pay for. Does it not make sense for you to get the best fit if you are going to shell out your hard earned money?

Andre: Thanks for your help and support.

I'm sure you do great work BC_MIST. The pecker contest I can do without. You win you're the greatest. Yeah for BC Hip Hip Hurray!!

I'm kidding! So chill-out. Yes to all your questions I hope. I had my shafts redone with a clubfitter last year and I've never played better. but youre doing a good job at selling me on a set of fitted clubs from you.

If I don't break par by June. I'll be calling.

[sensfan63]

.Hey BC, I'll back you for $100.
I think it would be fun to watch this match and make some money at the same time.
This guy is so y he would probably have no problem giving you a few strokes.
Any course, any time. As long as you can finish the round before your eight o'clock bedtime.

Cheers.

SH

y? I don't think I was the one to bring my scorecard to the computer and tell everyone how well i played yesterday.

Sphere Hunter, i don't think BC MIST will agree to "any course, any time." That would be silly. Also being silly is your comment about bedtimes...you don't know me, I could be in my 40s or 50s for all you know. Get a grip. We're having fun taking shots at each other in the comfort of anonymity.

By the way, will that $100 be cash or cheque?

[Andru]

I respect people's right to play whatever they want, however, I obviously object to inaccurate, misleading statements like this: While some believe the only way to get custom fitting is with knock offs.

I know that's why I wrote it. But your statement( My interpretation of your statement ) that ALL OEM clubs that are purchased in retail stores are fitted by amateurs and manufactured by monkeys is also misleading and inaccurate.

[BC MIST]

I know that's why I wrote it. But your statement( My interpretation of your statement ) that ALL OEM clubs that are purchased in retail stores are fitted by amateurs and manufactured by monkeys is also misleading and inaccurate.

Below is what I did say so I am not sure how you can interpret that as my suggesting what you have written above. You can take what I say literally. Frequently,(but not always) many (but not all) OEM's are poorly assembled.

Frequently, many OEM's are poorly assembled. This observation is made based on disassembling several sets, and actually seeing the weaknesses and sometimes being able to measure them(frequency). Why would anyone pay $1000 for an average fit or non-fitted set of clubs when you could pay $600 for a better fit set?

We all know that regardless of who assembles the clubs, how effective the clubs will be is greatly determined by who is swinging them. There are golfers who play well with poorly assembled clubs and those who play poorly with the best. However, the probability of poor shots with good swings should be less if the quality of the shafts used and the workmanship put into the assembly, is high. OEM's are mass produced and are less likely to be assembled in the same manner as would a good clubfitter.

It takes me 2.5 to 4 hours to assemble a set of 8 irons. This includes weighing all components, spining and marking the NBP of each shaft, measuring the frequency of each shaft before assembly and then sorting them by frequency, frequency matching each club along the NBP, to the predetermined and mutually agreed upon slope, the assembly, cutting to length, swingweighting and cleaning. There is no possible way that any OEM does all of this, however, IMO, for those of you who buy OEM's, don't you feel that this should be the minimum that you should get for the money you pay?

Now, no where did I say that OEM's are assembled by amateurs or manufactured by monkeys so be careful as to how you interpret my words.

[Andru]

The so called "custom fitting" programmes that the OEM's offer are really quite amusing. Perhaps some result in a good fit, but unfortunately, many do not.

If any of these OEM programmes include the following, you are getting a good fit.

Do the OEM's provide you with a flex appropriate to your swing speed, and I am not talking "Regular" versus "Stiff?"

Does the shaft selection include your rate of acceleration from the top of the backswing? It should be considered.

Is the trajectory of your shot pattern considered when selecting a shaft?

Are the shafts frequency matched on a frequency analyzer? Dynamic Golds are not frequency matched.

Are you measured to determine the proper length of shafts for the length of your arms?

Are you measured for grip size?

Are you given the option of having the clubs' swingweight increased of decreased, if you wish?

Does the retailer check the lies of the irons dynamically and make any adjustments free of charge?

Well. Yes and no. You've made your point clear. But If I take your list of clubfitting fundamentals. You have some elements that really are available at almost all Retail stores. AKA, Ping , Titleist , and Ben Hogan ( dynamic clubfitting sessions )

All of the above were completed. I've been through all of those fitting sessions. I can't answer for the manufacturing of the product. I wasn't there. Assuming that a club fitting would not include a lie angle test is pretty much saying the fitters are incompetent. I know people buy stuff off the rack. But you made specific reference to the actual fitting of the clubs in the quote.

So while my interpretation may be a little extreme I don't think it's that far off.

I believe in custom fitting. I think the problem you have is really assembly line. That I cannot debate. I have no knowledge of this. But dynamic fitting. I've done a few and they have lasted over an hour and they are very thorough. It sounds like If I were to get fitted by you I would have no excuse on the golf course. I don't know if I like that.

Cheers

[dbleber]

Denny. Relax. There is nothing wrong with a little ribbing. Do you actually believe this match is ever going to take place? I believe jonf got his questions answered in previous replies. And as far as sensfan63 he posted his reply right after the Sens lost to the leafs. I take it that he was very frustrated at the time. Hopefully let's just hope he does not have to wait 63 years for the Sens to bring the cup home. I wonder if BC MIST is a leaf fan.

dbleber:
I agree that there is nothing wrong with ribbing, but why not do it in the off topic section? I just find frustrating when you are looking through a thread and you have to scroll through 2 pages of "ribbing" to find any info on the original thread.
Denny

[BC MIST]

I believe in custom fitting. I think the problem you have is really assembly line. That I cannot debate. I have no knowledge of this. But dynamic fitting. I've done a few and they have lasted over an hour and they are very thorough. It sounds like If I were to get fitted by you I would have no excuse on the golf course. I don't know if I like that. Cheers

If you were fitted by a professional, meaning someone who does this for a living, and having been through dynamic fitting sessions previously, then I am sure that you know what specifications work for you, based on experience and the recommendations of the person doing the fitting. Frankly, it is unlikely that I can add very much to what you already know. Like Andre, who provides excellent information about clubmaking, I am a hobbyist clubmaker who assembles clubs between rounds and who reads a lot to try to be informed. If you have found a clubfitter that you trust, then by all means stay with him. The clubs that were perhaps altered or reshafted for you probably ensure that your weapons are better fitted than those that the majority of golfers have.

You are correct. My biggest beef is with the OEM assembly process. I am sure that the clubfitter that you went to did a good job of putting the clubs together, rather than just following the traditional 1/2" tip trimming procedure. Spining first, matching shafts by frequency, or deflection(NF2), should be done to ensure consistency from one club to another. This I do, too. However, if he did not, then perhaps it should be considered the next time clubs are made for you.

[Andru]

If you were fitted by a professional, meaning someone who does this for a living, and having been through dynamic fitting sessions previously, then I am sure that you know what specifications work for you, based on experience and the recommendations of the person doing the fitting. Frankly, it is unlikely that I can add very much to what you already know. Like Andre, who provides excellent information about clubmaking, I am a hobbyist clubmaker who assembles clubs between rounds and who reads a lot to try to be informed. If you have found a clubfitter that you trust, then by all means stay with him. The clubs that were perhaps altered or reshafted for you probably ensure that your weapons are better fitted than those that the majority of golfers have.

You are correct. My biggest beef is with the OEM assembly process. I am sure that the clubfitter that you went to did a good job of putting the clubs together, rather than just following the traditional 1/2" tip trimming procedure. Spining first, matching shafts by frequency, or deflection(NF2), should be done to ensure consistency from one club to another. This I do, too. However, if he did not, then perhaps it should be considered the next time clubs are made for you.

I have no idea what he did. I just know what feels right and keeps my swing in good rhythm. Whether it's spinned or the tip trimming procedure. I didn't know to ask. I was commenting on the fitting process. As to your response. I'll assume 'Not Interested'.

[Big Johnny69]

Totally off topic and brought back from way back. But I have to ask. Does anyone know if BC MIST and sensfan63 play this match? And if so, what was the outcome. I'm sure it would have been something to see.

[jonf]

No idea about the match, but I can give the update on the original topic (which is clearly everyone's primary concern ). The SMT heads (320 knockoffs, if I recall) with Stepless Mercury Savage shafts that I got from the Chief a couple of years ago are working out great - absolutely love them.

[Big Johnny69]

SMT? I thought they just started making iron heads last year. And they aren't 320 lookalikes. Anyways, glad they are working for you. But still want to know if these guys played.