Sure is quiet in Sens land...

[mberube]

Sorry, but its not like i can go out and play for the sens (ps, i could have stopped goal 2 and 3). And believe me, I'd love to be in muckler's position right now. Unfortunately, that's not gonna happen.

Fortunately!!

I would take all the players that you don't want and putt them in the habs roster.

[mberube]

Ted Nolan would be a perfect fit. Him and Muckler made for a good duo.

You are forgetting that J Martin is the reason that you see good hockey in Ottawa today.

[The Shtick]

You are forgetting that J Martin is the reason that you see good hockey in Ottawa today.

Actually, he isn't. Rob Bryden, Eugene Melnyk, heck... even Rick Dudley made hockey good here!

[mberube]

Actually, he isn't. Rob Bryden, Eugene Melnyk, heck... even Rick Dudley made hockey good here!

Melnyk has not been there long so scratch him!

Pierre Gauthier would have been a good argument! Getting talented player to fill up a team is one thing. Make a team out of it is something else. Ask Sather!
Before Martin Ottawa was very week.

The only coach that fits that I can see is Joel Quennville!

[The Shtick]

Melnyk has not been there long so scratch him!

Pierre Gauthier would have been a good argument! Getting talented player to fill up a team is one thing. Make a team out of it is something else. Ask Sather!
Before Martin Ottawa was very week.

The only coach that fits that I can see is Joel Quennville!

All I'm trying to say is that the GM's for Ottawa got the team to where they are today. Good scouting and good draft picks made them a contender. I think that Jacques should move on. There is another thread for that.

[jonf]

You are forgetting that J Martin is the reason that you see good hockey in Ottawa today.

I don't understand why people can't get it through their heads that Ottawa only plays good hockey during the season. Jacques Martin is also a big part of the reason why ottawa sucks during the playoffs. He's not a motivator. you need a hard-ass who will bench a top line guy when he isn't contributing. Sometimes players need a wake up call, and martin is not willing to bench players. You can't win in the playoffs with a coach who isn't willing to piss of an individual for the good of the team.

[mberube]

All I'm trying to say is that the GM's for Ottawa got the team to
where they are today. Good scouting and good draft picks made them a contender. I think that Jacques should move on. There is another thread for that.

Changing the coach is always the easy thing to do but not the smart one unless the coach and players have a bad relationship witch I doubt is the problem in Ottawa.

I am all for changing the coach if and only if the replacement is a good coach. Lets not stick another stiff in the back of the bench for two year and then change him again! It's to easy!

[broken27]

No good candidates? What are you saying? what the sens need is a new type of coach, an iron fisted guy who lets the players know when they suck. Iron Mike Keenan would be a perfect fit, or the long absent Ted Nolan, who brought the sabres to respectability.

It's not like this is the first time they've come up short in the playoffs. Sure, so have the leafs, but you know what the leafs do when they fail? They go out and make changes to their team, you know, try to improve. What a novel idea.

To address your first point, Ted Nolan is not in the NHL for a reason. Firstly, you can SAY he brought Buffalo to respectability, but that's nonsense. Remember Dominik Hasek? Nolan's not a bad coach, but wouldn't fit in Ottawa AT ALL. Mike Keenan couldn't work for John Muckler, so you can forget that too. Maybe Joel Quenneville?

For your second point, what changes have the Leafs made? Adding Leetch and Francis? Those are pretty much the only noteworthy moves they've made in the last 3 seasons, and Toronto will still not win the Cup.

Dan

[Big_duck]

Ted Nolan would be a perfect fit. Him and Muckler made for a good duo.

Are you nuts! who do you think go Nolan blackballed???

[Big_duck]

Leafs =

[Hank Hill]

Wow I must have been asleep for longer than I thought, did the leaves (sic) win the cup. Who did they play in the final?

[The Shtick]

Are you nuts! who do you think go Nolan blackballed???

Yep, I'm pretty nuts! I don't care who coaches the Sens next year (or the year after). As long as they do something about addressing the issue.

[el tigre]

I don't understand why people can't get it through their heads that Ottawa only plays good hockey during the season.

I don't think you can reach the 7th game of the conference final like they did last year without playing good hockey.

Jacques Martin is also a big part of the reason why ottawa sucks during the playoffs. He's not a motivator. you need a hard-ass who will bench a top line guy when he isn't contributing. Sometimes players need a wake up call, and martin is not willing to bench players.

Hmmm, Spezza was benched in favour of Vermette, and regulars Simpson and Lescyshyn (sp?) were benched in favour of Pothier and Volchenkov. I'm sure these players were not happy about it. Sure I think Spezza would have played better than Bonk, but Vermette and Volchenkov played well.

It's the same old story - if you win you're a genius (Pat Quinn, c'mon!!) and if you lose you're a bum, no matter what else happens.

[sensfan63]

The Sens, however, had no adversity to battle through, and played a terrible final game. It's not like this is the first time they've come up short in the playoffs. Sure, so have the leafs, but you know what the leafs do when they fail? They go out and make changes to their team, you know, try to improve. What a novel idea.

jonf:

Comments like these are the reason it's difficult to a) attend Senators games, and b) watch the Sens play in a bar or anywhere there are multitudes of "fans."

Saying that the Sens had no adversity is idiotic, in my opinion. They had to go through a goaltender who was standing on his head. Yes, it's their job to put the puck in the net, but this time you can't fault their effort or willpower or passion. They got beat by Ed Belfour. They did not play a "terrible final game." Anyone who would say that did not watch it. Belfour made about 6 or 7 saves that any other goalie would not have made. Scoring chances were in the low 20s, if I'm not mistaken.

mberube, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Being a "fan" does not mean that you go out and bash players after they don't play as well as you think they can.

[The Shtick]

jonf:

Comments like these are the reason it's difficult to a) attend Senators games, and b) watch the Sens play in a bar or anywhere there are multitudes of "fans."

Saying that the Sens had no adversity is idiotic, in my opinion. They had to go through a goaltender who was standing on his head. Yes, it's their job to put the puck in the net, but this time you can't fault their effort or willpower or passion. They got beat by Ed Belfour. They did not play a "terrible final game." Anyone who would say that did not watch it. Belfour made about 6 or 7 saves that any other goalie would not have made. Scoring chances were in the low 20s, if I'm not mistaken.

mberube, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Being a "fan" does not mean that you go out and bash players after they don't play as well as you think they can.

So, are you implying that the Sens do nothing to "shake things up" and repeat this story yet again??

[mberube]

So, are you implying that the Sens do nothing to "shake things up" and repeat this story yet again??

If the Sens were beaten in the conference final or the cup final you would probably have the same arguments. If they had won the Cup, Martin would be a genius.

Last years champions were eliminated in the first round this year and if it wasn’t for Burns having cancer, Devils fans would be asking for somebody’s head.

You are a fan if you stick to your team win or lose and not spit on it when you have a chance. Be a team player.

[The Shtick]

If the Sens were beaten in the conference final or the cup final you would probably have the same arguments. If they had won the Cup, Martin would be a genius.

Last years champions were eliminated in the first round this year and if it wasn’t for Burns having cancer, Devils fans would be asking for somebody’s head.

You are a fan if you stick to your team win or lose and not spit on it when you have a chance. Be a team player.

I'm a huge fan.... but it's the same old story over and over again. Something's gotta change.... no more "if this" or "if that".

[sensfan63]

So, are you implying that the Sens do nothing to "shake things up" and repeat this story yet again??

No...

I am of the opinion that 8 years is long enough for Jacques Martin. I totally respect what he has done with this team, but let's be honest, it's time for a change. A lot of players are of this sentiment as well (hello Havlat and Alfredsson).

And of course the goaltending has to be addressed. I was a supporter of Lalime all season, and of the belief that he would shine in the playoffs. Well, he didn't shine in games 1 through 6, but he was solid. Unfortunately, he let the softies in last night. For anyone who says "shame on Muckler for not trying to get a goalie," well, he DID try to get a goalie, but the asking price was pretty steep. Kolzig and Witt, for Havlat, Prusek and a draft pick. We offered Vermette, Prusek, and a draft pick. We couldn't get the deal done.

Then again, who is to say that Kolzig would have done any better? Let's face it...who most believe is the best goalie in the world (Brodeur) got ousted in the first round, and maybe the second-best (with kudos to Theodore and Luongo and Kiprusoff) beat us even though we dominated.

So after rambling for a while, Shtick, I'll say that we DO need a shake-up...coaching and goaltending...and a few player moves here and there...

[mberube]

I'm a huge fan.... but it's the same old story over and over again. Something's gotta change.... no more "if this" or "if that".

So, the only way you would have been happy is If they went all the way and nothing less. Man that is pretty miserable don't you think!

Poor you! You will probably have this felling for years to come!!!

[Andru]

I'm not sure what issues you are talking about about, but let's skip that.

Absolutely, goaltending in Ottawa is an issue. It has been all season. I'm a fan of hockey first and foremost. I don't like the Leafs style of hockey, I don't think it adds value to the game. I don't particularly like the Flyers either. Given the two teams, I feel that the Flyers have the stronger team. The Leafs are old, but the have Belfour, and Belfour won the series against Ottawa. Looking at the teams, and the coaches, Roenick, Primeau and Brashear are going to make life miserable for Belfour. Flyers will win in the end against an aging team with questionable defence beyond Leech and McCabe.

Ferguson will make more changes and you will start to see the Leafs play with some skill in the years to come. Quinn will have to go too.

The issues thing was a joke because I know you were probably pretty upset about losing to the leafs again. The only difference is I wouldn't walk out start bashing the team that just beat my team because that would make my team really really bad.

The senators have been a defensive system, trapping team since martin showed up. Is that the kind of Hockey you like. Geez at least use the Bolts as an example. They're the only team in the NHL that tries to score on the rush.

Hold on as second. Pat Quinn has been fighting the defensive game since he started coaching in Toronto. Toronto has never played defensively. They did it because they lost Sundin, Nolan, and they have more operating at 70%. It's eastern conference hockey. It sucks but so does losing.

Of course you're going to pick the flyers. I wouldn't imagine Sens fans doing anything different. Hopefully the leafs beat the flyers. Then all the sens fans will become Tampa Bay Fans. The band Wagon for Tampa is huge jump aboard now!!

So far. Leach and francis have been awesome pick ups. Bondra and De Vries have been terrible. looks like the "OLD Guys" came through in the end and beat the best team in the NHL in 7. They took everything Ottawa could throw at them.

[The Shtick]

No...

I am of the opinion that 8 years is long enough for Jacques Martin. I totally respect what he has done with this team, but let's be honest, it's time for a change. A lot of players are of this sentiment as well (hello Havlat and Alfredsson).

And of course the goaltending has to be addressed. I was a supporter of Lalime all season, and of the belief that he would shine in the playoffs. Well, he didn't shine in games 1 through 6, but he was solid. Unfortunately, he let the softies in last night. For anyone who says "shame on Muckler for not trying to get a goalie," well, he DID try to get a goalie, but the asking price was pretty steep. Kolzig and Witt, for Havlat, Prusek and a draft pick. We offered Vermette, Prusek, and a draft pick. We couldn't get the deal done.

Then again, who is to say that Kolzig would have done any better? Let's face it...who most believe is the best goalie in the world (Brodeur) got ousted in the first round, and maybe the second-best (with kudos to Theodore and Luongo and Kiprusoff) beat us even though we dominated.

So after rambling for a while, Shtick, I'll say that we DO need a shake-up...coaching and goaltending...and a few player moves here and there...

I agree 100%.

mberube:

I AM happy with the Sens. I WOULD be happier if they made some smart moves. Remember, this is only my opinion... that's all.

[Andru]

To address your first point, Ted Nolan is not in the NHL for a reason. Firstly, you can SAY he brought Buffalo to respectability, but that's nonsense. Remember Dominik Hasek? Nolan's not a bad coach, but wouldn't fit in Ottawa AT ALL. Mike Keenan couldn't work for John Muckler, so you can forget that too. Maybe Joel Quenneville?

For your second point, what changes have the Leafs made? Adding Leetch and Francis? Those are pretty much the only noteworthy moves they've made in the last 3 seasons, and Toronto will still not win the Cup.

Dan

That's not true. The leafs moved Green a guy who took a lot of penalties. Darcy Tucker has since played much better, They picked up Belfour after losing Cujo, Niewendyk, Stajen, Ken Klee, KIlgar has been a great pick up. So yes they have made som pretty nice moves.

I get where you're going with the Global thing. I was just pointing out that I've found a Canadian angle to support. If not the team then the city.

[mberube]

Then all the sens fans will become Tampa Bay Fans. The band Wagon for Tampa is huge jump aboard now!!

Wo wo wo correction, Habs fan!!!!

[Big_duck]

I agree 100%.

mberube:

I AM happy with the Sens. I WOULD be happier if they made some smart moves. Remember, this is only my opinion... that's all.

I beginning to think that a coach who played a key position gives his player in that position to much slack. My evidence is only anecdotal and local, but just look at Martin (ex-goalie) with Lalime and Paopao (ex-QB) with Crawley.

[mberube]

That's not true. The leafs moved Green a guy who took a lot of penalties. Darcy Tucker has since played much better, They picked up Belfour after losing Cujo, Niewendyk, Stajen, Ken Klee, KIlgar has been a great pick up. So yes they have made som pretty nice moves.

Kilgar? You have got to be kidding me! He has been a huge disappointment everywhere he played! I do agree with you on Niewendyk, Stajen, Ken Klee.

[Michael]

Kilgar? You have got to be kidding me! He has been a huge disappointment everywhere he played! I do agree with you on Niewendyk, Stajen, Ken Klee.

Kilger has always been a mystery to me, a big guy who can skate and he does have some talent. When he was with Montreal, I thought he was going to be something special, but things just didn't work out for him. Think he spend a bit of time on the injured list as well. The Leafs took a chance on him and it was nice to see him score a big goal last night.

GO LEAFS GO

[jonf]

I'm a huge fan.... but it's the same old story over and over again. Something's gotta change.... no more "if this" or "if that".

Thank you. It's great to finally find someone who agrees with me on this stuff.

[Colby]

The issues thing was a joke because I know you were probably pretty upset about losing to the leafs again. The only difference is I wouldn't walk out start bashing the team that just beat my team because that would make my team really really bad.

That's flawed logic. We lost because of a goaltender, one on both ends. If you took off the blue coloured glasses, you would realize how flawed the Leafs are. That showed up when Belfour was out and the Leafs had the choice of losing with Kidd or losing with Talqvuist (sp?)

The senators have been a defensive system, trapping team since martin showed up. Is that the kind of Hockey you like. Geez at least use the Bolts as an example. They're the only team in the NHL that tries to score on the rush.

Huh? The Sens had the number one power play percentage-wise and in goals scored for the regular season, and were the number one scoring team in the NHL. How is that a defensive-style team? The only time they have to play a defensive game is when the play the clutch and grab Leafs. And I prefer the style of Tampa Bay. The Western conference plays that way all the time! The Vancouver-Calgary series was tremendous hockey, much better than the Battle of Ontario.

Hold on as second. Pat Quinn has been fighting the defensive game since he started coaching in Toronto. Toronto has never played defensively. They did it because they lost Sundin, Nolan, and they have more operating at 70%. It's eastern conference hockey. It sucks but so does losing.

Before I moved to Ottawa, I was born and raised in Vancouver and I had to live through the Pat Quinn era there also. He likes players like he was when he played. Big, strong, slow. Aki Berg, Wade Belak, etc. Just like in Vancouver. Gerold Diduck, Dana Murzyn, et al. Toronto plays a defensive, jump on the player restrictive game. Watch when there is a dump in and another player goes to get the puck. He's interfered with all the way into the corner. It's a travesty.

Of course you're going to pick the flyers. I wouldn't imagine Sens fans doing anything different. Hopefully the leafs beat the flyers. Then all the sens fans will become Tampa Bay Fans. The band Wagon for Tampa is huge jump aboard now!!

I am foremost a fan of hockey and the style the Leafs play is terrible. The only way to change it is to get rid of Quinn and let Ferguson bring in the skill it requires. Also as long as Don Cherry keeps preaching the goon style of hockey that appeals to some fans, it will be hard to change. I can't wait for fighting to get banned. Maybe Cherry will just quit. I'm glad Montreal beat his Bruins with skill. As for jumping on the Tampa bandwagon, I would much rather see them or Montreal reach the cup final. Having a team from the East with speed and skill in the cup finals would maybe have some positive changes, losing this crappy hockey that I've had to put up with teams in the East. Toronto used to be in the West, but couldn't handle the skill level there

So far. Leach and francis have been awesome pick ups. Bondra and De Vries have been terrible. looks like the "OLD Guys" came through in the end and beat the best team in the NHL in 7. They took everything Ottawa could throw at them.

I agree. Ferguson's moves have been good for the Leafs. They have elevated the skill level of the team. It's also a stop gap until some of the younger guys can be developed through the system. De Vries has been terrible since the trade. Too bad, there wa lots of upside. I guess for some, the Ranger work ethic remains. And it wasn't the "Old Guys". A young guy, Lalime, let in three goals he should have stopped. If he was in proper position, Kilger's shot should have been stopped. Instead he dropped like he always does and in it goes. As for goals two and three, they were just sad. Lalime has probably played his last game in a Sens jersey. The team couldn't bring it from there. And it was actually Belfour that took everything that Ottawa threw at the Leafs. Probably any other goaltender and the series was over long before Game 7

My choice for cheering for the Flyers is that hopefully the Leafs management will realize that Quinn's antiquated style, which is much different from Ferguson's choice of style, will not get them anywhere where it counts, that is, to win a Cup. And he will be gone, the Leafs can then start replacing some of the old pylons and get some skill. It will make a better league and conference in the long run.

[Andru]

Kilgar? You have got to be kidding me! He has been a huge disappointment everywhere he played! I do agree with you on Niewendyk, Stajen, Ken Klee.

Kilgar has been a good addition for the leafs. They paid nothing for him by picking him up on waivers. He scored a prety big goal last nigh with the domi and reichel line. He's been positive for the leafs.

As far as the Habs bandwagon. Sure. You could jump on that one. You have to respect a team that fights back from a 3 -1 deficit.

[jonf]

people keep saying how we weren't beaten by the leafs, we were beaten by belfour. Who really cares. All that matters is that we lost. Stop making excuses that belfour played to well. Of course he's gonna play well, but he wasn't fantastic. We couldn't put the puck past him, that's the bottom line. That means that we lost to the leafs, not just belfour. They capitalized on their chances, we didn't.