Citizen Lineup 2009

[jeffc]

I see both sides of the coin but I have to admit, I really enjoy playing there. The greens don't bother me a bit, I look at it as a challenge and there are definitely some sucker pins in spots or spots it is really difficult to get it close.

Funny story, I was playing there with Paulio and Mattchew and was commenting on how difficult it was to hit the green on 5 east when the pin is top left and the wind is usually behind you. Lo and behold, Paulio hits a great shot and when we can't find it, we look in the cup and there it is, for an eagle 2.

[marcf]

I agree with everything you have said...I'm done writing about it. Will deal with it in person in July.

FINITO!!

Maybe I sound like a sunday afternoon soundbite from someone who shot a bad round, but so be it.

I have played many different courses and I have played SB a fair bit (estimate at least 40 times), especially when it first opened, and to me (as I said in my post) "IN MY HONEST OPINION" some of the greens at SB are unreasonably unfair. I'm sorry but when you absolutely CANNOT hold a green with a well struck wedge on a par-5, there is a problem.

Just look at what they were forced to do a few years back. There used to be 4 zones on each green for pin placements (on the scorecard), now there are only three I believe (it's been a while since I played there admittedly -- it might be down to 4 from 6?). There just are not enough places to put the pins because of the severity of many of the slopes.

No offense intended either, but when playing a casual Saturday round, repeated "bad bounces " (aka good design to some other's) are one thing. In a competitive round they are completely another. Which, as Marc mentioned, is why many Citizen players have criticized the choice of SB in the past, myself included.

I am more than willing to take the blame for me hitting a bad shot. Happens more often than I like. But I shouldn't have to put up with what I consider some poor design decisions on top of it.

By 2 cents. I'm done on this one, it's all be said before...

[GarthM]

I agree with everything you have said...I'm done writing about it. Will deal with it in person in July.

FINITO!!

My thoughts exactly bud!!!


Ok now I'm really done!!

[mjf]

I'm sorry but when you absolutely CANNOT hold a green with a well struck wedge on a par-5, there is a problem.

I'm curious... which green are you referring to?

[mjf]

To add to the discussion (or perhaps detract from it), I think some (many?) of the greens at Kanata Lakes are every bit as wonky as the ones at Stonebridge.

[quinner]

I'm curious... which green are you referring to?

I think he's referring to the first par 5 on the course that's across the street from the clubhouse.

[mjf]

I think he's referring to the first par 5 on the course that's across the street from the clubhouse.

Hmmm... I'll admit that's not an easy green, but I'm pretty confident I've hit it with just about every club in my bag from the 3-hybrid down to the 60* wedge.

Perhaps it was more difficult (firmer?) in the early days of the course.

[Paulio]

Funny story, I was playing there with Paulio and Mattchew and was commenting on how difficult it was to hit the green on 5 east when the pin is top left and the wind is usually behind you. Lo and behold, Paulio hits a great shot and when we can't find it, we look in the cup and there it is, for an eagle 2.

Yeah, that was a pretty easy shot...

[jeffc]

Hmmm... I'll admit that's not an easy green, but I'm pretty confident I've hit it with just about every club in my bag from the 3-hybrid down to the 60* wedge.

Perhaps it was more difficult (firmer?) in the early days of the course.

I would agree that its not an easy green but I have not problem holding it or any other green there. I have even eagled that hole though I may have been playing the green tee blocks that day.

[LobWedge]

I've commented in the past that SB's greens were too severe, but I'm going to clarify that a bit.

While the greens themselves can be a challenge at the best of times, especially when the conditions are hot and dry, my main issue is not with the zones on each green. Many good courses have distinct zones that divide the greens up into separate target areas and offer a variety of pin placements. My issue with SB greens is the severity of the transition areas between those zones, along with the fact that the greens are too small on average to accomodate these drastic elevation changes.

[BC MIST]

"IN MY HONEST OPINION" some of the greens at SB are unreasonably unfair.

Depending on green softness, if a green is FAIR, then a ball hit to it will: (a) stop it within reason of where you hit it, and (b) from that spot the player will have at least a chance to make the putt.

A player who hits a shot above the hole and when he putts, sees the ball accelerate past the hole, possibly run off the green and down the fairway into a drainage grate, is playing a green that is UNFAIR, read stupid. The element of skill goes way down and the element of luck there will be grossly out of proportion.

Hitting to a spot on a green that is less than ideal should make the next stroke a real challenge - FAIR, but not impossible - UNFAIR. I don't understand the mindset of those who think that a shot, hit to the "wrong" spot on a green leaving an impossible shot, is golf. However, the first three courses of the tournament will provide these with more than a few impossible shots, as the mentality of the architects is similar. Those who get to play Rivermead with see the intelligent difference in design, one that will be very obvious. Tough, but fair.

[mberube]

Just received my Flagstick e-notice and the course lineups are there.

Men:
June 30 - Tuesday - Kanata
July 16 - Thursday - Stonebridge
July 23 - Thursday - Marshes
July 24 - Friday - Rivermead

WOW! First two rounds are going to be very hard to score. I’m guessing the first cut scores will be higher then usual. Is it from the gold or blue Tees at Kanata?

Mike

[mberube]

Not to get bogged down in the whole "SB has ridiculous greens" but the problem IMHO is that you can hit a good shot and get severely penalized by missing by a few feet.

Can it be any worst then HP?

[jvincent]

WOW! First two rounds are going to be very hard to score. I’m guessing the first cut scores will be higher then usual. Is it from the gold or blue Tees at Kanata?

Mike

At all the courses I've played it's been a mix of blue and gold so I would expect the same at Kanata.

[davevandyk]

not sure if this has been covered already, but what is the price of the tourney and when does the sign-up open, or has it already opened?

[jvincent]

IIRC it was $150 last year.

The Flagstick website will have the entry form once it's available. I just checked and it's not there yet.

[quinner]

What kind of handicap do you need for the Citizen? I mean to do well not to enter.

[bbad]

the guys who do well in this tourney, are usually legit < 2 handicaps...

[mberube]

What kind of handicap do you need for the Citizen? I mean to do well not to enter.

The limit is usually around 7 to get in if I’m not mistaken.

Mike

[jvincent]

The entry limit is 8. The cutoff usually ends up being somewhere around 7 based on the field.

The guys who usually end up winning are typically scratch or + handicaps.

[quinner]

For the guys who enter who are 4+ do you enter because you like the competition or do you feel that you might get lucky?

[mberube]

It’s a bit like a NationWide tour player getting an invite to play in an event where Tiger and the top 50 in the world are playing. Competing is what pumps the adrenaline.

[quinner]

Is it the handicap or index that's 7. I have an index of 7.4 right now.

[mberube]

Index. At 7.4 you should get in but it all depends on the quality of the entries.

[Kilroy]

In Canada its called a Handicap Factor not an index.

[mberube]

Given the two choices that Quinner gave, it’s more an index “US” (Handicap factor “CDN”) then a Handicap. A Handicap is calculated from the course difficulty with the players index “US” (Handicap Factor “CDN”).

[jvincent]

For the guys who enter who are 4+ do you enter because you like the competition or do you feel that you might get lucky?

Like mberube said, it's about competing against the best.

Real tournament play is VERY different from playing a round with your buddies. I remember the first year watching the guy in the group in front of me hitting 3 (or 4?) balls off the first tee. That's serious nerves.

My goal (6.2) is to make the cut to the third round. If I catch lightning in a bottle I could in theory make it to the fourth round. Hasn't happened yet.

[quinner]

No I completely agree. I am thinking about trying to play but I don't know if I have enough holidays. Are you guaranteed two rounds and then the cut? I suppose to could just plan on the first two rounds (assuming I get in) and use sick days for any of the others.

[quinner]

In Canada its called a Handicap Factor not an index.

Ahhh Tomato , Tomahto....

[BC MIST]

Ahhh Tomato , Tomahto....

Nope. Copyright laws.