Casual Government Work

[jonf]

I know this is a long shot, but it is worth a try. I'm looking for work with the federal government right now, and getting very frustrated. I am a recent university graduate with a stellar academic record, but because I have no professional experience, I have virtually no hope of finding work through the Public Service website. Essentially, my lack of experience is getting me screened out of jobs with even the most trivial of qualifications, because it is all done electronically. If you can't tick all the boxes, you might as well not bother trying. I'm not about to lie in hopes of fooling someone, so I can't see my fortunes changing anytime soon.

As far as I can tell, my best hope at this point is to hope for some casual work and get some experience that I can then use to apply for more permanent work. I'm hoping someone on here might have some connections to someone who is hiring, can put in a good word somewhere, or can even just give me a bit of advice about getting my foot in the door. I know that if I can do that I will do a great job in whatever position I am put in, but I need help to get that opportunity. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated, and I would be more than happy to provide more information about myself.

Thanks very much,

Jon

[Weazl]

Why not start through a staffing agency like Quantum for example? Many times they will get you a decent job without a definitive end date, however they do take a cut of course. They will help you gain the experience you need. I would definitely try it.

Also, it will help if you know what you want to do, and if you're bilingual.

Cheers,

[John]

That's what I was going to say and don't limit yourself to just the government. Look Private as well.

[justsomeguy]

There was another thread on this last week Jon. Getting hired directly by a government department without professional experience is virtually impossible - especially if you're not bilingual. Your best bet is through a personnel agency - there are A TON of them in this town. Go to the big job boards and you will see lots of government contract work through them.

[jonf]

Ya, I have also signed up with a few staffing agencies. At the moment they seem only to be looking for people with previous government experience, and existing security clearance.

[Weazl]

Keep trying. You will get in eventually. Someone, at some point will take a chance onsomeone with no experience. personally, I like it sometimes as they do not bring their bad habits or old ways into my workplace.

Cheers,

[John]

Obviously keep your eye on workopolis.com, www.jobbank.gc.ca and www.jobs.gc.ca and something will come up. What kind of work are you looking for exactly?

[Hacker]

You will want to be glued to this site.........

www.jobs-emplois.gc.ca

[jonf]

Does anybody know if there's a way to go through the security clearance and bilingual testing processes without being in a job competition? I know that for the jobs posted on the public service commisions website they will do the testing when the time comes, but the staffing firms seem to prefer people with existing clearance. Is there anyway I can start the security screening process?

[Hacker]

According to this - NO to the security clearance

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsf-fsct/330-60-eng.asp

But if you were to a Temp Help Agency they would get you screened......

[Weazl]

Like hacker said get it done at an agency.

[Nat Williams]

According to this - NO to the security clearance

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsf-fsct/330-60-eng.asp

But if you were to a Temp Help Agency they would get you screened......

I got my secret clearance by doing this. Right after I graduated I went to some agency and had them put the paperwork through .. I never ended up working for them but I got the clearance because they get it rolling ahead of time so you have it if they do get you something

[jonf]

Great. I will get the ball rolling on that this afternoon. Anything to feel like I'm making progress.

[314314]

Any temp agency should be able to process your file, it's free... First Enhance and then secret. Everything is done online.

[Hacker]

The biggest tip that I can possible give anyone applying to Federal Government positions when it comes to the application phase is Be Creative in your writing........

Especially for the huge shared pool processes. Think of it as a game, in this game you have to demonstrate on paper how you meet each of the Statement of Merit criterion - if it says you need experience managing staff yet you've never held a "real" job then you need to be creative....Did you ever lead a team of classmates on a project? How about being the Captain of a Team? You only provide enough details to show that you have lead people (don't say that I had a turn leading my kindergarden classmates to the washroom, say that I have had experience as the lead of project team). The ruless of the game are that you a check mark for every particular requirement, so make sure that you have them covered off.

I'm NOT suggesting outright lying, I'm telling you that the first and most important step is getting past the screening process. This is a game and until you understand that and play accordingly you are just banging your head on the wall. If you don't truly have the skills that are required in the job, that will become apparent during a written exam, a board interview etc....

Too many good people fail because they are too literal in the application process which is used to screen as many people out as possible. If, after reading the SMC for a job you can't think of a way to show how you have met each of those criterion then don't waste your time applying - You WILL be screened out. Producing what I call promissory statements like "I will learn French on my own time" etc. etc. when speaking French is a Mandatory requirement will get you screened out - don't waste your time.

Getting past the screening process is a MUST if you want the chance to show people how smart your are, what a great personality you have and how invaluable you will be to their team........Are you going to let some screening clerk deny you that opportunity because don't have any experience working with WordPerfect???

[Kiwi]

I was in the "staffing" area for several years with the Feds. Although now retired I dont think things have changed that much. The Agency is the way to go. Hit them all until you find one or several that will take you seriously. I also went through this with my kids. Contacts are important as well. Keep on the Govt web sites as they often have "open" competitions to fill up their pool of candidates. Don't totally agree with Hacker's last comment but there is much truth in it. My kids did not have the "typical" experience but were able to use other experiences to qualify in areas like leadership. Just be aware that you will be asked to defend and/or explain everything you have said in a resume or application. So if you fudge it, you will be screened out and it may stick with you. The gov't is one big clique so if you try to bs someone it WILL get around. In my experience once you do get that first chance, and do well a conscientious manager will look for ways to get you on permanent, even if it is in another department or unit. All the best, and the best advice is to keep at it, don't turn down any job and don't give up.

[Hank Hill]

I managed to get into a temp position through an agency, unfortunately there was no competition at the end of it so I am back to square one now and trying to get back in.

[Weazl]

There will almost never be a competition for an agency job, what you need to do is Network your * off while in that jon and find a manager that will give you a term until you can win a competition.

[mpare]

Here's another bit of advice. When filling out the forms, whether it's online or otherwise, make sure that the particulars in your application demonstrate how you meet all of the conditions of the Statement of Qualifications. You'd be surprised how many people fail to get through the initial screening process on the basis that they do not meet the minimum job requirements. The shame is that they may well meet those requirements, but they failed to properly document that fact.

[Hacker]

Here's another bit of advice. When filling out the forms, whether it's online or otherwise, make sure that the particulars in your application demonstrate how you meet all of the conditions of the Statement of Qualifications. You'd be surprised how many people fail to get through the initial screening process on the basis that they do not meet the minimum job requirements. The shame is that they may well meet those requirements, but they failed to properly document that fact.

My point exactly!!

I'm screening applications now for a summer student that I'm hiring to do a redesign on my Intranet site and I know that some of these folks meet the SoQ requirements in spades based on my knowledge of what they are studying in school, but I can't give them credit for it because they didn't demonstrate to me how they meet the requirements in their application

[jonf]

I have a related question. A position will often give X as a requirement, and in the online application process will give you a place to fill out how you meet that requirement (usually in the "other qualifications" or "questionnaire section"). Presumably, this is all you need to do to indicate that you have fulfilled the requirement? I only ask because the applications are also very specific that your resume should indicate how you meet every requirement. Now, it seems that for me to write a resume that shows all that, it would have to be about four pages long, especially as I'm pulling in experiences from a number of different extra curriculars in order to fulfill the requirements. I think this is just an issue with the language on the website, but I just want to make sure that I'm not screwing myself by focussing on the online application as opposed to my resume. (maybe they should hire me to re-write some of the stuff on that website)

[slicemaster]

Another way that you can score a casual work term is by going to the government electronic directory and looking up the managers in the department that you want to work in. Their email address is there, so you can try emailing them your resume to see if they will at least look at it.

A guy at my work got an AS-02 casual position by doing that. He just emailed several Directors and one finally called him in. Here is the link to the directory:

http://direct.srv.gc.ca/cgi-bin/direct500/BE

It's getting close to fiscal year end, so I am sure a lot of departments are looking for body to quickly bring in. Good luck!

[jonf]

Surprise, surprise, I've got another question.

I'm currently filling out an application, and while I've been able to demonstrate related experience for most of the essential qualifications, I simply do not have one: "Preparing responses for senior officials." I do feel that i really have all the other bases covered, and was considering ticking 'yes' box and then explaining that while I do NOT actually have said experience, I have the following skills and abilities which all indicate I would excel in such a position.

So I guess my question is two parts:
1 - will doing this get me in trouble for supplying false info, even though I explain that i don't actually meet the qualification
AND
2 - is there any point, or will they just bin it as soon as they read that I don't actually have the experience


I am not going to submit this application (which unfortunately is due tonight) because I don't want to get blackballed for something stupid (especially when the chances of me getting the job are limited in the first place). But, for future reference what would you do in this situation? Submit it and hope, or just wait for another job to come along?

[Weazl]

In my opinion, since you don't have the experience in an office setting, could you substitute "Senior Official" for a higher level manager in past employment?

[Hacker]

Surprise, surprise, I've got another question.

I'm currently filling out an application, and while I've been able to demonstrate related experience for most of the essential qualifications, I simply do not have one: "Preparing responses for senior officials." I do feel that i really have all the other bases covered, and was considering ticking 'yes' box and then explaining that while I do NOT actually have said experience, I have the following skills and abilities which all indicate I would excel in such a position.

So I guess my question is two parts:
1 - will doing this get me in trouble for supplying false info, even though I explain that i don't actually meet the qualification
AND
2 - is there any point, or will they just bin it as soon as they read that I don't actually have the experience


I am not going to submit this application (which unfortunately is due tonight) because I don't want to get blackballed for something stupid (especially when the chances of me getting the job are limited in the first place). But, for future reference what would you do in this situation? Submit it and hope, or just wait for another job to come along?

Jon,

In looking at your CV I have a couple of questions for you....

At one point you were the leader of successful campaign at your University - in that role, did you not have to prepare written documentation that was sent to Senior University Officials?

Now let's look at your Thesis - you had to defend it, did it pass without revisions? If not, didn't you prepare a written response that you submitted to your Thesis supervisior, Department head etc....these would all be considered Senior Officials in that contexts.

In your work with BTI Photonics, did you ever prepare an options paper, recommendations or an opinions paper? Those would all be examples of preparing responses for Senior Officials.

This goes to what I was saying earlier about being creative. I'm not suggesting for one minute that you misrepresent your experience, but you need think outside the box a bit to realize that you probably do have the more generic types of experiences.

If the essential qualification was more specific, i.e. "Preparing responses on population health related issues for Senior Government and political officials" than you would probably be SOL. But in this case it was a very generic statement requiring applicants to demonstrate that they have prepared a response of some type for someone more senior than them.

To answer you direct questions,

1. Don't supply false information, find away to use your actual experience to demonstrate how you meet the requirement.

2. Yes, they will bin your application if you don't meet all of the essential criteria.

[jonf]

Thanks again for your response. In the context of the specific position, I had read the statement as meaning 'have you ever prepared responses on behalf of senior officials.' In either case, however, I haven't actually had to prepare such a written response in any of those situations. (which is a little surprising, when you look at it).

[314314]

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[jonf]

I've just found out that I'm being considered for an analyst position and will be writing an online test in a couple of weeks. I'll be receiving a case study then be asked to answer a number of questions. One of the criteria they are testing on is "Knowledge of methods, techniques or practices in conducting analyses such as financial, feasibility, cost-benefit, statistical, technical or economic impact." This is not something I have any experience with and was wondering if anyone might have an old university textbook lying around that addresses some of these things. I want to go in to this test as prepared as possible. Thanks in advance.

[beefstuf]

Wow jonf congrats on making it to the written component of the government employment track. To answer your question I do have text books that may cover these topics, but I could not say one will cover them. I have a few finance books, but often times in government they refer to accounting as finance so you may need to refresh on the subject of managerial accounting. I have a few textbooks that cover statistics, but they cover different aspects of statistics, i.e. regression - multiple and linear, etc. To make a long rant a bit shorter, if you could provide us with the job description I may be able to better help you with determining the best topics to cover and what text books would help you gain knowledge on these topics.

[jonf]

The job description is as follows:

"Working in the Dispute Resolution Branch of the Canadian Transportation Agency

Analysts and senior analysts in the Dispute Resolution Branch, in addition to advancing the Agency’s strategic priorities, may resolve disputes informally or participate in the resolution of disputes formally. Disputes can involve an array of complex economic, operational, legal or accessibility issues relating to transportation. Where disputes cannot be resolved informally via facilitation by the analyst or senior analyst (or by mediation, which is undertaken by another part of the Agency), the dispute is resolved formally, via adjudication. During the adjudicative phase, analysts and senior analysts are responsible for the collection and analysis of evidence from parties, in concert with management and legal counsel, providing written recommendations to a panel of Agency members assigned to preside over the dispute, and drafting final Agency decisions based on direction provided by the panel."

The description of the test is decidedly vague. The quote I gave earlier is basically all the information I was given. Not sure if that helps at all.

I am reading up on some of these concepts online, and they seem in many cases to be very self explanatory (at least conceptually). My main concern is that they may be expecting a very technical analysis, which at this point I am unprepared for. If they want logic, I'm in good shape.