What's more important in a driver?

[Chieflongtee]

You are not the only one with that perception.See below.

Someone on another forum I correspond with suggested I look at this thread. Having done so, although reluctant to get too involved because of time constraints, I feel obliged to offer a few comments based on my own experience of MOI-matching clubs, but first I probably need to present my credentials, so to speak.

Briefly, I have been a professional clubmaker since the early 1990s. In 2001, I was named the GCA 'Clubmaker of the Year' for Europe. In early 2003, I acquired a prototype MOI 'Period Counter' system for evaluation. To cut a long story short, once I had learned how to work out a player's true optimum MOI setting - which in most cases will probably be different for the woods, the irons and the wedges - the advantages over swingweighting were so self-evident & overwhelming that every set of clubs I have built since about 2004 has been MOI-matched, rather than swingweight-matched.

How overwhelming? At the last count I had MOI-matched in excess of six hundred sets of woods and irons/wedges, a mix of 'new builds' and existing sets that I had 'retro matched'. From the outset I adopted a very simple policy with every customer whose clubs I MOI-matched: if he/she didn't think that the system offered any real tangible benefits, in terms of feel, improved consistency, ball striking or whatever, or they just didn't like it, for whatever reason, all they had to do was return them and I would re-make the clubs to whatever swingweight match they specified, free of charge.

I had expected to have some golfers take up the offer, but the percentage who actually did was astonishingly small:

ONE.

That's not one percent, by the way, that's ONE GOLFER - one data set out of the 600-plus sets I have on file. BTW, if I don't hear from a customer within a month of him or her collecting their clubs, I call them to enquire how they are getting on, so it's not a question of them just letting things slide because they can't be bothered to pick up the phone. I KNOW if they're happy or unhappy, because I ask them directly. I've never seen that level of acceptance of a new clubmaking 'technology' in all the time I've been in this business. Period.

[The Saint]

As a club builder I find this debate quit interesting, however as a moderator I must ask that you respect each others opinions without making it personal. Thank you.

[Kona Golf]

At the time of your reply there were 52 people viewing this forum. Be careful with your comments... You may tick off potential customers... This is not Illinois and spring is not really around the corner..The nemesis offset is a great club. Send me 5 demos and I will have your sales increase 10 foldA lot of pewople would benefit from such a design but hey ego plays a role in club selectionWhat does not make sense about MOI matching in your opinion? Wait til BC Mist and your CDN distributor read this. You will have plenty to occupy yourself in the next couple days.

Now I know why you are a Hogan's fans. You are watching Hogans heroes over and over. Dismissssssssssssssssssssssssssssed

Hi Andre,

Thank goodness we are only giving our opinions here! (like certain parts of our body, everyone has one).

I believe Both Mike and BC are correct in stating that equipment will not fix a broken swing, and I am pretty sure you to agree.

In my experience, I would classify Mike as a traditionalist when it comes to club building. He provides excellent components, assembles using traditional methods, and provides excellent finished product to his customers. You might call it the KISS principal. (Mike, I hope you recover quickly and the procedure was successful)

I also believe that with equipment that caters to the broken swing, that we can "improve the quality of life" of the crippled golfer, remembering that it is only a band aid. ie: nemisis o/s. I believe this is for the hopeless recreational golfer. The individual that can not justify lessons, can not justify practice or just simply will never get it.


Now, when we talk about all of the things we can do with TLT, TFT, MOI, Spine, Flo etc. I agree with you, that these methods, (especially a combination of them) will improve the overall golfing experience and lower scores for most of us. We want any advantage that is available out there and we have an open mind.

Buttttttt: I also think that we sometimes over complicate things and we cross that point of diminishing returns! I do not believe this is EVER the case with lessons and practice.

The question is "where does one Draw the Line"?

Obviously, I too have too much time on my hands!

Regards!

[Bravesox]

i see a comparison in the bats and golf clubs. i swing 28ounce endloaded bats i also swing x-flex clubs all because of my swingspeed. most of the guys in this topic forgot more then i know about clubs/shafts....but i do know that theheavier bat/club i can control better and hit further...with the obvious that too heavy isnt any good either. Hockey sticks are even harder to figure out Chara's is so stiff they cant measure it...105.mph...adrian aucoin 102 mph wooden stick...65 flex??

Do bats flex?

André, like golf shaft bats have flex and like golf different companies have different name. Here are some of them: Regular, stiff, Opti, extended, handle, etc...

As for hockey sticks well flex goes from 50 to 120...

As a user I think (personnal) that lighter is better and that flex is something you have to try. Light shaft will give you a faster swing but like a few said the head is the heaviest part of the club. I guess a lighter club will be harder to control but have a faster club-head speed. A heavier club will be the contrary.

So the trick, I guess, is to find the perfect weight that a golfer can control and have the fastest club-head speed as possible.

[Chieflongtee]

[QUOTE]

i see a comparison in the bats and golf clubs. i swing 28ounce endloaded bats i also swing x-flex clubs all because of my swingspeed. most of the guys in this topic forgot more then i know about clubs/shafts....but i do know that theheavier bat/club i can control better and hit further...

Please tell us more about your credentials and everything you know about shafts. I am all ears. Hopefully you are not Eagar
In a heavier baseball bat is the extra weight spread out over the entire area or more in the butt section or more in the bat end??

[Kona Golf]

i see a comparison in the bats and golf clubs. i swing 28ounce endloaded bats i also swing x-flex clubs all because of my swingspeed. most of the guys in this topic forgot more then i know about clubs/shafts....but i do know that theheavier bat/club i can control better and hit further...with the obvious that too heavy isnt any good either. Hockey sticks are even harder to figure out Chara's is so stiff they cant measure it...105.mph...adrian aucoin 102 mph wooden stick...65 flex??

[QUOTE=Chieflongtee;290037]

Please tell us more about your credentials and everything you know about shafts. I am all ears. Hopefully you are not Eagar
In a heavier baseball bat is the extra weight spread out over the entire area or more in the butt section or more in the bat end??

Down Boy

Brave sox already shared his expertise with us.

most of the guys in this topic forgot more then i know about clubs/shafts

He is sharing his own "feeling and results".

Is it time to Kill this thread? or is it already DEAD

[Chieflongtee]

[quote=Kona Golf;290039]

Down Boy

Brave sox already shared his expertise with us.


He is sharing his own "feeling and results".

Is it time to Kill this thread? or is it already DEAD

Hey Jim. I like the way you keep your cool. I was not challenging Bravesox. I am serious in my query. I like to keep an open mind.Assuming Bravesox is on to something re: heavier club. If I add weight to the head then the club will feel more head heavy. However if add strips of lead tape of various lengths to the shaft the perceived feel or result might be different than just adding weight to the head. It will be my next experiment. Hurry up spring.

[BC MIST]

[QUOTE=Chieflongtee;290050]

I like to keep an open mind.Assuming Bravesox is on to something re: heavier club. If I add weight to the head then the club will feel more head heavy. However if add strips of lead tape of various lengths to the shaft the perceived feel or result might be different than just adding weight to the head. It will be my next experiment.

The feel will definitely be altered, but in real terms, what are you looking for in a performance change?

[Chieflongtee]

something like this:

From bravesox.
but i do know that theheavier bat/club i can control better and hit further...with the obvious that too heavy isnt any good either

Just an experiment. I believe your clubs are heavier than most or Am i assuming wrong?Some folks rave about counterbalancing, Is it really counterbalancing that does the trick for them or a heavier overall weight?

[Bravesox]

in a slowpitch softball bat the weight i prefer is "endloaded" meaning more weight is located at the end...pretty simple to that point...but balanced bats it is usually spread out more evenly...once again pretty easy to figure out. what i find simular from bats to golf clubs is i dont like the light feeling. I dont claim to know anything that proves what you or the others are disputing...just think that i would throw in my two cents worth. BUT i did purchase a 96 gram V2 tour shaft for my driver...i have a 120's SS and have a 09 burner with a really light shaft 49 grams...i am going to see which performs the best.[quote=Chieflongtee;290037]

Please tell us more about your credentials and everything you know about shafts. I am all ears. Hopefully you are not Eagar
In a heavier baseball bat is the extra weight spread out over the entire area or more in the butt section or more in the bat end??

[Bravesox]

hey thanks Kona but i am open to explaining what i think works and why when comparing golfclubs to softball bats...i dont take offence to questioning. Ask my anything about softball bats and what i think works and doesnt and use the info if/how ever you want. glad to be of help to either of you...[quote=Kona Golf;290039]

Down Boy

Brave sox already shared his expertise with us.


He is sharing his own "feeling and results".

Is it time to Kill this thread? or is it already DEAD

[Kona Golf]

something like this:


Just an experiment. I believe your clubs are heavier than most or Am i assuming wrong? Some folks rave about counterbalancing, Is it really counterbalancing that does the trick for them or a heavier overall weight?

Sorry Andre, if I offended you or anyone else earlier with my posts

Weight on the end of a bat would be more like Swing Weight of a club would it not?

Moe Norman played D6 / D7 sw (and could tell the difference on 1 sw point) For Some, Heavier is better.

[Chieflongtee]

No offense taken my dear friend. If Moe Norman played D6-7 then his clubs must have been real heavy as his grips were also built up considerably. I believe someone mentionned to me that all his clubs had the same lies but I can't confirm.

[Kona Golf]

No, but he knew if they were off by even 1 degree of loft!