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02-15-2009 06:05 AM #61
You are not the only one with that perception.See below.
Someone on another forum I correspond with suggested I look at this thread. Having done so, although reluctant to get too involved because of time constraints, I feel obliged to offer a few comments based on my own experience of MOI-matching clubs, but first I probably need to present my credentials, so to speak.
Briefly, I have been a professional clubmaker since the early 1990s. In 2001, I was named the GCA 'Clubmaker of the Year' for Europe. In early 2003, I acquired a prototype MOI 'Period Counter' system for evaluation. To cut a long story short, once I had learned how to work out a player's true optimum MOI setting - which in most cases will probably be different for the woods, the irons and the wedges - the advantages over swingweighting were so self-evident & overwhelming that every set of clubs I have built since about 2004 has been MOI-matched, rather than swingweight-matched.
How overwhelming? At the last count I had MOI-matched in excess of six hundred sets of woods and irons/wedges, a mix of 'new builds' and existing sets that I had 'retro matched'. From the outset I adopted a very simple policy with every customer whose clubs I MOI-matched: if he/she didn't think that the system offered any real tangible benefits, in terms of feel, improved consistency, ball striking or whatever, or they just didn't like it, for whatever reason, all they had to do was return them and I would re-make the clubs to whatever swingweight match they specified, free of charge.
I had expected to have some golfers take up the offer, but the percentage who actually did was astonishingly small:
ONE.
That's not one percent, by the way, that's ONE GOLFER - one data set out of the 600-plus sets I have on file. BTW, if I don't hear from a customer within a month of him or her collecting their clubs, I call them to enquire how they are getting on, so it's not a question of them just letting things slide because they can't be bothered to pick up the phone. I KNOW if they're happy or unhappy, because I ask them directly. I've never seen that level of acceptance of a new clubmaking 'technology' in all the time I've been in this business. Period.Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
Mahatma Gandhi
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02-15-2009 08:33 AM #62
As a club builder I find this debate quit interesting, however as a moderator I must ask that you respect each others opinions without making it personal. Thank you.
Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing, ... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs...
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02-15-2009 12:06 PM #63
Hi Andre,
Thank goodness we are only giving our opinions here! (like certain parts of our body, everyone has one).
I believe Both Mike and BC are correct in stating that equipment will not fix a broken swing, and I am pretty sure you to agree.
In my experience, I would classify Mike as a traditionalist when it comes to club building. He provides excellent components, assembles using traditional methods, and provides excellent finished product to his customers. You might call it the KISS principal. (Mike, I hope you recover quickly and the procedure was successful)
I also believe that with equipment that caters to the broken swing, that we can "improve the quality of life" of the crippled golfer, remembering that it is only a band aid. ie: nemisis o/s. I believe this is for the hopeless recreational golfer. The individual that can not justify lessons, can not justify practice or just simply will never get it.
Now, when we talk about all of the things we can do with TLT, TFT, MOI, Spine, Flo etc. I agree with you, that these methods, (especially a combination of them) will improve the overall golfing experience and lower scores for most of us. We want any advantage that is available out there and we have an open mind.
Buttttttt: I also think that we sometimes over complicate things and we cross that point of diminishing returns! I do not believe this is EVER the case with lessons and practice.
The question is "where does one Draw the Line"?
Obviously, I too have too much time on my hands!
Regards!
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02-15-2009 12:41 PM #64
i see a comparison in the bats and golf clubs. i swing 28ounce endloaded bats i also swing x-flex clubs all because of my swingspeed. most of the guys in this topic forgot more then i know about clubs/shafts....but i do know that theheavier bat/club i can control better and hit further...with the obvious that too heavy isnt any good either. Hockey sticks are even harder to figure out Chara's is so stiff they cant measure it...105.mph...adrian aucoin 102 mph wooden stick...65 flex??
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02-15-2009 01:10 PM #65Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
Mahatma Gandhi
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02-15-2009 01:19 PM #66
[QUOTE=Chieflongtee;290037]
Please tell us more about your credentials and everything you know about shafts. I am all ears. Hopefully you are not Eagar
In a heavier baseball bat is the extra weight spread out over the entire area or more in the butt section or more in the bat end??
Brave sox already shared his expertise with us.
He is sharing his own "feeling and results".
Is it time to Kill this thread? or is it already DEAD
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02-15-2009 02:37 PM #67
[quote=Kona Golf;290039]
Hey Jim. I like the way you keep your cool. I was not challenging Bravesox. I am serious in my query. I like to keep an open mind.Assuming Bravesox is on to something re: heavier club. If I add weight to the head then the club will feel more head heavy. However if add strips of lead tape of various lengths to the shaft the perceived feel or result might be different than just adding weight to the head. It will be my next experiment. Hurry up spring.Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
Mahatma Gandhi
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02-15-2009 06:39 PM #68
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
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02-15-2009 07:05 PM #69
something like this:
From bravesox.
but i do know that theheavier bat/club i can control better and hit further...with the obvious that too heavy isnt any good eitherLive as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
Mahatma Gandhi
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02-15-2009 09:43 PM #70
in a slowpitch softball bat the weight i prefer is "endloaded" meaning more weight is located at the end...pretty simple to that point...but balanced bats it is usually spread out more evenly...once again pretty easy to figure out. what i find simular from bats to golf clubs is i dont like the light feeling. I dont claim to know anything that proves what you or the others are disputing...just think that i would throw in my two cents worth. BUT i did purchase a 96 gram V2 tour shaft for my driver...i have a 120's SS and have a 09 burner with a really light shaft 49 grams...i am going to see which performs the best.[quote=Chieflongtee;290037]
Please tell us more about your credentials and everything you know about shafts. I am all ears. Hopefully you are not Eagar
In a heavier baseball bat is the extra weight spread out over the entire area or more in the butt section or more in the bat end??
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02-15-2009 10:12 PM #71
hey thanks Kona but i am open to explaining what i think works and why when comparing golfclubs to softball bats...i dont take offence to questioning. Ask my anything about softball bats and what i think works and doesnt and use the info if/how ever you want. glad to be of help to either of you...[quote=Kona Golf;290039]
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02-16-2009 12:36 PM #72
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02-17-2009 08:36 AM #73
No offense taken my dear friend. If Moe Norman played D6-7 then his clubs must have been real heavy as his grips were also built up considerably. I believe someone mentionned to me that all his clubs had the same lies but I can't confirm.
Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
Mahatma Gandhi
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02-17-2009 01:02 PM #74
No, but he knew if they were off by even 1 degree of loft!
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