Sen' Chatter

[Kiwi]

WOW!, searched the recent threads and not so much as a peep about the home town boys. Can't believe this Forum has become so silent on the home town boys. Although not a "fan" in the true sense I still remember the glory days of the Red Mile on Elgin Street and how this City felt back then.

How about some thoughts? Or a rumour or two. How about Pat Quinn doing GM/Coach until the end of the season then bring in "his" coach to shake things up? Quinn has been mentioned in the media lots recently but maybe only because he is here, the Sens are struggling and he did such a good job with the Jr's. Would Ottawa fans accept him? Is the smell of the ML gone?

Has Hartsberg "lost the room"? If Murray (whom I personally really like) fires him too, what does that say about him?

Whatcha say?

[Indio]

I'm a Sens fan and really don't know what to make of how they have played for the past 10 or so hockey months... it is like the heart has been taken out of them. the boys that were undrateable a year ago aren't evem being heard from anymore (Vermette, Kelly, Fisher) the defence looks like a bunch of rookies making simple mistakes and where to hell has the scoring gone?

I have a feeling someone is going to have to take the blame for this before the trading deadline but I don't think the blame can be placed in any one location.....

Oh well, I still watch them when they are on TV, the occasionaly come up with a good game

But like you, I am surprised that the Leafs fans havent been all over the Sens plight

[Wilster]

The Pat Quinn rumores are getting stonger by the second , and depending how this woeful road trip finishes out , we may well see the sacrificial lamb , in Hartsburg , get the chop. I personally think this would be really harsh , but the dilemma the sens are in ,isn't going to change without something changing .
I think the trade rumours will quiet down for a bit if this happens , but i think we'll see something sooner rather than later, or the season will be a bust.

[sensfan63]

The Pat Quinn rumores are getting stonger by the second , and depending how this woeful road trip finishes out , we may well see the sacrificial lamb , in Hartsburg , get the chop. I personally think this would be really harsh , but the dilemma the sens are in ,isn't going to change without something changing .
I think the trade rumours will quiet down for a bit if this happens , but i think we'll see something sooner rather than later, or the season will be a bust.

If Hartsburg goes, that's two coaches in two years that would not last entire seasons. Eventually, SOMEONE has to wise up that, DUH, IT'S NOT THE FREAKING COACH !!!!

[jonf]

The problem is that nobody knows what the problem is. I mean, obviously they blow, but nobody knows why. It doesn't make sense. It is still, for the most part, the team that set out to a record start last year. Obviously something is wrong, but I don't think anyone knows what it is.

As for suggestions, I would suggest giving Brian Elliot a shot in net, because obviously Gerber and Auld are not the future of the team, and I'd rather give our up and comers some experience this year (as we obviously aren't making the playoffs).

I also suggest completely tanking the rest of the season so we can get Tavares or Hedman, and bring in Karlsson next year. Other than that, just prepare to watch more losses for this season and see if we can pick up some defence and forwards next year. It's obvious that this team needs a reshuffle, and needs to look significantly different if it is going to have success next year.

[justsomeguy]

The problem is that nobody knows what the problem is. I mean, obviously they blow, but nobody knows why. It doesn't make sense. It is still, for the most part, the team that set out to a record start last year. Obviously something is wrong, but I don't think anyone knows what it is.

They've known (and Murray has been saying) what the problem is for a while now, but they haven't been able to fix it and you have chosen to not believe it. They have too many slow, defensive defencemen and not enough people who can take control of the puck and make the outlet pass. They spend too much time in their own end, because even when they do break up plays all they can do is dump the puck out and let the other team regroup and/or dump the puck back in again.

In short, they have NO transition game at all. It doesn't help that the only defenceman with any offensive skill at all (Kuba) has been injured for a good part of the year. They only seem to score on the power play - because your opponent gives you a free pass out of your end when they're on the PK, so you don't need a good transition game for that.

Earlier in the year they had problems with consistency and putting forth the required effort. Lately that hasn't been the issue - they've been working hard and still losing. Goaltending has been fine - not the best in the league but far from the worst either. They need to trade one of their defensive defencemen like Phillips or Smith for a puck-moving defenceman who can score a few goals from the point. Combine that with the work ethic they've been showing lately, and they'll start to win again.

[Chambokl]

Maybe Redden was pretty good afterall...

[rezadue]

Well, as another Sens fan I have been watching this wreck of a hockey season too. IMHO there are several things to consider:

1) While Ottawa used to be known to have one of the fastest transition games in the league, at least this year it has been non existent. Most of the passes coming out of the defensive zone are very short passes. The defencemen seem incapable or unwilling to make the longer passes, and therefore the forward have no speed or momentum going into the offensive zone. And once the pass has been made, the defencemen seems to generally drop back and don't follow the play up the ice much. There is not a lot of puck support in the offensive zone.

Having said this, we allegedly had 2 "puck moving" defencemen last year and the second half was as disasterous as this year has been... So is the problem really all about the lack of puck moving defence??

2) On the power play the puck seems to get moved around at a pretty slow speed and once the puck goes from player A to B, player B almost always required a second or two to setup. What this seems to do is to allow the opposition to adjust to the new location of the puck and as a result, most of the shot are blocked.

3) There is not a whole lot of "going to the net". It seems to have gotten a bit better lately, but generally not a lot.

4) While a lot of people in this city seem to rag on Spezza, my main problem is with Heatley. He said he wanted to do more and be a leader. He got the big contract. He got an "A" on his jersey. And he is not performing up to par with respect to skill or salary.

He seems to be very weak on the puck. Does not battle much for the puck. Is very predictable with his one timer and generally seems to want to just have someone pass him a puck so he can shoot it.

5) Fisher who gets paid $6000000 this year has produced at the level of an entry contract person. Yes I know he is a great guy and a model citizen and tries hard every night, but in the end Hockey is result oriented and he is not producing at a rate commensurate with his salary.

6) If anyone finds where Vermette and Kelley are vacationing at right now, please let them know that the season is not over yet.


7) My biggest problem is with Hartsburg. He said he was going to hold people accountable and be a no non sense kinda coach. Ok, why are you not sending the non factors up to the press box for a game or two? They are not producing (I am looking directly at Heatley). The team is not winning with them in the line up. So what are you afraid of? Hurting their feelings? Give me a break....

I also find it curious that almost all of the Sens forwards are in a slump at the same time? Is this a true slump; or something induced by the system they now have? While they sucked hard in the second half of last year, at least the forwards scored some goals....

The farm system for Ottawa was in shambles for a number of years, and as a result there is not much in the farm. Murray has done well to put a system together and has tried to patch things up as best as he could. He has done a lot of good, but also has made bad moves:

1) Emery contract
2) John Paddock Hiring
3) Craig Hartsburg hiring
4) No movement clauses in the super fat contracts

I am on the fence when it comes to whether he has done more good than bad right now.

Fact of the matter is that Ottawa must win 3/4 of the remaining games to get to the same number of points as last year (44 games left to make 62 points). And last year they barely got into the playoffs. Even with some changes (if they were possible) making the playoffs would be almost impossible for this team; this year.

Let it play out with no trades, see where you are in the Hedman/Tavares sweeps and make big changes in the off season. It is time to remake this team. I rather see 2-3 years of rebuilding and getting a Chicago like team rather tan the dabacle the leaf fans have had to endure for a number of years.

[rezadue]

.................................................. G...A...+/-.....PIM...PPG SHG..SOG..FW
Wade Redden (NYR - D)...................2..14..-6.......27......1.....0.....74....0

Maybe Redden was pretty good afterall...

[jonf]

No, Redden wasn't any good. That was still a positive move. He was a 2.5 million dollar defenceman who wanted 6. Chara on the other hand..... http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8465009

[Indio]

Maybe the players do not like Hartsburg's system (what ever it is)....

[jonf]

I think Hartsburg and Murray should scour the ottawa area for quality beer league players, and put them on the ice for one game, just as the ultimate kick in the pants to the Ottawa players. Who knows, they might actually end up playing better than the Sens anyway. We know they'd try harder.

[1972Apex]

The simple fact of the matter is Murray sucks at the GM position. Other than the first 20 games of last season, the Sens have been in a downward spiral since Muckler was fired and replaced by Murray.
Sure he made the occasional mistake, but Joe Corvo was an exciting defenceman who moved the puck. Murray gave him away for basically nothing. He's done the same with several other players over the past two years.
The people he has brought in while serving as GM (Marty Lapointe for one, Mike Commodore for another) have been overrated, washed-up has beens, who disappeared the minute the season was over.
Murray has lost it. Fire him and his coach and start over. Maybe another GM can get rid of the deadwood on the team and make some good draft picks to rebuild the Senators.
A fish rots from the head down and right now the head of this team stinks!

[golfinteg]

The simple fact of the matter is Murray sucks at the GM position. Other than the first 20 games of last season, the Sens have been in a downward spiral since Muckler was fired and replaced by Murray.
Sure he made the occasional mistake, but Joe Corvo was an exciting defenceman who moved the puck. Murray gave him away for basically nothing. He's done the same with several other players over the past two years.
The people he has brought in while serving as GM (Marty Lapointe for one, Mike Commodore for another) have been overrated, washed-up has beens, who disappeared the minute the season was over.
Murray has lost it. Fire him and his coach and start over. Maybe another GM can get rid of the deadwood on the team and make some good draft picks to rebuild the Senators.
A fish rots from the head down and right now the head of this team stinks!

Totally agreed with you regarding that lame duck Murray. Hindsight is 20/20 in most cases but not in my corner where I had the foresight and discernment which I posted on 04-18-2008, 01:12 AM which I'm citing next post below.

[golfinteg]

04-18-2008, 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spackler
This season is not Emery's fault. The same people who didn't care about off ice issues at the start of the year, now are blaming them entirely for the Sens'; failure. I think their impact was underestimated then, and overestimated now. Injuries played a far bigger role than anything else this year.
Goaltending (Gerber is not that good, he let in some killer goals in the post season that you just can't let in), coaching (IMO Paddock screwed the Sens over with his handling of the goalie rotation, and by not holding players accountable to the system), and depth are the issues that need to be rectified in the offseason. It won't be easy, and Murray could do enormous damage if he reacts to the season as emotionally as the fans have. Spezza, Heatly and especially Alfie form a solid core.
Spackler I totally concurred with your assessment.
"Emery will be initially be blamed" - Chris Cobb (Ottawa Citizen)
"Fall nearly complete for Emery" - headlined by Sean Fitz-Gerald (National Post). . In defence of Emery, Sean stated that Emery played in each of his team's 30 playoff games in the previous two seasons and capped it with a 20-game run to the championship round last spring. Although Senators lost in 5 games to Ducks it appeared Senators have found the goaltender (18 postseason wins, 3 shutouts) who could lead them to the final for years to come.. Compared to Gerber ( 10 postseason games - 1 win only per NHL stats) .
Methink this is a classical Mis -Management-personnel issue. As Don Cherry stated if you are not going to play Emery you should have shipped him out. Preseason we were trying to trade Gerber (Murray's pet?). nobody wants him or did management try hard enough? Then turn around make Emery the fall guy. Of course, if Gerber had stole a game I would not have written this piece. The 3rd game he let in the killer goals which completely deflated and led to the team giving up their ghosts!!! Am I correct? Thats an inspiring vote of confidence..
My contention here is that to build a Stanley cup team you have to build it around a goalie (definitely not Gerber) ala Brodeur, Fuhr, Roy etc. Emery is a damged good because of all the negative spin.
The guy who knows him well think that "the city's been pretty hard on him" . IMHO I don't think he got a fair shake. Did he get a fair chance to play in the 4th game.
Bottom line is management screwed up pretty bad and us fans, the shareholders, are getting shafted. Don't blamed the players .
Just to share with you guys, I had coached, managed and owned a soccer team with the same kind of turmoil and experience though on a different level. I certainly understand the ramifications and dynamics involved. In hindsight, I would not stick with my pet mediocre player all the way especially in a team sport.

[golfinteg]

On a lighter note, well at least we have some nail .... I mean finger biting moments with our Sens

[foxman]

Interesting story in the Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/...011/story.html

[golfott]

i love it, the guy everyone in ottawa said was a blowhard, a bad coach, hated him, he is a whiner etc etc etc, is now the one everyone wants to have come in and save the day!!

delicious!!!!
and this after it seems like melnyk begged sundin to come here too, but with no success.

hey maybe JFJ would be interested in the GM position too?

[spackler]

I actually think Murray is doing a decent job on the talent side these days. The team is thin right now, but Karlsson was probably the best player not named Tavares at the WJC and O'Brien looked pretty good for the States too. His record overall isn't stellar, some bad trades (Corvo is really the only good player he's traded away, but that was a big stinker), some bad contracts (Fisher and Emery, though Emery didn't cost much to get out of), and a couple of very bad coaching hires, but the talent side is getting better and better. Getting rid of Redden and Meszaros should be lauded, they were puck moving d-men, but they are terrible The Sens will be really good in a couple years, the Muckler years really screwed up the system, but it's gradually getting stronger and Spezza will be in his prime as the prospects come along. Heatley will still be good in a couple years, and if he's not here, the talent that his trade would bring will be. The Sens may not be great right now, but they're in a decent position to come back strong as long as Melnyk doesn't screw it up. They need a new coach, but they don't need a new GM, especially an inexperienced guy like Nicholson.

[sharon.gmc]

The story about Ottawa Citizen is pretty cool. .

[golfisforfun]

Sens have a serious lack of talent on the big team and in Bingo!!!

When they have injuries, they have no "skill" players to call up. They simply call up a guy they say will "work hard and bring energy" but that won't win them games.

Most of their players work hard.

The fact is, they have become older and slower each year. The last good draft pick to be successful was Spezza and that was many years ago. The scouting has been bad since Pierre Gauthier left.

There are at least 8 teams in the East that are better than the Sens. Add to that the fact they do not have a #1 goalie and this is why they are near the bottom of the league.

They have 6 or 7 4th line players in Ottawa and a slow defence with limited offensive ability.

The league is all about speed and skill and depth.

The GM is responsible for a lot of the problems. No good moves have been made to improve the team.

The coach is a rookie who needs time but also needs some skill to work with. He also needs to sit some players. In Montreal, Carbo benched Lapierre and Latendresse for 3 or 4 games and Kostopols sat also. In the month or December, they were Montreal's best line because they were embarasses by being benched. So yes, it does work!!!

Pick any coach you want, the Sens are not a good enough team and don't have enough skill to make the playoffs.

[leftylucas]

Well I was not chiming in about the Sens for a while because I was being told "its early" and that they will get out of it. Obviously this has been going on since Nov/07 and their record in the calendar year 08 is well below 500. The coach had the chance to shake things up but he for whatever reason did not and now what can he do. I believe that Spezza is too one dimensional to continue with the Sens but he was never made to sit out and force himself to change and play in both ends of the ice. The entire team suffers from the stick poke check flyby instead of finishing their checks. Murray has needed a D-man to transition for the 1st line and has not done so. Harty should have sat some players out but never did. This team is easy to play against if you have a good checking line and a decent penalty kill. That being said Murray has to go get Bowmeister (spell chech required) and trade some guys to get him no matter what and then sign him to a decent deal. He then needs to sign or bring up a young D man that can handle the puck for the other Olines. Harty must sit some players out, dip into BIngo to get something going. The status quo will only lead to frustration and further deterioration of the confidence, whatever is left.

[golfisforfun]

Problem with trading Spezza - Sens are the lowest scoring team in the league so they need to get a 100 pt man in retrun for Spezza... good luck!!!

Problem with getting Bowmeester - Do you really think the Sens have many assets to offer in return? And please don't tell me that teams want Mike Fisher at over $6M per year... oh yeah, don't forget the no-movement clauses. I am pretty sure the Habs can offer a lot more in return...

Problem with dipping into Bingo - The players they have there are no better and also lack any experience. If the baby Sens actually had talented players, they would already be with the big team.

[leftylucas]

I agree about Spezza. He is a 100+ man but his defensive liability makes him a net 60 point man. He is fantastic offensively but absolutely horrible defensively. It is lack of effort, example, just look at the way he played in the win in Buffalo in Oct I think and the win against Edmonton. He played great in both ends of the ice, he did not bulldose anyone but he used his body in many instances instead of his stick. He picked up his man in the D zone but this type of effort is rare, WHY???? If he played like this more consistently he would be a much sought after player.

[leftylucas]

Problem with getting Bowmeester - Do you really think the Sens have many assets to offer in return? And please don't tell me that teams want Mike Fisher at over $6M per year... oh yeah, don't forget the no-movement clauses. I am pretty sure the Habs can offer a lot more in return...

Problem with dipping into Bingo - The players they have there are no better and also lack any experience. If the baby Sens actually had talented players, they would already be with the big team.

I did not offer how Murray would do it but it is obvious we need a player like this and getting rid of Vermette and/or some other player will go a long way to shake the team up. Martin will listen especially when Vermette's name is mentioned but one must also consider that Martin will likely not do anything to help the Sens.

My point about the Bingo players was more of a wake up call to current roster players, hell it cant hurt. I really do not think the Sens problems are a question of talent otherwise we would be in a playoff spot, not dead last.

[hoolio]

It appears that even CBC has given up on the Sens. Either someone forgot to clean the lenses, or they didn't bother bringing the good HD camera to Scotiabank Place to broadcast this game.

[Golfbum]

You guys must be hurting up there in Ottawa knowing that the other Ontario team is ahead of you in the standings. (and they are also terrible)
Last season everyone was chirping the Leafs, now it is pretty quiet

Meanwhile life is good on the West Coast

[leftylucas]

Seeing there are 26 posts before yours I would say a lot of chirping at this end for our own team. As for chirping at the Leafs, I for one would like to see the Sens players have the same work ethic as the blue team. I would hedge my bets that Burke gets the Leafs back to the playoffs before Murray or his successor does.

[Golfbum]

Seeing there are 26 posts before yours I would say a lot of chirping at this end for our own team. As for chirping at the Leafs, I for one would like to see the Sens players have the same work ethic as the blue team. I would hedge my bets that Burke gets the Leafs back to the playoffs before Murray or his successor does.

It's hockey, it happens all the time. First to worst in one season.

Carolina won the Cup one year and missed the playoffs the next.

It is not the end of the world.

Maybe once the regular season is over Ottawa and Toronto could have a 7 game series to decide who picks first in the upcoming draft. Maybe make it a round robin event and toss in the Islanders! Winners get Johnny T

[Kiwi]

Did not hear it, but reported that Murray stated by the end of the week there will only be two goalies in Ottawa. Currently Elliott starting the next game, backed up by Auld. Gerbs is healthy scratch. Could mean Gerbs is gone, or that Murray is messin' with the press and sending someone down to the farm by the end of the week. What could we possibly get for our third string goalie? We already got the bag of pucks ...