Batting From The Other Side

[el tigre]

Where is a good cheap place to hit some balls in nepean area??? I live on Craig Henry..

Not quite Nepean, but the cheapest driving range I've ever found was at the Raceview/Falcon Ridge course across from Rideau Carleton Raceway. Range was open today (mats only) - $6 for a large bucket!

[eye2's]

Could we turn this back to something related to golf please.

I've always found Kevin Haime arrogant and for that reason I avoid his radio show and his driving range - even when he's the only one open. I was at the 19th TEE on Saturday and it is refreshing to be appreciated for the business I bring in. The only unfortunate aspect was that it was too wet for the grass hitting areas so we had to use the mats.

[broken27]

I've always found Kevin Haime arrogant and for that reason I avoid his radio show and his driving range - even when he's the only one open. I was at the 19th TEE on Saturday and it is refreshing to be appreciated for the business I bring in. The only unfortunate aspect was that it was too wet for the grass hitting areas so we had to use the mats.

To me, this is the most sensible way to show your displeasure with Mr. Haime. While I'm sure that one person not listening or frequenting his establishment probably won't cripple his finances, if EVERYONE who dislikes him or his views did it, he'd have no choice but to acquiesce.

Good on ya for taking the high road. (And I'm a Haime fan).

Cheers,
Dan

[Deep Woods]

Not that what I think matters, but I think everyone is makin' mountains out of molehills. Whether Kevin Haimes attitudes are correct is one thing, but he has the right to show his opinion whereever he wants - it just so happens he's got a radio show. If you want to make a stand, don't listen to his garbage. Don't get me wrong... I think he's dead wrong on a number of issues, but who are we to judge him?

We're doing exactly what he's doing, expressing an opinion through a media. We are just as right to express the opinion as he is to express his.

What does it matter? Speeches and words are more powerful than anything on earth, just look at films of Hitler revving up a crowd. Giving a moron a powerful media is a dangerous thing to do, and its EVERYONE's right and duty to stand up and express their opinion in response.

[broken27]

We're doing exactly what he's doing, expressing an opinion through a media. We are just as right to express the opinion as he is to express his.

What does it matter? Speeches and words are more powerful than anything on earth, just look at films of Hitler revving up a crowd. Giving a moron a powerful media is a dangerous thing to do, and its EVERYONE's right and duty to stand up and express their opinion in response.

So, I assume you're calling me a moron since I support Haime? Or are morons taking advantage of the powerful media they've been given here?

Let's not get nuts here and compare Haime to Hitler.... Besides which, we've been instructed to turn this back into something golf-related.

Dan

[Deep Woods]

So, I assume you're calling me a moron since I support Haime? Or are morons taking advantage of the powerful media they've been given here?

Let's not get nuts here and compare Haime to Hitler.... Besides which, we've been instructed to turn this back into something golf-related.

What the hell are you talking about? My comments about HITLER and a MORON are not related to you, but to the topic as a whole?

Ok, golf is great, don't think, just golf.

[4jag]

No question that Haime is comes across as arrogant, egotistical and his pompous superiority complex oozes through the speakers during his show.

That said I still listen most Saturdays because a) I am a golf nut and b) there is no competing show. I take what he says with a grain of salt - his show does help ease the long winter off-season.

Keep it in perspective just because he thinks (and insinuates) that he is better then the rest of us doesn't mean he is (except maybe on the course).

[mberube]

Taking his comments with a grain of salt is easy if you are not affected directly by his comments. Kevin stirred up allot of different opinions on a local forum with a local show. Lets see Mr Haime broadcast his comments on national TV during an LPGA tournament. I am sure he would be reprimanded of his stupid remarks.

This is why Don Cherry has a 7 minute delay on CBC!!!

I am all for freedom of speech but if you have a tool like a radio show you must use it with class and respect!

[mkemila]

Comments like that do more harm to our sport by casting the rest of us in the same insensitive light. I did not hear the broadcast....but believe that all who did and were offended should contact the station and let them know how you feel. Let those with the big mouths get back on the radio and publicly apologize.

I made the mistake of listening to the local radio "golf" show Saturday morning and after listening to the hosts drivel, or was it drool, for 45 minutes, I changed stations, thinking, "How can he get away with that?"

Instead of discussions about golf topics, which is what "Tee It Up" presumably stands for, the show was a springboard to talk about his yougster's winning hockey team and subsequent trip to Pizza Hut, about the various hockey and provincial flags that were being hung up or taken down, at a couple of locations in Ottawa, and about lesbians on the LPGA Tour.

About the latter he ridiculed Rosie Jones for coming out saying, "I'm gay. Let's go play golf," and them further ridiculed other ladies for "batting from the other side," a phrase he repeated several times. He stated that 50% of the LPGA members "bat from the other side," and made reference to all the extra curricular activity that went on after the day's play was finished at the DuMaurier in '95 at the Hunt Club, and he wasn't referring to a number of ladies who rented ice time and played hockey.

Give him credit for talking about the differences between cast and forged iron heads for about 60 seconds, suggesting that all players would be better off with a forged cavity back iron. I suppose that the profit margins are higher on these clubs.

It was refreshing to find out that the 19th Tee was open and that I could pay less money for more balls to people who appreciate my business, instead of expecting it.

Perhaps those who lack knowledge, understanding, tolerance, consideration, empathy and respect, are the ones "batting from the other side."

[mkemila]

Bulls eye!!

To me, this is the most sensible way to show your displeasure with Mr. Haime. While I'm sure that one person not listening or frequenting his establishment probably won't cripple his finances, if EVERYONE who dislikes him or his views did it, he'd have no choice but to acquiesce.

Good on ya for taking the high road. (And I'm a Haime fan).

Cheers,
Dan

[broken27]

Bulls eye!!

Maybe bull's eye, but I'm behind Haime on this 100%. STILL.

Cheers,
Dan

[mkemila]

the joys of democracy!!


Mark

Maybe bull's eye, but I'm behind Haime on this 100%. STILL.

Cheers,
Dan

[Deep Woods]

Maybe bull's eye, but I'm behind Haime on this 100%. STILL.

You need to smoke more, I think...

[yun]

You need to smoke more, I think...

YOu know, for a guy who claims to be all open minded and pro-tolerance, that's a rather narrowminded statement. That statement sure wasn't very 'nice' now was it? How is this statement any different than Kevin Haimes?

[Deep Woods]

YOu know, for a guy who claims to be all open minded and pro-tolerance, that's a rather narrowminded statement. That statement sure wasn't very 'nice' now was it? How is this statement any different than Kevin Haimes?

LOL...I don't know what you're reading into it! Please explain it to me.

How is "you should smoke more" low tolerance for a minority, or narrow minded?

Your comment smells like someone sticking up for a friend, which is cool, and if you want to determine my open mindedness from a one line forum comment, go ahead...

And by the way, i don't feel I do have an open mind about some issues. You'll never get me to be-little minorities, children, mentally disabled, or women, no matter how persecuted I feel as a white male in this big bad world. People are people the world over, and should be measured by their individual qualities, not their appearance or lifestyle.

[Deep Woods]

the joys of democracy!!

precisely.

[yun]

No, I'm not sticking up for a friend. It's just an observation. But tell me then, what exactly is that supposed to mean 'you should go smoke some more...?'

[mkemila]

There is a real simple solution to all this........if he has offended you (he has offended me)......don't do business with him. That is when you truly have someone's attention, when you affect his wallet$

Cheers
Mark

LOL...I don't know what you're reading into it! Please explain it to me.

How is "you should smoke more" low tolerance for a minority, or narrow minded?

Your comment smells like someone sticking up for a friend, which is cool, and if you want to determine my open mindedness from a one line forum comment, go ahead...

And by the way, i don't feel I do have an open mind about some issues. You'll never get me to be-little minorities, children, mentally disabled, or women, no matter how persecuted I feel as a white male in this big bad world. People are people the world over, and should be measured by their individual qualities, not their appearance or lifestyle.

[Deep Woods]

No, I'm not sticking up for a friend. It's just an observation. But tell me then, what exactly is that supposed to mean 'you should go smoke some more...?'

Sure...

His avatar is a bud/weed/ganga/the big bamboo/marry Ju wana/ wacky tabacky...I think he (and I for that matter) could benefit from a big puff...

Now, please explain how this is narrow minded, or low tolerance? I think you're saying its "low tolerance" of me to say that to him, but my use of low tolerance throughout the thread had to do with an automatic stereotyping, and THEN a be-littling of people based on this stereotype. I haven't stereotyped Broken at all. He's made his views clear, and I've made mine clear. Am I belittling him? Ya, sure, if you want, but that's not low tolerance, that's just being mean.

Guess what, I'm mean.

[Deep Woods]

There is a real simple solution to all this........if he has offended you (he has offended me)......don't do business with him. That is when you truly have someone's attention, when you affect his wallet$

I agree 100%. I actually was going to go to Haime's school for a short-game training, but I won't now. Maybe broken can send him a cheque.

The other solution is to make your opinion known through the only media totally accessible by the people: the Internet. With awareness comes tolerance. At least thats the theory.

[mkemila]

Exactly.....people should be able to shoot their mouths off yes......BUT that doesn't mean that I have to like, agree or accept it. I think too many people (especially in this town) kick the sand say they don't like something and then put up with it........we need some anarchy! (kidding)(got going there didn't I?)

I agree 100%. I actually was going to go to Haime's school for a short-game training, but I won't now. Maybe broken can send him a cheque.

The other solution is to make your opinion known through the only media totally accessible by the people: the Internet. With awareness comes tolerance. At least thats the theory.

[yun]

Sure...

His avatar is a bud/weed/ganga/the big bamboo/marry Ju wana/ wacky tabacky...I think he (and I for that matter) could benefit from a big puff...

Now, please explain how this is narrow minded, or low tolerance? I think you're saying its "low tolerance" of me to say that to him, but my use of low tolerance throughout the thread had to do with an automatic stereotyping, and THEN a be-littling of people based on this stereotype. I haven't stereotyped Broken at all. He's made his views clear, and I've made mine clear. Am I belittling him? Ya, sure, if you want, but that's not low tolerance, that's just being mean.

Guess what, I'm mean.

So how come belittling Broken is any different from Haime belittling lesbians? Don't get me wrong... I don't agree with the guy, one bit, but as I was saying before - Haime has just as much right to belittle lesbians as you do for belittling Broken. ALbiet his views are more... controversial to say the least, he can still say what he wants as long as it's not hes not telling other people what to believe. Look at this forum for instance. You brought up what Haime said - how many more people here hate lesbians more than before the broadcast. The only thing he's been able to accomplish is that he's a moron. But hey.. that's my opinion. I'm not telling you to think that. Yes yes.. you tolerate gays, minorities.. etc etc. That's great to hear, but you gotta tolerate other opinions aswell no matter how backwards they are. As for me, I'm never going back to the Haime range.

As for you being mean - I don't give a rats ass. Go nuts. So am I.

[Deep Woods]

So how come belittling Broken is any different from Haime belittling lesbians?

Hmmm, tough one, but let me try. One, Broken has a chance to respond. Two, this is an open forum, where any one can respond. Three, Broken is not attacked on a daily basis verbally for anything OTHER than his views...which is known commonly in the free world as debate, not narrow-mindedness. Four, there is no "Broken-sexual-orientation" and resulting stereotype, and resulting narrow-mindedness, and therefore my "belittling" (which I don't even really see it as that, as I smoke too) is not linked to anything OTHER than his (and my) opinion. Five, this isn't a broadcasted radio show. Six, I don't have any leeway with the crowd (I'm not using my golf-status to promote a "view" in other words). Seven, Broken (and his friends) are perfectly able to defend themselves, without being suddenly labeled "a spokesperson" for a way of life. Eight, no one beats up Broken, or threatens him, for his way of life (maybe for other things, but not how he looks/acts/behaves behind close doors). Nine, Broken doesn't have to fear expressing himself in the face of negativity, except maybe me, again, see debate. Jesus, I'm up to ten: my complaint about Haimes (or anyone promoting a thoughtless and hurtful view) is not a BELITTLING issue (which you've brought it around to), but LOW TOLERANCE and NARROW MINDEDNESS. Haime made his comment based on NO FACTS, just a joke he felt was appropriate. My position was that it isn't that appropriate. Again, my comment that broken needs to smoke more is in response to his comments, not a blanket statement, and its appropriateness is considered only by two people: broken and myself. Broken can determine if he needs to smoke more, and my position was that he does. So the answer to your question "why is it any different" is clear.

You brought up what Haime said

No I didn't.

how many more people here hate lesbians more than before the broadcast.

Hardly the point, who can say, and how is that relevant? I think Woody's comment, which was totally open, daring and brilliant, did a lot on this small island of a golf forum.

That's great to hear, but you gotta tolerate other opinions aswell no matter how backwards they are.

Your endorsement thrills me, as I've always looked up to you, but in response to your point, I "gotta" tolerate all opinions: no I don't. That's what freedom of choice is about. I tolerate what I choose to tolerate, I dont HAVE to tolerate anything else. I can listen, formulate a position, and respond. Just as broken is chosing NOT to tolerate my position. Only goose-steppers tolerate any opinion.

As for you being mean - I don't give a rats ass.

Then don't ask.

[yun]

Freedom of choice is just as important as freedom of speech. I'm not telling you, nor is anyone else, to accept his opinion. I'm saying we must tolerate his right to express his opinion. Maybe that's where the misunderstanding is.

Oh... and I never asked about you being mean/nice. I was alluding to a previous post about 'if it's not nice, it shouldn't be out there' by someone

[Deep Woods]

Freedom of choice is just as important as freedom of speech.

Yes, I agree, that's why I'm debating...were full circle.

Oh... and I never asked about you being mean/nice. I was alluding to a previous post about 'if it's not nice, it shouldn't be out there' by someone

I liked Woody's post...it said a lot to the point at hand. I personally believe that some lines should be drawn. By your equation, anti-semitic, racist and all-related statements should be given free reign. I tend to disagree, because I don't believe in black-and-white rules. The reason a society progresses is from its ability to shift its general opinions. That's why blacks can ride buses today.

[yun]

Freedom of choice is just as important as freedom of speech.

Yes, I agree, that's why I'm debating...were full circle.

Oh... and I never asked about you being mean/nice. I was alluding to a previous post about 'if it's not nice, it shouldn't be out there' by someone

I liked Woody's post...it said a lot to the point at hand. I personally believe that some lines should be drawn. By your equation, anti-semitic, racist and all-related statements should be given free reign. I tend to disagree, because I don't believe in black-and-white rules. The reason a society progresses is from its ability to shift its general opinions. That's why blacks can ride buses today.

And really, is there freedom of the press and freedom of speech? Whens the last newspaper article or news show you put out?

lines should be drawn - ok. As I've previously mentioned... if it's not promoting hatred i.e. telling people to round up all minorities, etc, it's fair game. If some guy comes out and his hardcore racist - hey, that's his opinion. I don't agree with it, but he has the right to say it if he wants to. And I should hope people aren't backwards enough to believe it. But like you said, freedom of choice - you chose not to accept/tolerate that opinion. Other people should be given the same oppotrunity to make that choice. Like I said... look at the Haime situation. He's said something that is many people don't agree with, and they've made their decision about him and his ideals. I should hope people in society are at least open minded enough to be able to make that choice - and the right one at that. By taking away his right to voice his opinion (within' the lines that I've repeatedly said), we take away out ability to explore other possibilities. What's next? The world is round?

[mberube]

Maybe bull's eye, but I'm behind Haime on this 100%. STILL.

Cheers,
Dan

Hey Dan, I see that you are enjoying this at a distance???

[Deep Woods]

By taking away his right to voice his opinion (within' the lines that I've repeatedly said), we take away out ability to explore other possibilities. What's next? The world is round?

Yes, I agree.

[broken27]

Hey Dan, I see that you are enjoying this at a distance???

I've basically stated everything I feel I needed to. This recent bunch of posts happened after I went to sleep.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with Deep Woods. We've talked on PM and I can't see either of us agreeing with the other. For my part, at least I respect his opinion on the subject. I disagree with it (which is apparently tantamount to "not understanding it"), but I'm perfectly willing to let him have his opinion. It's not my battle to fight (lesbian rights or whatever). If he wants to take up every little issue, let him! It's his time he's wasting.

Dan

[Deep Woods]

I've basically stated everything I feel I needed to.

Yes, so did I...

For my part, at least I respect his opinion on the subject.

Whatever...that wasn't my impression.


I'm not going to waste my time arguing with Deep Woods...If he wants to take up every little issue, let him! It's his time he's wasting.

Ya, I think this statement says it all.