Sens in a lot of trouble unless????

**leftylucas** · 10-20-2008 10:38 AM

In watching the game on Saturday I came to the conclusion that the defensive play of the Sens needs much, much work (brilliant deduction huh?). The defense looked like it was standing still against Boston especially when the Bruins forwards were able to pass at our blueline and skate by the D to get several 2 on 1s. That game could have easily been a real blowout. The Coyotes did the same in the 3rd period on Friday, skate all over the Sens.

The coach better do something or we will soon be sharing the basement with the Leafs for a prolonged period of time. The Bruin forwards were entering the zone unimpeded and with speed that made the defense look really bad. The Kessel goal to make it 4-2 showed Heatly make a feable attempt to back check him but it was really weak.

Gerbs was better and made some nice stops but if the puck continues to fly off his pads back toward the attacking team almost as quickly as they shoot it, then things will get seriously bad in a hurry. You cannot give the opposition continued chances. He has terrible rebound control.

I am not sure what system Hartsburg is trying to instill but so far it is obviously not much different than what we have seen in the last 30 games with the Sens. Here is an equation for you

Lousy defense + Big rebounds = bottom of the division

Our offensive power will win us games but until we tighten up substantially defensively we will not get much better. Giving up 34 shots/game and being in the bottom 6 of the league in shots allowed is not what Hartsburg was shooting for. Improvement needs to come in a hurry. In a few short weeks it will be the 1 year annniversary of the start of the Sens meltdown and there are no signs of imporvement to date, changed names only.

**Weazl** · 10-20-2008 10:40 AM

We always lose to Boston for some reason. Lets see how we do on our next 4 game stand.

**justsomeguy** · 10-20-2008 10:44 AM

They have a new coach and have only played 5 games - and 3 of them were against the two teams from last years' Stanley Cup finals. I'm willing to cut them a little slack.

**Weazl** · 10-20-2008 10:51 AM

Agreed, and that 5 games in like 20 nights or so.

**leftylucas** · 10-20-2008 11:02 AM

I dont disagree that it is early but holy crap, I see zero improvement in defensive play and shots allowed and if you look at the last 50 games the Sens have played, the defense is more than suspect. All I am saying is we better expect to be seeing some bad games for a while. I hope that Hartsburg finds a good fit for the first line and can get the second line going with Alfie or teams will keep shutting down that trio and then we have to rely on the secondary scoring which hopefully will get much better.

**leftylucas** · 10-20-2008 11:46 AM

I dont disagree guys but my Post does say "unless" and here is what I mean.

Lets review what Hartsburg has to improve upon. Not goals for thats for sure, we finished first there.
Sens finished 24th in GAA and I think they were the lowest team in this category that actually made the playoffs. They were 19th in shots against and 23rd in SV%. Not what we expect from an "elite" team.

Now, can the picture be any clearer as to what the Sens need to improve upon in order to compete for a playoff spot and for the actual cup. Lots of goals scored can win you a lot of games but also can cloud the real picture of a poor defensive team. The scoring frenzy drops significantly in the playoffs and if we have only the one big line without greatly improved defense then we will be a quick out in the first round just like last spring. Let's hope hartsburg makes a great change to the defensive play

**Golfbum** · 10-21-2008 08:38 AM

Funny thing is about GAA. The Oilers in their glory days gave up lots of goals. Grant Fuhr had one of the highest GAA averages of any Stanley Cup winning goalie.

5 games into the season and some Sens fans are in a panic mode?

Hartsburg is a good coach, give him some time.

**davevandyk** · 10-21-2008 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Golfbum

Funny thing is about GAA. The Oilers in their glory days gave up lots of goals. Grant Fuhr had one of the highest GAA averages of any Stanley Cup winning goalie.

5 games into the season and some Sens fans are in a panic mode?

Hartsburg is a good coach, give him some time.

I totally agree, some of these Sens fans are starting to worry me. This isn't the NFL, one or two losses does not define whether you are in or out of the playoffs. The Sens have only played a handful of games, there are a bunch of new faces, especially on the back end. Give them and Hartsburg some time to adjust. We saw what happened when they got off to a killer start, maybe a slower start will do the opposite!!

**Big Johnny69** · 10-21-2008 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by davevandyk

I totally agree, some of these Sens fans are starting to worry me. This isn't the NFL, one or two losses does not define whether you are in or out of the playoffs. The Sens have only played a handful of games, there are a bunch of new faces, especially on the back end. Give them and Hartsburg some time to adjust. We saw what happened when they got off to a killer start, maybe a slower start will do the opposite!!

The coach isn't using that as an excuse. Did anyone else read the article in the Citizen today? Hartsburg wants a better effort and results now. He's not at all pleased with the effort put forth so far.

**leftylucas** · 10-21-2008 03:24 PM

Relax boys, the post says they are in big trouble "unless". Changes to the lines will stir things up. This will expose Spezza big time if he ignores backchecking and coughs up the puck. I would have put Vermette at the Centre of Alfie and Heatley and left Fisher on the 3rd line with the pest and Neil, thats a banging line.

**golfisforfun** · 10-21-2008 04:32 PM

The only way the Sens will win games is by outworking their opponents. They will never win based on skill because they just don't have it.

There are NO other goalie options out there that would be an improvement so they better get used to the guys they have.

They have 10 3rd and 4th line players on their team who could never be 2nd line players on any other team.

**Golfbum** · 10-21-2008 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by golfisforfun

The only way the Sens will win games is by outworking their opponents. They will never win based on skill because they just don't have it.

There are NO other goalie options out there that would be an improvement so they better get used to the guys they have.

They have 10 3rd and 4th line players on their team who could never be 2nd line players on any other team.

They have more talent than the other NHL team in Ontario

Every NHL team has to out work their opponents, regardless of the skill they have on their team.

**justsomeguy** · 10-21-2008 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by golfisforfun

The only way the Sens will win games is by outworking their opponents. They will never win based on skill because they just don't have it.

Yeah, I guess the fact that they were the highest-scoring team in the league last year was pure luck!

**Wilster** · 10-21-2008 09:02 PM

I don't see the Sens being in any sort of trouble yet , they were poor against boston , but have shown signs of being more stable at the back with the addition of Smith and Kuba , i think this team are still looking for the right chemistry on the 2nd and 3rd lines , but they're not that far away from getting it right.Gerber has played well , a bit of bad luck against Detroit , and fairley solid against Boston.
The Sens will be Ok ,let there be no doubt.

**leftylucas** · 10-23-2008 03:08 PM

Well last night was a great indication of what the Sens have been like since January. This team can score but when your goalie is not stopping pucks that barely slide past him there is something wrong. The real test will be tomrrow and Saturday when they play desperate teams. Toronto has a great work ethic and the Ducks are starting to get mean and want to win. If Auld plays well he will get the start in TO as well. If that is the case and he plays well and gets his team 2 wins then I think he will earn the coach's favour. Team defense seems to be a big problem and the first period last night showed how fragile it is.

**Indio** · 10-23-2008 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by leftylucas

The coach better do something or we will soon be sharing the basement with the Leafs for a prolonged period of time.

Luc, remind me to slap you the next time we tee it up together

**LobWedge** · 10-23-2008 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Indio

Luc, remind me to slap you the next time we tee it up together

It's okay Bob you don't need to slap him now, they're not sharing the basement anymore.

**golfisforfun** · 10-24-2008 09:35 AM

OTHER PLAYERS NEED TO SHARE THE BLAME...

I am not sure why Gerber continues to get almost all the blame and other players seem to get a free pass.

Should Gerber have saved the Cory Stillman goal the other night? maybe...

Should Vermette have scored when he had an EMPTY net? YES. 100%. He shot it in the goalies glove. The goalie did not make the save, Vermette missed. Plain and simple. It is his fault they didn't at least tie the game.

Should Heatley have scored on the one-timer right beside the net? YES. 100%. He is paid a lot of money to score the big goals. He shot it right at the goalies pad along the ice. He had the entire 2 thirds of the net open and missed. It is his fault they didn't at least tie the game.

Was it Gerbers fault Stillman was left all alone to get that scorig chance? I don't think so...

**Foddz** · 10-24-2008 10:02 AM

Having played hockey, I know for a fact that win or lose, its always a team effort. Maybe one person screwed up and caused the game winning goal, but who else screwed up that put you in that situation in the first place?

That said, Gerber is looking very shaky. He is a confidence goaltender, and he does not have a team in front of him that inspires confidence. There are far too many turnovers or 'almost-turnovers' occuring right around the net. In particular, that lazy pass infront of Gerber that resulted in a goal in the 1st period sticks out in my mind as characteristic of the Sens general lack of defensive coordination.

Calling for blood this early in the season just isn't productive. Give it time. There's a lot of things left to try. Presumably we hired a coach who hasn't used up all the tricks in his bag yet. Presumably we have a GM who would consider trading Gerber for the right price. If you don't have confidence in either of those contingencies, then you're probably better off ignoring the Sens entirely this season instead of incessantly belly-aching about their woes

**golfisforfun** · 10-24-2008 10:08 AM

And the BIGGEST free pass of all is being given to the GM.

Brian Murray has done nothing to improve the players on this team. Since he started, goaltending has been a big issue. That has not improved.

Corvo, Preissing (sp?), Redden, Meszaros, Chara all gone for nothing!!! Sorry, they got a few players for Meszaros, but nothing great for sure...

They needed secondary scoring and have added nothing to help that situation.

GM has to go!!!

**spackler** · 10-24-2008 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by golfisforfun

And the BIGGEST free pass of all is being given to the GM.

Brian Murray has done nothing to improve the players on this team. Since he started, goaltending has been a big issue. That has not improved.

Corvo, Preissing (sp?), Redden, Meszaros, Chara all gone for nothing!!! Sorry, they got a few players for Meszaros, but nothing great for sure...

They needed secondary scoring and have added nothing to help that situation.

GM has to go!!!

I'm not sure that Murray has been great as a GM, but letting Chara go was Muckler, and giving the no-trade to Redden that prevented Murray from getting anything for him was Muckler also. The Gerber contract, which makes it impossible to get rid of him and too expensive to buy him out, was Muckler as well....though Razor's was all Murray.

Sens fans need to relax, it's practically a complete overhaul on the defense side, and a new coach on top of that. It's not going to be instant chemistry, these things take time. If it's all a bit too hard to watch, definitely cast your eyes to the east where the Habs are plenty fun to watch.

**Weazl** · 10-24-2008 11:04 AM

I think Kuba has looked decent so far, and Smith has looked ok. Demoting Brian Lee for Luke Richardson was stupid though. Maybe we'll win tonight.

**Hacker** · 10-24-2008 12:35 PM

I think we got good value for Meszaros - Kuba is tied for first on the Sens in scoring. He is also tied for 6th in the league in assists and tied for 18th in the league for points. Picard could develop into a powerplay kind of player and let's not forget that we also got a First Round Pick!!

In terms of blame there is certainly a lot of that to go around. How do Fisher and Vermette escape the blame game given their performances to date?

Spezza seems to have been annointed as the new Ottawa Whipping boy with Redden gone, but despite his well documented turn-overs he still leads the team with 8 points in 6 games and he is only 25. With the proper coaching he could very well be a Steve Yzerman type player.......Stevie Y couldn't play defence until late into his 20's.........

The defence is certainly playing below their level of ability and Gerber has not been very good so far.........I'm reading rumours that Chicago is pushing hard with Murray to take Khabibulin off of their hands

It would be interesting to see how that deal would be structured. One thing is for sure, Chicago would have to take Gerbs off of our hands but that deal would leave Murray with no flexibility to bring in a puck moving d-man.

Interesting times for us armchair GM types

**sillywilly** · 10-24-2008 01:22 PM

the problem is gerber. He is letting in brutal goals! it must suck to work hard, be tied and then have your siv of a goalie let in a weak one. You heard it here first, auld will take over the starting goalie spot by sat. he will play great, they will win both games and he will be the new #1 goalie. spezza on the second line mean he will do what he always does, turn the puck over more, but without the checking line on him he will score a lot more. its all upto heatly and alfie to carry this team.

trade spezza and gerber

**golfisforfun** · 10-24-2008 03:19 PM

OK, let's try this from another angle... I am a Habs fan. Carey Price has let in at least one bad goal every game so far. The Habs have not lost in regulation. Why? Because they have enough skill and offensive talent to support their goalie.

Gerber has to basically be perfect for the Sens to win. The fans will not allow him to make a mistake. BUT it is ok for the other players to make mistakes, like missing wide open nets...

**Mattchew** · 10-24-2008 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by golfisforfun

OK, let's try this from another angle... I am a Habs fan. Carey Price has let in at least one bad goal every game so far. The Habs have not lost in regulation. Why? Because they have enough skill and offensive talent to support their goalie.

Gerber has to basically be perfect for the Sens to win. The fans will not allow him to make a mistake. BUT it is ok for the other players to make mistakes, like missing wide open nets...

Montreal and Ottawa are two teams built much differently. Montreal is a fast skilled team that lacks in size. Murray built this team to be bigger more hard to play against, with allot of character. The problem is the sens are playing lazy hockey. Takes them a period to get in the game which they fall behind or they play very solid to start and get into bad habbits late in the game that allows teams to get back into it. If this team starts playing 60 min hockey they will be very hard to play against. Montreal will do well until they start to get a little banged up and they will fall back like they have the last couple of season late in December and Jan. I would put Ottawa at the top of the list right now for most uninspired, lazy hockey team in the league. Just need somthing to kick start them when they are down and a big save or two will do that, but they just dont get it from Gerber.

**Kiwi** · 10-26-2008 08:32 PM

It is early, not time to panic... yet. Remember last year we were on a record setting pace and would beat the old Montreal mark for wins in a season? We just need to be good enough to sneak into 8th and it will be a successful year.

On another note (sarcastic as it may be) I recall being heavily chastised for questioning the acquisition of "character" players (i.e. Smith). I am glad we now have a solid dressing room, but just wondering when all that "talent" will spill out onto the ice?

Ref last entry by Mattchew, since when are "character" players "lazy". Thought the terms were mutually exclusive. Thought character meant that you ALWAYS played up to your potential? Have not seen to many characters this year, not even Neil. Maybe someone does need to drop the gloves and take a "stupid" penalty to wake this bunch up.

**golfisforfun** · 10-27-2008 02:08 PM

I think the Sens have sown the talent they have this year. They are not a talented hockey team. The defence is playing up to their ability.

The powerplay will be the key this year because they don't even have 2 good scoring lines for 5 on 5 hockey.

One big problem is the Sens are not the only team looking for a goalie and not the only team looking for a puck moving defenceman. The Sens also don't have much to offer in return.

**Shivas Irons** · 10-27-2008 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Kiwi

It is early, not time to panic...

You got that right.
Those who are perpetuating the so called 'panic' are not Sens fans, but others simply wallowing in the Sens current futility. Now is not the time to make a trade, and Murray knows it. This team just needs some time to gel.
Brian Elliot is going to get his chance to shine soon, and he will.

**Mattchew** · 10-27-2008 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Kiwi

It is early, not time to panic... yet. Remember last year we were on a record setting pace and would beat the old Montreal mark for wins in a season? We just need to be good enough to sneak into 8th and it will be a successful year.

On another note (sarcastic as it may be) I recall being heavily chastised for questioning the acquisition of "character" players (i.e. Smith). I am glad we now have a solid dressing room, but just wondering when all that "talent" will spill out onto the ice?

Ref last entry by Mattchew, since when are "character" players "lazy". Thought the terms were mutually exclusive. Thought character meant that you ALWAYS played up to your potential? Have not seen to many characters this year, not even Neil. Maybe someone does need to drop the gloves and take a "stupid" penalty to wake this bunch up.

Character means allot more than just plaing 100% every game. Its not the Character guys that are the lazy ones anyways. Heatly, Spezza, Vermette and so on are playing very lazy uninspred hockey. Alfie is picking it up but at first he was making some very un-characteristic plays. The "Character guys like Ruttu and Smith who were brought in to play the in your face hockey seem to be getting it. Just need Phillips and Volchankov to follow suit! They will get it together. And when they do I think that will be a hard team to beat!

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