A Comedy of Errors

[BC MIST]

Okay, this is what I ended up with.

1 - stroke from tee
Can't declare a provisional under 26-1
2 - stroke and distance
3 - next stroke from tee with substituted ball
4 & 5 - for pocketing "provisional" (which is actually now the ball in play), 18-2a(i)
6 & 7 - playing from wrong place, 20-7c

IMO, the remainder of the strokes do not count because of Note 1 in 20-7. Even though he has played out the hole without correcting his error "he has gained a significant advantage as a result of playing from a wrong place" and is disqualified on that point, and not because of a failure to correct the mistake before playing from the next tee.

My list of errors:
(1) Improper substitution of a ball under an inapplicable rule. (The "provisional.")PEN- 2 strokes
(2) Playing from a wrong place - serious breach. PEN-2 strokes
(3) Moving ball in play.(When he abandoned BIP to play original) PEN-1 stroke
(4) Playing a wrong ball. PEN-2 strokes

(1) is eliminated because of the exception to 15-2 where it says that there is no additional penalty for substituting a ball when not permitted, if a player has incurred a penalty for playing from a wrong place. (3) and (4) would stand. Without correction - disqualification

Now, if he realized that he had screwed up and decided to regress to the tee because his playing from the wrong place was a serious breach, would he still have to count the 2 strokes for playing a wrong ball? I say, yes.

STROKES:
1st - tee shot
2nd - penalty - stroke and "distance" for lost ball
3rd - played dropped ball
4th & 5th - penalties for playing from wrong place
6th - penalty for moving ball in play
7th & 8th - penalties for playing a wrong ball
9th - would be his shot from the tee

Other opinions??

[LobWedge]

Ach! I missed wrong ball (I had it in my head that wrong ball and wrong place were the same thing). I now get 9 as well, but from a different "angle".

Lyle, if you read the note at the end of rule 18, I infer from it that the penalties under that rule are mutually exclusive, ie. if he picks up his ball and then replaces it, he earns a one stroke penalty. But, reading the note "If a player who is required to replace a ball fails to do so... he incurs the general penalty for breach of Rule 18, but there is no additional penalty under this Rule.", he only receives the 2 stroke penalty for moving the ball and not replacing it, not 2 + 1. Make sense?

Also, I don't understand where you get your 9th stroke from.

[BC MIST]

Ach! I missed wrong ball (I had it in my head that wrong ball and wrong place were the same thing). I now get 9 as well, but from a different "angle".

Lyle, if you read the note at the end of rule 18, I infer from it that the penalties under that rule are mutually exclusive, ie. if he picks up his ball and then replaces it, he earns a one stroke penalty. But, reading the note "If a player who is required to replace a ball fails to do so... he incurs the general penalty for breach of Rule 18, but there is no additional penalty under this Rule.", he only receives the 2 stroke penalty for moving the ball and not replacing it, not 2 + 1. Make sense?

Also, I don't understand where you get your 9th stroke from.

I see your point, but...

This was my thinking. He picks up the ball, (1 stroke) plays the wrong ball, (2 strokes) realizes that the ball he picked up is in play and then takes it back to the place where it should have been played from in the first place because of the serious breach of the wrong place rule, and replaces it on the tee.

If he replaced the ball at the point from which he picked it up, his penalty would be 1 stroke for 18-2a, and if he then went back to the tee, the second stroke would not apply. Replacing and then going back to the tee, or just going directly back to the tee, to me, are the same actions and so only 1 stroke would be added. How flawed is my logic?

IMO, he would be playing his 9th stroke from the tee, i.e., 2 strokes plus 6 penalty strokes.

[LobWedge]

But according to the original situation, he never goes back to the tee, he holes out with the wrong ball. The DQ would have applied as soon as he made the stroke at the wrong ball from the wrong place. He wouldn't have an opportunity to correct his error even if he tried, because the DQ would take place three "strokes" before he holed out. He's not even playing golf anymore after that point.

Actually, he's probably "seriously breached" a number of rules by that point. One could argue that he was DQ the moment he picked up, and pocketed the ball in play.

[BC MIST]

But according to the original situation, he never goes back to the tee, he holes out with the wrong ball. The DQ would have applied as soon as he made the stroke at the wrong ball from the wrong place. He wouldn't have an opportunity to correct his error even if he tried, because the DQ would take place three "strokes" before he holed out. He's not even playing golf anymore after that point.

Actually, he's probably "seriously breached" a number of rules by that point. One could argue that he was DQ the moment he picked up, and pocketed the ball in play.

Considering only the original situation, you are correct in saying that he would be disqualified. However, I am unsure as to why you would say that he would be DQ'd "as soon as he made the stroke at the wrong ball from the wrong place."

Both 20-7a (wrong place) and 15-3b (wrong ball) allow for correction "before making a stroke on the next teeing ground." Therefore, even after holing out, he regresses through the wrong ball to where he played from a wrong place and corrects, by going back to the tee, the place from which the ball should have been played. The strokes played with the wrong ball do NOT count so he adds two penalty strokes for the WB, 2 for the WP, plus the others and corrects.

One could argue that he was DQ the moment he picked up, and pocketed the ball in play. Moving a ball in play is a one stroke penalty, not disqualification. If I do this and start to walk in, for example, and a short time later change my mind, I can go back to the point where I picked up my ball, replace it, and play on, assuming play was not unduly delayed.

[LobWedge]

I guess I'm of the mind that he's gained a significant advantage over the rest of the field by pocketing the ball in play (Rule 1-2 Note), and finishing out with the wrong ball from the wrong place to boot.

Maybe that's just me being a hard-ass, but Rule 6-1 does say that the player and his caddie are responsible for knowing the rules, and as we well know, ignorance is not a defence.

[BC MIST]

I guess I'm of the mind that he's gained a significant advantage over the rest of the field by pocketing the ball in play (Rule 1-2 Note), and finishing out with the wrong ball from the wrong place to boot.

But by doing so he gets himself disqualified if he hits from the next tee, and if he goes back, he is 9 off the tee. Appropriate penalties and hardly advantageous.

Regardless, while the scenario presented was involved, hopefully anyone reading the posts gained a little knowledge about the rules.