Running up the score

[Chieflongtee]

In tennis is it is badly viewed when someone beats the crap out of someone else 6-0 6-0?

Should a boxer fighter/fighter slack off when he is ahead in the fight?

Do baseball teams hold back when scoring a bunch of points?

Do racecar drivers ease off the pedal when ahead in a race?



Whether you lke the pats or not why oh why would it be different in Football?

[jvincent]

I will say it depends on the situation.

In a lot of leagues goal/point differential is often used to break ties, so in those scenarios scoring as many points as possible makes sense.

I've been on both ends of blowout scores in hockey. When we were on the winning side we dialed it back from all out intensity but didn't stop trying to score once it was safe.

[hoolio]

I don't understand how someone can say that teams should let their foot off the pedal in any instance when talking about professional sports. These teams spend millions of dollars every year on personnel and other strategy to improve their team, it's not like a group of really good 12 year olds trying to send another group of 12 year olds home crying in house-league play.

The fact of the matter is these guys have dedicated life to their sport as a profession, and if they can't win, they should up their effort level and look at what the winning guys are doing and copy that.

I don't know about the rest of you, but as a fan, I would rather watch a team get their ass handed to them until the last whistle than see the winners let off. In the long run it should make the other team work harder, become a better team, and ultimately lead to more interesting games to watch.

[sillywilly]

Should a boxer fighter/fighter slack off when he is ahead in the fight?
Do baseball teams hold back when scoring a bunch of points?

Boxers don't slack off, they defend more and attack less but not for the reasons you think. they just don't want to get knocked out or injured when they already have it won.

In baseball teams don't steal bases with a huge lead. They don't swing on 3-0 pitches with a huge lead. If they do the guy will get popped in the head at his next at bat. In football teams pull their BQ in the 4th Q and any star. Bunting when the pitches has a no-hitter going. So, yes they hold back when they have a big lead. They do it in football, basketball and baseball.

This is my understanding, I sports like tennis and golf these guys give their 100% from start to finnish. In team sports its not the case.

[Golfbum]

Boxers don't slack off, they defend more and attack less but not for the reasons you think. they just don't want to get knocked out or injured when they already have it won.

In baseball teams don't steal bases with a huge lead. They don't swing on 3-0 pitches with a huge lead. If they do the guy will get popped in the head at his next at bat. In football teams pull their BQ in the 4th Q and any star. Bunting when the pitches has a no-hitter going. So, yes they hold back when they have a big lead. They do it in football, basketball and baseball.

This is my understanding, I sports like tennis and golf these guys give their 100% from start to finnish. In team sports its not the case.

Your understanding of teams sports is wrong. I have watched many JR Hockey games over the past 12 years. I have seen teams that had a 4 goal lead going into the 3rd period. I have seen those teams take their foot off the gas. Next thing you know the score is tied and the team that had that 4 goal lead is flat on their a**es and struggling to get back into the game.

Hammer down in pro sports. Tell me why a team that is playing better than the other team should let off? If the other team can not compete then so be it.

Let's face the facts Willy. You just have a hate for Tom Brady. If he was the QB of your team I bet you would be happy he was firing TD's late in a game with a big lead.

I say pedal to the metal at all times in any sports. You snooze, you lose! I agree with Hoolia, hand it to them if they can not compete! Maybe next time they come back to play they'll be prepared to play harder.

[justsomeguy]

In all sports I believe it is incumbent upon the loser to concede defeat rather than for the winner to concede victory.

[sillywilly]

someone asked a question, I answered it. You are saying its wrong to take your pedal off the gas. Well then I guess every player in the NHL, NFL and NBA knows less about team sports than you guys because that is what they do. its not my opinion, its a fact. I'm not really sure how you can argue it.

Let's face the facts Willy. You just have a hate for Tom Brady. If he was the QB of your team I bet you would be happy he was firing TD's late in a game with a big lead.

Rick, I've been saying that since last year. I hate the guy, I hate his team and I heat the coach for being a cheater. To be in a game late and throwing TDs when the backup should be in and they should be running the ball and eating the clock... for what? to break a record? Anyone remember when manning had a chance to break marinos record at home and it was first and 10 on the 6 yard line? The guy took a knee. The fans booed but he said it was the right thing to do and he didn't want to break such an important record the "cheap" way. Brady is cheap. The entire franchise is cheap.

[3Jack]

Brady is cheap.

This is the only point on which I will disagree. True sportsmen are a rare commodity these days, and I'd call Brady, and Manning for that matter, true sportsmen. I've never seen either of them put themselves before the their team, nor before their sport.

[jeffc]

Pedal to the Metal as far as I am concerned. I think the Bulgarian women's hockey team may disagree though:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,106362

[Chambokl]

For all the Willy of the world now we have to give a trophy to all the kids on the team because we don't want to hurt their pride. It is OK little Johnny, i know you missed ¾ of the games, you have no interest in practicing, you don't listen to the coach and basically your mom is forcing you to play but here is your trophy for being such a good athlete... I must be old school...

The worst insult you can make to an athlete is to take pity on them. Nice pass, I have an open net but I will go in the corner now because I don't want to score too many goals it looks bad...

[1972Apex]

Boxers don't slack off, they defend more and attack less but not for the reasons you think. they just don't want to get knocked out or injured when they already have it won.

In baseball teams don't steal bases with a huge lead. They don't swing on 3-0 pitches with a huge lead. If they do the guy will get popped in the head at his next at bat. In football teams pull their BQ in the 4th Q and any star. Bunting when the pitches has a no-hitter going. So, yes they hold back when they have a big lead. They do it in football, basketball and baseball.

This is my understanding, I sports like tennis and golf these guys give their 100% from start to finnish. In team sports its not the case.

I can't believe I am going to say this, but I agree with Willy on this one... although I am really a big fan of Tom Brady
There are a few reasons why PROFESSIONAL sports teams may let off in a blowout game, and silly has listed a few good ones above. The most important is that professionals do not like to be embarassed publicly. Willy is right, steal a base with a huge lead and you could get popped in the head next at bat.
As well, teams want to protect their stars and maybe give them a rest now and then. How would you like to lose your star player late in a blowout game?
As for the Patriots running up the score late in the games last year. Well, it was their choice. They had their reasons and some other teams didn't mind. Some fans and other teams hated it though. I believe that strategy was more Bellichek than Brady though....

[Kiwi]

Sorry, letting up is WRONG. For two reasons, one, they are paid professionals, paid to do a job. You let up, you're not earning your money. You pay to see your team win and then they let up. Would you be happy? Ever, Ever seen a home crowd happy when the team takes a knee (in football) to end the half. No way, they pay to watch them play. The other reason, and the most important one, if you are not going at 100% the you are risking injury, cause the other team has not given up. And if they think you are easing up on them, then they are more PEED than if they think you are running up the score. To me easing up is the same as a guy at work leaving early cause his work is done. Your work is NEVER done, finish the job, move on the next one. Sorry, I'm from the old school, the last generation that thinks work is something to be proud of. WoW what was in that coffee?

[Golfbum]

someone asked a question, I answered it. You are saying its wrong to take your pedal off the gas. Well then I guess every player in the NHL, NFL and NBA knows less about team sports than you guys because that is what they do. its not my opinion, its a fact. I'm not really sure how you can argue it.

Let's face the facts Willy. You just have a hate for Tom Brady. If he was the QB of your team I bet you would be happy he was firing TD's late in a game with a big lead.

Rick, I've been saying that since last year. I hate the guy, I hate his team and I heat the coach for being a cheater. To be in a game late and throwing TDs when the backup should be in and they should be running the ball and eating the clock... for what? to break a record? Anyone remember when manning had a chance to break marinos record at home and it was first and 10 on the 6 yard line? The guy took a knee. The fans booed but he said it was the right thing to do and he didn't want to break such an important record the "cheap" way. Brady is cheap. The entire franchise is cheap.

Well Depe do you think Tiger will "Shut Er Down" when he gets to 17 Majors because Jack's Major Record should not be broken? Tiger would not want to embarrass Jack would he?

Oh yeah, what about The Great One's records? I suppose some young gun goal scorer will retire the game after he is one goal short of Wayne's record?

Records are made to be broken.

Tell me something. You and I are playing a round of golf together. You caught me on an off day and as you stand on the 18th green you have a 3 footer for birdie. If you make that bird you will have shot your lowest score of your career.

You have me beat by 8 strokes. I have 8 feet for a double. Do you miss your putt on purpose after I sink that putt for double?

I doubt it, and if you say you would then you are a liar. You would be lining that putt up from every angle to make sure you have it read right.

Hammer down at all time IMO.

[LobWedge]

Well Depe do you think Tiger will "Shut Er Down" when he gets to 17 Majors because Jack's Major Record should not be broken? Tiger would not want to embarrass Jack would he?

Oh yeah, what about The Great One's records? I suppose some young gun goal scorer will retire the game after he is one goal short of Wayne's record?

Records are made to be broken.

Tell me something. You and I are playing a round of golf together. You caught me on an off day and as you stand on the 18th green you have a 3 footer for birdie. If you make that bird you will have shot your lowest score of your career.

You have me beat by 8 strokes. I have 8 feet for a double. Do you miss your putt on purpose after I sink that putt for double?

I doubt it, and if you say you would then you are a liar. You would be lining that putt up from every angle to make sure you have it read right.

Hammer down at all time IMO.

There's some big differences that need to be addressed. Games like football, basketball, baseball, and hockey are obviously team sports that are not only played within the boundaries of a time constraint, but they are also played with a number of substitutes (2nd stringers, if you will) who spend a good portion of time on the bench. Sports like golf and tennis are, for the major part, singular pursuits that have an end point on which the victor is decided. Golfers play against the course, and tennis players play to 6 games, or so. It's a completely different dynamic.

There is no reasonable justification (outside of some 3rd tier points/goals differential tiebreaker mathematics) for a team to continue to play it's starters/1st stringers in order to run up the score on the opposition. It's unsportsmanlike, and only goes to breed animosity, and give the loser an excuse to "settle a score" the next time they meet, if not sooner. Playing hard and tough is one thing, but playing to humiliate your opponent is not "cricket".

Players want to be looked on as role models to younger generations. What kind of message is being sent when they're trying to embarrass their opponents? The wrong one, IMO.

[Chambokl]

steal a base with a huge lead and you could get popped in the head next at bat

Apex and Willy, you are right on this one. You don't steal a base in baseball with a big lead, you don't run trick play in football, you don't keep fast breaking in basketball, you don't .... but after all this you still keep playing the game and you still try to score touchdown in the 3rd and 4th quarter. You try to hit homerun in baseball, your try to score in BBall before the 24 second elapse, etc....

Imagine in basketball, you are up by 40 points with 8 minutes left and you don't take another shot. You let the 24 seconds clock go and turn the ball over to the other team... it makes no sense.

I remember going to a game and the SkyDome : Raptors vs Magic (with Shaq and Penny Hardaway). We had a group of 20 and most kids (14 to 17 years old) have not seen another game since. Well the Magic were up by 40+ at the half and we didn't see Shaq and Penny for the rest of the game. Do you think teh crowd was happy ... there was 35000+ spectators and they came to see Shaq and Penny but we didn't see them. The Magic still scored a lot in the second half but no Shaq...

[sillywilly]

steal a base with a huge lead and you could get popped in the head next at bat

Apex and Willy, you are right on this one. You don't steal a base in baseball with a big lead, you don't run trick play in football, you don't keep fast breaking in basketball, you don't .... but after all this you still keep playing the game and you still try to score touchdown in the 3rd and 4th quarter. You try to hit homerun in baseball, your try to score in BBall before the 24 second elapse, etc....

Imagine in basketball, you are up by 40 points with 8 minutes left and you don't take another shot. You let the 24 seconds clock go and turn the ball over to the other team... it makes no sense.

I remember going to a game and the SkyDome : Raptors vs Magic (with Shaq and Penny Hardaway). We had a group of 20 and most kids (14 to 17 years old) have not seen another game since. Well the Magic were up by 40+ at the half and we didn't see Shaq and Penny for the rest of the game. Do you think teh crowd was happy ... there was 35000+ spectators and they came to see Shaq and Penny but we didn't see them. The Magic still scored a lot in the second half but no Shaq...

We are talking about two different things. You are saying it shouldn't happen because the fans. I'm saying it should happen because that is the way it has been done for decades. Would I like to see a team get pumped by 100 points? Hell yeah!!! But will it ever happen? Not on your life. Why? Its unsportsmanlike. If you had teams running up the score in professional sports you would have a fight almost every game, hard fouls, chop blocks, it would get really nasty. Fine, you played better, you won... why embarass us now? Be happy with your win and rest your starters. NBA teams, imagine Shaq got hurt in the 4th q in a game where they were up for 40 points? The coach would be fired the next day.

As for Golfbum, this is the worst arguement I have ever heard you make. I'm talking about team sports and you keep talking about golf. Lets say corsby is about to break gretz record 50 goals in 39 games. The last game he needs 3 goals in the third period and his team is up 5-0. Do you honestly thing he is going to cherry pick, take off the other way before his team clears the puck? It would never happen. I have no problem with people breaking records. The 3 greatest moments for me in sports was watching Gretz score 50 goals in 39 points, watching him break howe's total points record, watching ripken set the iron man record. I love watching people break records.

I don't however like them breakin records if they need to be unsportsmanlike to do it. I don't like people breaking records in a pool that his been designed to be the fastest pool in the world and to break every swimming record ever. Call me crazy

[Chambokl]

Hey Willy,

Funny you like Gretzky. That is the same guy that in '81-82 when he scored 92 goals he scored 4 goals in the third period of a game that they won 9-2. What was he doing on the ice running up the score. You probably got up the next day hoping he would get a season ending injury...

PS: It was either in February or March of the '81-82 season...

PPS: I love Gretzky, class act like Brady!!

[hoolio]

We are talking about two different things. You are saying it shouldn't happen because the fans. I'm saying it should happen because that is the way it has been done for decades. Would I like to see a team get pumped by 100 points? Hell yeah!!! But will it ever happen? Not on your life. Why? Its unsportsmanlike. If you had teams running up the score in professional sports you would have a fight almost every game, hard fouls, chop blocks, it would get really nasty. Fine, you played better, you won... why embarass us now? Be happy with your win and rest your starters. NBA teams, imagine Shaq got hurt in the 4th q in a game where they were up for 40 points? The coach would be fired the next day.

As for Golfbum, this is the worst arguement I have ever heard you make. I'm talking about team sports and you keep talking about golf. Lets say corsby is about to break gretz record 50 goals in 39 games. The last game he needs 3 goals in the third period and his team is up 5-0. Do you honestly thing he is going to cherry pick, take off the other way before his team clears the puck? It would never happen. I have no problem with people breaking records. The 3 greatest moments for me in sports was watching Gretz score 50 goals in 39 points, watching him break howe's total points record, watching ripken set the iron man record. I love watching people break records.

Even though I don't agree with your overall point, I agree with everything you said above.

That being said, from what I watched of the games last season, the Pats finished the games the same way they started them. Brady wasn't just lobbing up bombs on every throw hoping someone would come down and break a tackle. He threw short passes, screens, and ran the ball just as they did at the beginning of the games. Sure he threw a few deep balls to Moss (and even ran the same play back to back), but it wasn't like they were playing the game with complete disregard.

I'm not sure why the owner(s) and upper management allowed it, seeing what they could lose compared what they had to gain. I'm glad they did though, because I enjoyed watching it.

[justsomeguy]

I don't think resting your best players near the end of the game when victory is assured really has ANYTHING to do with sportsmanship. You are simply conserving your resources for use later on in the season - nothing more, nothing less. The substitute players are trying just as hard as the starters were, and they want to score just as much.

IMHO it is up to the losing team to concede defeat FIRST. When they stop stealing bases, throwing long bombs, running fast breaks, etc. - then in a gesture of sportsmanship I would consider reciprocating. But if they keep coming at me then I'm not letting up for a second - and if the score ends up being an embarrassment for them then so be it. If they don't want that to happen then they should play better.

[sillywilly]

sure gretz scored a tn of goals. nobody said they stop playing. if a player has a breakaway he is going to try to score. when a player has a 2 on 1 they try to get the puck to the guy who is having a great game. hockey is a sport where you still have to play your to players because there arent enough players to finnish the game otherwise. you cant get away with completely cutting the first lines minutes and giving the second and third line more minutes. those other lines would be swamped. gretz want cherry picking, his minutes didnt go up in the third period to get those goals. its like baseball, you still play hard but there are certain things you dont do with a lead that big.

[sillywilly]

one last thing... in football with a big lead you pull your qb and you run the ball the rest of the game. the pats didnt do that. they threw bombs late in the game to moss. you just dont do that in football. i honestly was surprised no one took a shot at someone on that team.

[mpare]

So are you saying that the sins of the team coach are inherited by the players he puts out on the field? Are you saying that an athlete who is paid millions to perform for the benefit of the the team owners and the fans, I might add, should decide for himself when and if he should do his level best? I do not accept either proposition. That is where we disagree.

one last thing... in football with a big lead you pull your qb and you run the ball the rest of the game. the pats didnt do that. they threw bombs late in the game to moss. you just dont do that in football. i honestly was surprised no one took a shot at someone on that team.

[Golfbum]

one last thing... in football with a big lead you pull your qb and you run the ball the rest of the game. the pats didnt do that. they threw bombs late in the game to moss. you just dont do that in football. i honestly was surprised no one took a shot at someone on that team.

Why don't you apply for a coaching job since you seem to know all the ins and outs of pro football

You seem to think you will have the PIGSKIN GODS on your sidelines.

Now tell me what is the difference between records in hockey, football etc when compared to golf?

A record is a record and if someone can break the old record then so be it. Break it. If the other team is not good enough to stop that person from breaking that record then so be it.

[Chieflongtee]

Couple years ago Kobe scored 81 points in a game against the raptors. I wonder why they left him in the game as the lakers were leading by over 20. He left the game with 4 seconds left.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260122013

[Hacker]

I'm pretty sure that I chimed in with this the last time we had this discussion............

If you don't like having the score run up on you STOP THE OTHER TEAM!!!!

Period!!

Pros get paid to play and fans pay good money to see the stars play. If I'm paying $300 to watch the Bills play in Toronto I damn well want to see the starters on the field for the entire game regardless of what the score it.

As for this crap about Brady demonstrating "Unsportsmanship" like behaviour by continuing to put points on the board when the game is out of reach, that is complete and utter Bull!! If the coach leaves you in the game, you run the plays that are called from the sideline. You are paid to just that.

If you want to take issues with the coaches for leaving starters in the game etc. fine, but don't put any of that on the athlete they are doing their job

[Chambokl]

you cant get away with completely cutting the first lines minutes and giving the second and third line more minutes.

Maybe you don't watch hockey. Every team has 4 lines (not 3). In a big lead you use your 2nd, 3rd and 4th line more (even only).

his minutes didnt go up in the third period to get those goals

Are you telling me that Brady's minutes went up during these games... how do you do that in football unless he was also playing linebacker...

Believe me, I was around in the early 80's and Gretz tried to score everytime he could and I loved it...

What about Kobe's 81 points... good example André

[1972Apex]

I love the way these type of threads always break into two extremes
In this thread depending on which side one is on, you are either a poor sport or a quitter. Here's my final two cents:
I believe one should be a winner and always do their best. I also believe one should show good sportsmanship. The key is in deciding the correct times for both

[sillywilly]

"Pros get paid to play and fans pay good money to see the stars play. If I'm paying $300 to watch the Bills play in Toronto I damn well want to see the starters on the field for the entire game regardless of what the score it."

I would hold onto your money because if the game is a blowout that is exactly what is going to happen... unless they are playing the pats LOL

[Foddz]

Balanced opinions like that are not welcome here

You're either for players playing to the best of their ability regardless of the consequences, or you're for them being a bunch of nancies and all but throwing the game away once they're ahead. There is no middle ground!

I love the way these type of threads always break into two extremes
In this thread depending on which side one is on, you are either a poor sport or a quitter. Here's my final two cents:
I believe one should be a winner and always do their best. I also believe one should show good sportsmanship. The key is in deciding the correct times for both

[LobWedge]

Pros get paid to play and fans pay good money to see the stars play. If I'm paying $300 to watch the Bills play in Toronto I damn well want to see the starters on the field for the entire game regardless of what the score it.

As for this crap about Brady demonstrating "Unsportsmanship" like behaviour by continuing to put points on the board when the game is out of reach, that is complete and utter Bull!! If the coach leaves you in the game, you run the plays that are called from the sideline. You are paid to just that.

If you want to take issues with the coaches for leaving starters in the game etc. fine, but don't put any of that on the athlete they are doing their job

If you're talking about one-offs like the NFL playing in Canada, or the NBA playing a marquee game at Skydome, or the NHL Heritage Classic, then I absolutely agree with that view.

I also agree with the fact that it's the coaches/managers who have the control over the personnel in play. Bellichek is the one to "blame", not Brady. Players are paid to perform when they're on the field until the coach, the whistle, or the time clock tells them to stop.