English Mandatory on the LPGA

[smitty]

I think the LPGA can set whatever qualifying criteria they want for their tour. This may not be the best way to do it but it is still their right.

The LPGA essentially discriminates against men and no one cares, why care about language?

The players know they have it good on the LPGA so they will learn some English. They will learn to thank the sponsors, fans, organizers and volunteers and learn some catch phrases for the Pro-Am, no big deal. If all players know some English in theory purses go up and even the players personal sponsorships might go up, who does this hurt?

The alternative is the LPGA could set a limit on foreign born players on the LPGA or not let them play at all. Many sports leagues have restrictions on foreign born players and it is not discrimination. I see this as a comprimise to let all the best players in the world be on the LPGA and having those players make top dollar.

Again, it could have been handled better.

[golfinteg]

This is a form of trade barrier perhaps another form of overt discrimmination. This is liken to a parochial and in the extreme xenophobic attitude of a minority. Subpar performance!!!

[golfinteg]

This year LPGA majors were won by 2 Koreans, one Taiwanese and Lorena. Making "passable" English skills mandatory will preclude three of this winners. One of them is a LPGA rookie and the other ( British Open winner) is not carded on the LPGA. She is currently the top player on the Korean LPGA.

My notion of LPGA means the top world players are playing in this tour and all other tours are ascribed as Korean LPGA, Japan LPGA etc.
We had 43 of the top 45 players in the world playing in the 2008 CN Canadian Open in Ottawa recently. It was truly a world class event coupled with the excellent all round efforts by our organizers and volunteers. We were fortunate to be blessed with this world class event.

The ramification of this language barrier ( for all new players to be carded need to have acquired "passable English skill set) will preclude or deter players like Ji-Yai Shin from joining the LPGA tour next year. Should we then call it the US LPGA tour then?

[golfinteg]

Can the LPGA survive without some of the sponsors? ??? Does multinationals such as Ricoh, Samsung, MacDonalds, Rolex, Krafts Nabisco, Nike TaylorMade, Titleist etc have any input on this requirement???

[macspesh]

Maybe this LPGA strategy has paid off after all? This thread just garnered more interest here for the LPGA than any event they could schedule.
PC hysteria...so easy to play on, just ask the networks.

[rancherJ]

CFL "discrimates" against Americans
-max # per team
Major Junior Hockey "discriminates" against Euros
-max # per team
Provincial Gov'ts "discriminate" against non English/French when it comes to provincial licencing for professionals
-English proficiency required

This is a form of trade barrier perhaps another form of overt discrimmination. This is liken to a parochial and in the extreme xenophobic attitude of a minority. Subpar performance!!!

I think I need to brush up on my English proficiency to understand this

[Kiwi]

I can see both sides, from the players perspective and the Tour's. The fact that there has been a large number of foreigh winners in the recent past makes the timing very bad. If the LPGA has a legit reason for this then it will be very difficult for them to defend it. Interesting to see Tiger's clip on TV last night saying first he heard of it. What colour is the sky in your bubble? As for me, it smacks of all the words used by those opposed, racism, hypocracy and most importantly US protectionism. Any casual student of American history will see that they go to ground and build walls when they feel threatened. Shut out the competition and save the spoils for themselves. I guess since it is their game they have the right... wink, wink

[justsomeguy]

Just an aside, I wonder how many people in this thread have tried to learn another language as an adult? Do people think this is an easy requirement for the Korean players on tour to fulfill?

I think learning another language is hard work - and the older you are, the harder it is. Even for an English-speaking person to learn French (or vice-versa) takes a lot of time and practice - and those two languages have a lot in common as they are both based on Latin. In the federal government I believe an employee can get time off work to do nothing but language-training (all paid for and provided by the government) - and it still takes some people many years to become bilingual.

OTOH, English and Korean don't even share the same alphabet! The two languages have absolutely nothing in common with each other, and yet these people have to learn enough to pass a test which hasn't been devised yet that will be administered sometime in 2009 (which is only 4 months away). At the same time they have to earn a living playing golf, because in the LPGA if you don't play and make cuts then you don't get paid! Doesn't this strike anybody as being a little unfair?

[golfisforfun]

If you were a pro golfer and wanted to make a living on the LPGA, and you knew learning English was a prerequisite, what would you do?

How many players have complained about this so far? How many players do you really think will say "no way, too bad, I am going back to play on the Womens Asian Tour instead"

They will all comply because the LPGA is the best place for them to play and make a living.

[rancherJ]

just a thought but when Se Ri Pak came over her english improved on an annual basis to the point where she is very well spoken in the English Language.
With increasing #'s of Koreans now coming over to play and able to socialize together ,speaking their native tounge perhaps there is not the same urgency to learn the local language. This new initiative will serve the Tour and the ladies well from a business perspective

[justsomeguy]

How many players do you really think will say "no way, too bad, I am going back to play on the Womens Asian Tour instead"

Just guessing, but it wouldn't surprise me if 12-15 players left (i.e., about 1/3 of them). Some of it will depend on the just how tough this yet-to-be-devised test is.

Not the top players or the ones who have been on tour for a while - but many of the Asian rookies and lower-ranked players who barely make the cuts will probably leave. The LPGA has the biggest purses - but you can still make a living on the Asian, Australian and European tours.

Not only that, but it will make a lot of future Asian golfers think twice about a career in golf and/or making the jump to the LPGA - so in 5 years or so you'll probably see A LOT fewer Asian players in the LPGA. I don't think the top players will be affected that much - they'll still do whatever it takes - but all the others will.

[Chambokl]

Before she join the LPGA tour Lorena Ochoa had a 10 year -- $1 million per year contract with Samsung. Do anybody think that she needs the LPGA to survive... As an athlete you want to join the LPGA (not for the $$) but for the competition.

OHL -- Ontario hockey League
CFL-- Canadian Football league

LPGA -- ?? (or is it the US Tour)

This is publicity for the LPGA but it is negative publicity -- that they don't need...

Of the 30 rooies this year, only 8 are from the US... maybe that is the real problem...

[Golfbum]

It's the strongest pro tour for the women. If they qualify on their skills and talent they should be allowed to play, as they have been until now. It might be appropriate to help them learn English to enhance their marketability to sponsors, but that should be enough.

Which in my opinion is exactly what the LPGA is asking for. Basic English skills so the members of the tour can give interviews, Thank their sponsors, talk to their Pro Am partners (who pay heavily to play with a member of the tour)

I agree with the fact that employers have the right to dictate their employees language skills. I would not be hired by a French speaking firm since I can not speak a word in French. So no matter how talented I am I would be of no use to that firm.

IMO it would be a benefit for the foreign players to learn how to communicate in English. After all the majority of the LPGA events are held in North America. The players are traveling and living in the United States where English is the main language spoken.

It seems to me the Koreans or anyone else would be better off being able to speak some English while spending the amount of time they do in USA.

[rancherJ]

Before she join the LPGA tour Lorena Ochoa had a 10 year -- $1 million per year contract with Samsung. Do anybody think that she needs the LPGA to survive... As an athlete you want to join the LPGA (not for the $$) but for the competition

She got that contract because she was going to be playing on the Tour.
and yeah those ladies are there for the "competition" (not the $$)

[smithers40]

I see exactly where they are coming from with this rule. It is ridiculous that all these players come from all over the world to play "mostly" in North America, take the greatly higher purses that the LPGA offers in recent years due to sponsorships, and not have the courtesy to learn the language so that the sponsors can use the players as a spokesperson or at least get a decent post game interview. Its been said before, if you don't want to learn the language, don't play. It's that simple. I'm sure they are not asking these girls to be able to write a novel in english, just be able to say "I had a good round today, I'd like to thank the sponsors and LPGA for running a great tournament, thank you" To me it doesn't sound like that much to ask.

[mpare]

It's presumptuous to make the pejorative claim that the non-English speaking players have not had "the courtesy to learn the language ..." You assume that they have not been trying to learn English. Is there any evidence of that? Also, the legitimate commercial objective that the Tour appears to be pursuing could just as easily been achieved with a lot more finesse and without the need to hold the threat of suspension over the heads of its players. That's why many have reacted with annoyance. It has nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with the obvious lack of wisdom, and compassion on the part of the Tour leadership. If this was so important an issue that it merited a draconian measure to ensure compliance, then why was it not announced by Commissioner Bivens?

... It is ridiculous that all these players come from all over the world to play "mostly" in North America, take the greatly higher purses that the LPGA offers in recent years due to sponsorships, and not have the courtesy to learn the language so that the sponsors can use the players as a spokesperson or at least get a decent post game interview. ...

[justsomeguy]

I see exactly where they are coming from with this rule. It is ridiculous that all these players come from all over the world to play "mostly" in North America, take the greatly higher purses that the LPGA offers in recent years due to sponsorships, and not have the courtesy to learn the language so that the sponsors can use the players as a spokesperson or at least get a decent post game interview.

I guess that might have some validity if you only wanted to be the regional pro golf tour for North America. But if you want to be the top woman's tour period - featuring the best female golfers in the world - than you should probably try to be a little more accommodating to players from other countries. In the long run, money always seems to follow the talent rather than the other way around.

[Chambokl]

Just got a message from Carolyn Bievens...

Dear Sir,

I know you think our english only rules is a bit far fetch but there are other parts that you and your friends from Ottawa Golf have not read.

Our sponsors have demanded that all the players in the Pro-am talk english. They also have to be 5'6" to 5'10" with blond hair. There are also other request from the sponsors that we couldn't address at this time but it will be communicate to the girls in a player only meeting.

Now, you clown at Ottawa Golf could resume your normal activities and leave the Tour alone.

Sincerely yours,

Carolyn

[rancherJ]

well this equine has expired

[mpare]

But this is no ordinary nag. It's Pegasus. It attracts attention and won't disappear quietly into the night.

well this equine has expired

[quinner]

Think of it as being invited to a theme party...If you do not come dressed in the said theme, admittance will not be allowed...I don't see the problem...they just bunged it up. Nuff said.

[mpare]

I hadn't realized that one's language could be viewed as a disposable item, much like a party dress.

Think of it as being invited to a theme party...If you do not come dressed in the said theme, admittance will not be allowed...I don't see the problem...they just bunged it up. Nuff said.

[jonf]

I hadn't realized that one's language could be viewed as a disposable item, much like a party dress.

Not disposable....adaptable. They're not asking anyone to change their native language. They're asking them to add another to their repertoire.

[golfinteg]

Think of it as being invited to a theme party...If you do not come dressed in the said theme, admittance will not be allowed...I don't see the problem...they just bunged it up. Nuff said.

However you cloak or couch it, this language requirement reeks of unfair trade practice. It was surreptitiously announced in bad faith and targeted at a specific group of golfers (Koreans) on the eve of their Safeway Classic rounds. Definitely it was bungled or was it to create mental anxiety or intimidate?

Padraig put it succinctly
"Obviously some people are natural talkers and some people aren't. What if you have a person who genuinely struggles with learning a new language, they have a learning disability? That's tough to ask somebody with a learning disability who might have found golf as the saving grace in their life, to ask them to learn a different language or else you can't play."

This certainly applies to Korean golfers such as Se Ri Pak and K.C. Choi when they were interviewed. They will not have pass muster on this 2 yr. mandatory language requirement.


Can I ask this question? Is English language a mandatory requirement to play on the PGA tour? At the $5million 2007 HSBC Phil did not have to speak Chinese to play at the pro-ams. So on this LPGA, touted to be a Global tour, is acquiring a passable foreign language a requirement?

Fairness dictate us to speak out against this ethnocentric rule.

P.S. Kudos to Lori Kane for voicing out against this draconian measure.

[mpare]

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, the commercial objectives that senior tour officials seem to be attempting to achieve are understandable. On the other hand, the manner in which they are attempting to achieve it, is not. The are not "asking" the players to learn English. They are ordering them that to do so, or be tossed from the tour. That is what many of us find unacceptable. If this is the way in which they accommodate themselves to foreign born players or negotiate generally, it's not surprising that they are losing sponsors. Their approach is both gauche and xenophobic. Thank goodness the PGA Tour has seen no reason to go down this same road.

Not disposable....adaptable. They're not asking anyone to change their native language. They're asking them to add another to their repertoire.

[Golfbum]

A quick question here. How many of our members live in Quebec?

Why are there "French Only" Businesses in Quebec? Meaning if I come to visit I can not do business there or eat in a French Only establishment?

Nuf Said.

[McG]

A quick question here. How many of our members live in Quebec?

Why are there "French Only" Businesses in Quebec? Meaning if I come to visit I can not do business there or eat in a French Only establishment?

Nuf Said.

Not only Quebec. A lot of jobs here in New Brunswick require a person to speak english and french. If you don't, your resume won't even be accepted. Once and awhile, you see one that says bilingual preferred but not required.

Another thing. The co-op student that the community college sent to us for 6 weeks back in the spring was a 35 year old South Korean man. He has a wife and two kids. He learned english and will become a licenced mechanic when he is done. He will earn a lot less than these LPGA players and he saw fit to learn english on his own when he moved here. He was also one of the friendliest and most respectful people I've met in my life. So after meeting him, it's kind of hard to feel sorry for any of these Korean golfers that will make 10 times minimum what this guy will make working his ass off to feed his family.

[rancherJ]

Fairness dictate us to speak out against this ethnocentric rule.

Curious, do you feel as strongly about the language situation in Quebec?

[justsomeguy]

A quick question here. How many of our members live in Quebec?

Why are there "French Only" Businesses in Quebec? Meaning if I come to visit I can not do business there or eat in a French Only establishment?

Nuf Said.

I have never seen a "French Only" business as you have described it in Quebec, nor have I seen a "French Only" restaurant. I am unilingual English, and when I'm in Quebec (which is often) I eat wherever I like and have no trouble doing business there. Working there would be a different issue, but $$$ is a universal language.

[mpare]

Not quite enough said. I don't recall the Habs booting any player who could not speak French. For some reason, they were more interested in whether they could play hockey.

A quick question here. How many of our members live in Quebec?

Why are there "French Only" Businesses in Quebec? Meaning if I come to visit I can not do business there or eat in a French Only establishment?

Nuf Said.