English Mandatory on the LPGA

[Kilroy]

How many languages were spoken at the Olympics? Did competitors need to speak English to excel in their sport?

It's not an office where you need to communicate with your co-workers. Just your coach or caddie. Perhaps a translator for interviews. It has worked pretty well in the past.

[mpare]

Quite apart from the ham-fisted manner in which the LPGA has crafted this policy (wouldn't it have been better to "encourage" players to learn English), it sends the wrong message internationally. If the LPGA has any intention of expanding their market beyond the limited boundaries of the USA, this policy will hardly assist them in that regard.

what's the big deal? Your employer has the right to insist that you can speak english (or french or whatever other language). Why should it be any different for the LPGA. There is no such thing as discrimination based on ability. If you are unABLE to speak English, and your employer insists that you do so, you may learn the language. It's really as simple as that.

[jonf]

The "you can always go work somewhere else" argument has been discredited a long, long time ago. If a player challenges this in court, the LPGA will likely have to show that a proficiency in English is necessary and/or reasonable or they will lose.

Why will they have to demonstrate that? Where in any charter is it stated that we have the right not to be discriminated against based on language?

[jonf]

Quite apart from the ham-fisted manner in which the LPGA has crafted this policy (wouldn't it have been better to "encourage" players to learn English), it sends the wrong message internationally. If the LPGA has any intention of expanding their market beyond the limited boundaries of the USA, this policy will hardly assist them in that regard.

I'm not supporting the policy. I think it's stupid and pointless. But that doesn't make it illegal or discriminatory.

[justsomeguy]

Why will they have to demonstrate that? Where in any charter is it stated that we have the right not to be discriminated against based on language?

Since we are talking about US law:

http://www.las-elc.org/LanguageDiscrimination.pdf

[jvincent]

Playing golf on the LPGA Tour is a basic human right now? Where do I sign up!

I think you need to have your plumbing altered first.

On the positive side, you hit driver further than all the ladies.

[jonf]

Since we are talking about US law:

http://www.las-elc.org/LanguageDiscrimination.pdf

The second section "is language discrimination illegal" is decidedly vague language discrimination, stating that many (not all) courts consider language discrimination to be a form of racial or ethnic discrimination. So, no, that is not a specific law against language discrimination, but a suggesting that some courts consider it an ethnic/racial matter. That would be decidedly difficult to prove in court as the LPGA has many players who are of different races/ethnicities bu also speak english.

[Chambokl]

I could easily see some rich dude start his own Professionnal Ladies of Golf (PLG) and get lots of the actual sponsors to follow. Evian, Corona, China Air, Ricoh, Mizuno, Sony, Honda, etc... could easily be sponsors of the new PLG and maybe Dan Kilbank would be the first President of the new Association.

Mr Kilbank addressing the media: "Welcome to the PLG, our motto is only the best. We don't care where you come from and what language you speak we want the best player in our Association."

The LPGA is committing suicide, they should know there is a lot more money outside the US than in the US. It is pretty small thinking that if they don't speak english they don't have any sponsorship. Lorena Ochea is a big star in Mexico and believe me she has lots of sponsors... and not because she speaks english.

[mpare]

I find it interesting that the LPGA's site doesn't appear to have posted anything about this policy. Amazing! More amazing is the fact that one of the "players" featured in their players' section is Michelle Wie. Maybe it won't matter if you get bounced from the tour for being unable to speak English, so long as you can generate exceptional gate numbers. Come to think of it, maybe you don't ever have to be a member of the tour, if you can generate sufficient gate.

[LobWedge]

Why will they have to demonstrate that? Where in any charter is it stated that we have the right not to be discriminated against based on language?

Because being good at golf has absolutely nothing to do with being able to speak English, or any language, or at all for that matter. Do you think that they would ever even consider a policy like this on the men's tour? Not a chance.

[jonf]

Again, as I have stated, I don't think it's a good policy. I think it's absolutely inane. But that doesn't mean that it is discriminatory or illegal in nature...that's all I'm trying to say.

[rancherJ]

Unlike the Men's tourThe LPGA tour continues to struggle to attract sponsors with deep pockets and /or long term commitment. This is the entertainment business and the tour recognizes a problem.A large contingent cannot communicate with North American pre$$.
However indignant you may get toward an policy requiring oral proficiency in a particular language, lets be honest, the only language we're talking here is $$$ and that is what drives the tour. The South Koreans, Vietnamese etc. will learn English because they here for the $$$. Funny enough those who stand to will benefit the most are those whose"rights"are being defended here. Better communication leading to bigger purses and more lucrative endorsements.

[justsomeguy]

That would be decidedly difficult to prove in court as the LPGA has many players who are of different races/ethnicities bu also speak english.

Judges are not stupid:

The tour held a mandatory meeting with South Koreans at the Safeway Classic last Wednesday to inform them of the new policy, which will be finalized with a detailed criteria by season's end.

[Shivas Irons]

One thing that seems to be going unmentioned here is the issue of pro-ams - I think I heard that the cost to enter the Wednesday LPGA pro-am at Hunt Club this year was 3K per team. I could be wrong about the dollar amount, but the point is, who wants to shell out that kind of cash to play in a pro-am with a player who doesn't speak a word of English?

[Foddz]

It is discriminatory, though, because it shows favouritism towards a certain subset of people based on a skill that has no bearing on their ability to do the job.

If you were fired from your job for not being able to speak Swahili, or for not being able to tango, it would be the exact same issue. The fact you can learn to speak Swahili or to do the tango is immaterial - your employer has no grounds to make those skills a requirement and deny you employment for not possessing them.

The correct thing for the LPGA to have done would have been to offer language tutoring and incentives to learn English - it accomplishes the same task without the uproar, moral outrage, and inevitable tarnishing of their brand image.

[justsomeguy]

Unlike the Men's tourThe LPGA tour continues to struggle to attract sponsors with deep pockets and /or long term commitment. This is the entertainment business and the tour recognizes a problem.A large contingent cannot communicate with North American pre$$.

I think the "entertainment" in sports is provided by the athlete's play and not by their interviews. Heck, many English-speaking athletes choose to not speak to the press.

Besides, I don't think anyone is debating about the benefits of learning English when you are playing on a tour that is conducted largely in the United States. I'm sure most of the South Korean players would even agree with that. The problem is when you may it a requirement - one that largely affects only one or two ethnic groups - and then prohibit athletes from playing based on that requirement.

[LobWedge]

Again, as I have stated, I don't think it's a good policy. I think it's absolutely inane. But that doesn't mean that it is discriminatory or illegal in nature...that's all I'm trying to say.

There is precedent in US law...

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is a federal law that protects individuals from discrimination based upon national origin and race. Some courts and governmental agencies have said that discrimination based on language is a form of national origin discrimination because primary language is closely related to the place a person comes from. So if you are being discriminated against for using that language, or because of characteristics having to do with that language, that is considered essentially the same as if you were being discriminated against because of your national origin.

As well, text from the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms...

22. Nothing in sections 16 to 20 abrogates or derogates from any legal or customary right or privilege acquired or enjoyed either before or after the coming into force of this Charter with respect to any language that is not English or French.

[rancherJ]

based on a skill that has no bearing on their ability to do the job.

Agreed if playing golf is the only thing. Again, this is the entertainment Biz and part of LPGA tour players job is to market the game and be accessible to fans to grow the ladies game. If you doubt this see how much effort is put into making the athletes approachable and available during torney week.

who wants to shell out that kind of cash to play in a pro-am with a player who doesn't speak a word of English? .

This was a definite factor when the draw for choosing your paying partners took place.

[McG]

Agreed if playing golf is the only thing. Again, this is the entertainment Biz and part of LPGA tour players job is to market the game and be accessible to fans to grow the ladies game. If you doubt this see how much effort is put into making the athletes approachable and available during tourney week.

Great post.

Too bad nobody else seems to "get it."

[justsomeguy]

Agreed if playing golf is the only thing. Again, this is the entertainment Biz and part of LPGA tour players job is to market the game and be accessible to fans to grow the ladies game.

...just like its Sean Avery's job to market the NHL and Barry Bond's job to be accessible to fans in order to grow the game of baseball!

C'mon, we're talking about athletes here. Their only job is to play their sport to the best of their ability. It would be great if they're also approachable, thoughtful, courteous, well-spoken, photogenic and just a genuinely nice person - but that is hardly a requirement for their work.

[LobWedge]

Agreed if playing golf is the only thing. Again, this is the entertainment Biz and part of LPGA tour players job is to market the game and be accessible to fans to grow the ladies game. If you doubt this see how much effort is put into making the athletes approachable and available during torney week.

It's the player's job to play golf to the best of her ability and to make as much money for themselves as possible. It's the LPGA's job to market their game in such a way that doesn't infringe on the rights of its players.

[sensfan63]

One thing that seems to be going unmentioned here is the issue of pro-ams - I think I heard that the cost to enter the Wednesday LPGA pro-am at Hunt Club this year was 3K per team. I could be wrong about the dollar amount, but the point is, who wants to shell out that kind of cash to play in a pro-am with a player who doesn't speak a word of English?

EXACTLY !!! The old saying on the professional tours is, "Wednesday is the day we pay the bills." ie., the day that the players repay the sponsors for their investment in whatever tour they play on.

If you are the CEO of Safeway...and you bring in your three best distributors...and you get Meena Lee in your group and she can't speak a damn word of English...what the hell is the point of the day? These guys spend a lot of money to sponsor golf tournaments, and the LPGA is simply trying to help the sponsors get more bang for their buck.

[Chambokl]

Too bad nobody else seems to "get it."

Really... so Paula Creamer went to Golf last week to promote the LPGA... You don't get it. She went there to promote Taylor Made and Paula Creamer. She went because she was getting paid.

Players JOB IS NOT to promote the LPGA. The LPGA is happy if they do but they don't have to.

Only the best player should be there not the 400th rank player because she speaks english. By the way Edith Bunker, LPGA member rank 554th will be at Rideau Centre this week-end... wonder how many people will show up.

A player rank in the top 10 (who don't speak english) could stand at the Rideau Centre for 2 hours and sign autograph without saying a word and smile and everybody would be happy.

[LobWedge]

EXACTLY !!! The old saying on the professional tours is, "Wednesday is the day we pay the bills." ie., the day that the players repay the sponsors for their investment in whatever tour they play on.

If you are the CEO of Safeway...and you bring in your three best distributors...and you get Meena Lee in your group and she can't speak a damn word of English...what the hell is the point of the day? These guys spend a lot of money to sponsor golf tournaments, and the LPGA is simply trying to help the sponsors get more bang for their buck.

So they should put "language preference" on the pro-am application form?

They're all so altruistic in their endeavor. What a load of crap! They want to improve their "street cred" around the office/boardroom, and hopefully get a bunch of photos taken with a "hottie in a skirt" who just happens to be able to play golf. It's all about their own exposure and nothing else.

[sensfan63]

Too bad nobody else seems to "get it."

Really... so Paula Creamer went to Golf last week to promote the LPGA... You don't get it. She went there to promote Taylor Made and Paula Creamer. She went because she was getting paid.

Players JOB IS NOT to promote the LPGA. The LPGA is happy if they do but they don't have to.

Only the best player should be there not the 400th rank player because she speaks english. By the way Edith Bunker, LPGA member rank 554th will be at Rideau Centre this week-end... wonder how many people will show up.

A player rank in the top 10 (who don't speak english) could stand at the Rideau Centre for 2 hours and sign autograph without saying a word and smile and everybody would be happy.

You don't get it. When you play on a tour, you represent that Tour. There are codes of conduct, both on and off the golf course, that you must adhere to, that are written in pages and pages of bylaws. Don't think that this is strictly an "independent contractor" issue. It's much broader than that.

[McG]

Too bad nobody else seems to "get it."

Really... so Paula Creamer went to Golf last week to promote the LPGA... You don't get it. She went there to promote Taylor Made and Paula Creamer. She went because she was getting paid.

Players JOB IS NOT to promote the LPGA. The LPGA is happy if they do but they don't have to.

No, you don't get it. Without the LPGA, where would Paula Creamer be? The golfer and the platform they use to make them the stars that they are cannot be seperated. Sorry.

[LobWedge]

Bottom line is, this language issue will end up in US Federal Court, and the LPGA will lose.

[Hacker]

I'm failing to see how it is anyone's "Right" to play golf on the LPGA and how that supposed "Right" some how superceeds the LPGA's right to make rules which govern its association.

Anyway this is a fruitless discussion as the PCers will never be able to see or accept the rational behind the LPGA's decision.

One final point though............do you really think that they would propose such a rule without first getting a legal opinion and then getting a second opinion on that original opinion??

You can quote all as many passages from the US or Canadian constitution as you like, but I'm sure the LPGA has elicited the opinions of constitutional law experts and are quite confident in their decision despite what all of the lawyer wannabes might think

[LobWedge]

One final point though............do you really think that they would propose such a rule without first getting a legal opinion and then getting a second opinion on that original opinion??

You can quote all as many passages from the US or Canadian constitution as you like, but I'm sure the LPGA has elicited the opinions of constitutional law experts and are quite confident in their decision despite what all of the lawyer wannabes might think

Yeah, just like the USGA did in the Casey Martin case.

[Hacker]

Bottom line is, this language issue will end up in US Federal Court, and the LPGA will lose.

Not gonna happen