Lefty Slice

[broken27]

I have a fairly strong grip, shoot left, and swing fairly fast/hard according to people who've watched me swing.

I am right-handed, but shoot left, so my power/accuracy hands in a hockey context are out of place. But I slice left in my drives some times while never hooking right.

Is there anyone who can give me a quick explanation of how that works? I mean, is it the grip, swing, hand position, club face at point of contact too open/closed?

I'm fairly sure that if I knew the physics, I could work it out on the range.

Thanks,
Dan

[BC MIST]

I have a fairly strong grip, shoot left, and swing fairly fast/hard according to people who've watched me swing.

I am right-handed, but shoot left, so my power/accuracy hands in a hockey context are out of place. But I slice left in my drives some times while never hooking right.

Is there anyone who can give me a quick explanation of how that works? I mean, is it the grip, swing, hand position, club face at point of contact too open/closed?

I'm fairly sure that if I knew the physics, I could work it out on the range.

Thanks,
Dan

Ther are only 9 ball flight possibilities. The face of the club is open, square or closed to the club head path, and there are 3 club head paths, on line, outside in or inside out. For you to slice left, (being a left hander) the face is open to your current path.

On what line does your ball start before curving left? If it is right of target line, your path is outside in, if at your target it is on line, and if left of target line, it is inside out. The irony of your slice is your strong grip. This suggests to me that you swing outside in, but hold the release of your wrists, causing the slice. If your hands released with a strong grip, you would hook.

I am right-handed, but shoot left, You suggest that this combination is a curse. I would call it a blessing. The two best ball strikers of all time, Ben Hogan and Moe Norman were/are left handed. Just a coincidence? The truth is that a strong pulling action with the dominant lead hand puts the club head in a better, hands ahead of the ball position, than if you were trail side dominant. This allows the flexed trail elbow and wrist joints to unflex slightly later, so their power will not be wasted. It is not the physical strength of the trail arm that is important but that the elbow and wrist angles straighten later in the downswing.

The arms can be trained to drop into the slot at the start of the downswing, however, a picture of that saves writing a thousand words. The ideal path/face combination is inside path and open face at impact, on line and square face at separation, 3/4" later.

[broken27]

Ther are only 9 ball flight possibilities. The face of the club is open, square or closed to the club head path, and there are 3 club head paths, on line, outside in or inside out. For you to slice left, (being a left hander) the face is open to your current path.

On what line does your ball start before curving left? If it is right of target line, your path is outside in, if at your target it is on line, and if left of target line, it is inside out. The irony of your slice is your strong grip. This suggests to me that you swing outside in, but hold the release of your wrists, causing the slice. If your hands released with a strong grip, you would hook.

I am right-handed, but shoot left, You suggest that this combination is a curse. I would call it a blessing. The two best ball strikers of all time, Ben Hogan and Moe Norman were/are left handed. Just a coincidence? The truth is that a strong pulling action with the dominant lead hand puts the club head in a better, hands ahead of the ball position, than if you were trail side dominant. This allows the flexed trail elbow and wrist joints to unflex slightly later, so their power will not be wasted. It is not the physical strength of the trail arm that is important but that the elbow and wrist angles straighten later in the downswing.

The arms can be trained to drop into the slot at the start of the downswing, however, a picture of that saves writing a thousand words. The ideal path/face combination is inside path and open face at impact, on line and square face at separation, 3/4" later.

I'm not suggesting that I'm cursed to be R/L switched. I was just pointing out the overall situation, assuming that power-hand/accuracy-hand might have something to do with it.

So it's likely a wrist thing then? My ball-flight starts out on line to the target, but starts to severely fade out left about 3/4 between launch and landing. It's manageable, but annoying to deal with.

The ideal path/face combination is inside path and open face at impact, on line and square face at separation, 3/4" later.

Is this to set up a natural draw, or plan a straight ball flight? Seems to me that would be the result in terms of physics.

Thanks for the tip.

Dan

[el tigre]

Is there anyone who can give me a quick explanation of how that works? I mean, is it the grip, swing, hand position, club face at point of contact too open/closed?

A good golf pro could give you a quick explanation - after seeing your swing. A strong grip is an anti-slice move, so it's probably not that. It could be any of the others though, but it is very difficult to diagnose online without a lot more info about your swing path, etc.

I'm fairly sure that if I knew the physics, I could work it out on the range.

I think you'll find that "working it out yourself" is harder than you think, but the best explanation of the physics that I've found is a book called "Swing Like a Pro", by Dr Ralph Mann & Fred Griffin. Mann is a biomechanics expert & Griffin is a teaching pro. They video-taped and studied the swings of over 100 PGA tour pros to find the similarities common to most of them and build a kind of composite "ideal" swing. Solid research that really cuts through all the (often conflicting) opinion-based tips and methods out there. Very interesting stuff.

[broken27]

A good golf pro could give you a quick explanation - after seeing your swing. A strong grip is an anti-slice move, so it's probably not that.

I'd hate to see what a weak grip would do to my drive.... :shake

I think the whole swing analysis thing might be a good idea before I get any deeper into the technical aspects of the golf swing. I have gotten myself pretty much as far as I think I'm able to (in the pure-ability sense), and other that tweaking distance and loft, I'm stuck.

Lessons.... YAY!

Dan

[Andru]

I'd hate to see what a weak grip would do to my drive.... :shake

I think the whole swing analysis thing might be a good idea before I get any deeper into the technical aspects of the golf swing. I have gotten myself pretty much as far as I think I'm able to (in the pure-ability sense), and other that tweaking distance and loft, I'm stuck.

Lessons.... YAY!

Dan

]
Dan

If your ball is flying online after impact then falling off to the left. You're more than half way there. The problem seems to be your face is slightly open when the ball leaves the club head. It's not a big deal. This is how the club head is oriented in you hands. If you would like to know the physics. If you hold your hand out as though you were going to shake hands with someone. The act of opening and closing the club face is your hand twisting "clock" wise and "counter" clock wise. Or reverse for a left hander. counter to open and clock wise to close.

Grab your club as you're reading this and hold it at impact. Now do that twisting motion and you'll see the face open and close. It's that twisting motion that controls the direction of the club face. Hold it off and you'll slice it. Release too early and you hook it. If you're 'about right'. You'll hit a decent shot. Practice half speed wedge shots using this. Go left, go right, go right down the middle with a little draw.

Lessons are an option. Working it out is better. It's up to you. Everyone is different.

[Kilroy]

Lessons are an option. Working it out is better. It's up to you. Everyone is different.

Trying to work it out on your own can take much longer. A pro you can communicate with is very helpfull when it comes to analizing what needs to be changed and how to best go about it.

I could look at myself in a mirror and never see anything if I did not know what it's supposed to look like. A video with a good instructor is very helpfull. They will focus on the next thing to work on, then you go work on that. Then go back and get the next piece of the puzzle...

[broken27]

Okay, so with all this great information, let me ask a little follow up question:

I have thought about WHEN I tend to slice, and I've narrowed it down to two situations.

1 - Driver on the tee: Normally I use my 5W off the tee because I hit it dead straight and about 220-230yds. Would using my driver (with a higher tee-up position for the ball) inherently cause a more open clubface?

2 - 3W to 4i off the fairway: Again, my prefered club for longer fairway shots is my 5w, and I hit it farther than from the tee, again dead straight.

I'm starting to think it's a mental block of some sort. I've had the problem for a long time, but have worked it out of my game with all but those two situations (of course, it still happens occasionally off the tee with the 5W, but not much).

Could the problem have anything to do with how far the ball is from my feet at the point of address?

Dan

[Andru]

Trying to work it out on your own can take much longer.

....or a small bucket on the practice tee.

[Pilgrim]

I have a fairly strong grip, shoot left, and swing fairly fast/hard according to people who've watched me swing.

Not that you CARE to have my opinion, but two things (already mentioned):
- you were going to get lessons, do it, itll save you a LOT of angst figuring out which of the 9 things is making you slice...once you ingrain a good swing, you'll think less (always a good thing for a golfer). I had a slice for a long time too, and ALMOST gave into it, until I rebuilt my swing...its a lot of work to rebuild, but Im much more comfortable now...and I can look at my divots (theres a huge clue: look at your divot...does it point at target, to left of target, or to right of target...if its pointing at target, or a TINY bit left of it (for a lefty), then your swing path is correct, but your face is open on impact).

- in my opinion swinging hard (too hard) can be disastrous...when you swing, are you controllable? Do you lose balance? Can you shoot slowly if you want to?

All advice is good, but nothing beats strong understanding of the mechanics, good lessons AND lots of applied practice.

[broken27]

Not that you CARE to have my opinion,

I never said that, I just said that it doesn't mean I'll change to agree with you.

Good points on the shooting hard though. I tend to shoot harder if I play either very well or very poorly. I guess it's adrenaline or nerves.

I have noticed this slice more off the tee on the second half of a round.

Dan

[Pilgrim]

Good points on the shooting hard though. I tend to shoot harder if I play either very well or very poorly. I guess it's adrenaline or nerves.

Watch your grip pressure then, learn to hold it in your fingers (again, a pro can help). If you're throttling it for whatever reason, you aren't going to release properly and the face will remain open. one of my brothers has a death choke on his clubs, and when he doesn't slice, its a push...one is the proper swing path and one isn't, but both are open faces.

IN MY OPINION, the money you spend on a pro-lessons SAVES you a lot of money (tell your wife) in frustration, bad games, bad practice and gizmos.