Leaderboard at the Barclays

[Kilroy]

Kevin Sutherland just putted out on 17. The leaderboard behind him shows his distance to the hole at 2'8". The commentators mentioned it. I stopped my PVR and looked at it. The numbers are about a foot high. Very visible to the player. So he can look at the leaderboard for a distance reading. There is a rule aginst distance Elecronic Measuring Devices on the tour so how is this OK? Things that make you go Hmmm.

[Paulio]

I noticed that to and found it quite strange. Seems unfair.. I mean, they already have marshals to find their balls too! These guys got it easy!!

[Kiwi battler]

Im guessing the measurement was an estimate

Asking for or recieving information regarding distance is not a violation

Off the top of my head , rule 8 / 1 .....it changed a while back

[jens]

I don't think I would putt any better if I knew that that knee-knocker for par was excactly 3'11" or about 3 feet long!

[LobWedge]

Im guessing the measurement was an estimate

Asking for or recieving information regarding distance is not a violation

Off the top of my head , rule 8 / 1 .....it changed a while back

Shotlink is accurate to within +/- 1cm on the green.

True, asking for and receiving info on distance is legal, but the question revolves around the use of electronic distance measuring devices, which are prohibited on tour.

[justsomeguy]

Shotlink is accurate to within +/- 1cm on the green.

True, asking for and receiving info on distance is legal, but the question revolves around the use of electronic distance measuring devices, which are prohibited on tour.

It is prohibited under Rule 14-3 for the player to use a distance-measuring device.

Since it is in fact the PGA Tour itself that is using the distance-measuring device and displaying the data, you could hardly penalize the player for looking.

[LobWedge]

It is prohibited under Rule 14-3 for the player to use a distance-measuring device.

Since it is in fact the PGA Tour itself that is using the distance-measuring device and displaying the data, you could hardly penalize the player for looking.

Actually, the operative word in the rule is use. Consider the following example.

A player hits his tee shot into the rough near the gallery ropes. Upon reaching his ball the player wonders out loud to his caddy, "I wonder what the distance is to the hole." A spectator who's standing in close proximity happens to be carrying a GPS device hears the question, and says to the player, "Here, have a look." The spectator holds out the device and the player is able to see the yardage.

Has the player physically touched and operated the device in order to gain the information? No.

Has the player used the device to gain the information required? Absolutely.

It's the same principle with the Shotlink information on the scoreboard.

The only way that I can think that this wouldn't be a rules violation on tour, is if there's an exception for the use of that infomation only, written in the PGA Tour "hard card".

[Kilroy]

Not saying they should penalize anyone. I just found it strange that they would display this information with that rule in place.

[justsomeguy]

Actually, the operative word in the rule is use. Consider the following example.

A player hits his tee shot into the rough near the gallery ropes. Upon reaching his ball the player wonders out loud to his caddy, "I wonder what the distance is to the hole." A spectator who's standing in close proximity happens to be carrying a GPS device hears the question, and says to the player, "Here, have a look." The spectator holds out the device and the player is able to see the yardage.

Has the player physically touched and operated the device in order to gain the information? No.

Has the player used the device to gain the information required? Absolutely.

I disagree with this last statement. In the situation described, the player has not used the device and would not be penalized. If the player asks to see the information, then you would have a breach under 8-1. But if the spectator just shows it to him on his own accord, there would be no breach.

The fact is that spectators are outside agencies, and players have absolutely no control over what they might do. If what you proposed was true, then a spectator could purposely show/tell a player yardage information so that he would be penalized and another competitor could win. I could see this becoming very popular during the Ryder Cup!

[justsomeguy]

Not saying they should penalize anyone. I just found it strange that they would display this information with that rule in place.

I agree. I can see showing it on a scoreboard that only the fans can see, but not one that can be easily seen by the players.

[Hacker]

Actually, the operative word in the rule is use. Consider the following example.

A player hits his tee shot into the rough near the gallery ropes. Upon reaching his ball the player wonders out loud to his caddy, "I wonder what the distance is to the hole." A spectator who's standing in close proximity happens to be carrying a GPS device hears the question, and says to the player, "Here, have a look." The spectator holds out the device and the player is able to see the yardage.

Has the player physically touched and operated the device in order to gain the information? No.

Has the player used the device to gain the information required? Absolutely.

It's the same principle with the Shotlink information on the scoreboard.

The only way that I can think that this wouldn't be a rules violation on tour, is if there's an exception for the use of that infomation only, written in the PGA Tour "hard card".

To me this is apples and oranges. Looking at or using a GPS, an electronic measuring device, and a score board, a device NOT capable of measuring anything are two totally different issues IMO. In the case of the scoreboard, the player is using information period. Viewing information on a distance finding device such as a rangefinder or GPS could, IMO, be considered equalivent to using the device but not simply reading information on a scoreboard.......My 2 cents

[Hacker]

To me this is apples and oranges. Looking at or using a GPS, an electronic measuring device, and a score board, a device NOT capable of measuring anything are two totally different issues IMO. In the case of the scoreboard, the player is using information period. Viewing information on a distance finding device such as a rangefinder or GPS could, IMO, be considered equalivent to using the device but not simply reading information on a scoreboard.......My 2 cents

To further my argument.........how is a scoreboard any different from a very detailed course book? The information contained in each was gathered using electronic distance measuring devices

[quinner]

I understand the oddity here, but they are only telling the guy how long his putt is. I think it would be a REAL issue if the player was in the fairway and they had a leader board sign showing how far he was from the pin.

I agree that providing this information is odd, but i don't think that it's information that's going to change the tournament, nor can I see it violating any rule of golf. I think they should throw out the rule book and have Auzie Rules golf sometimes...Maybe Vince McMahon will create the XPGA tour?

[justsomeguy]

To further my argument.........how is a scoreboard any different from a very detailed course book? The information contained in each was gathered using electronic distance measuring devices

A very detailed course book gives you distance information between fixed points. A rangefinder can give you distance information between your ball and a fixed point.

[justsomeguy]

The only way that I can think that this wouldn't be a rules violation on tour, is if there's an exception for the use of that infomation only, written in the PGA Tour "hard card".

BTW, strictly speaking it is use of the device that is prohibited - not use of the information - and it is prohibited by The Rules of Golf and not by the PGA Tour. The PGA Tour does not need to have anything written on their "hard card" - the ROG simply allow them to have a Local Rule or Condition of Competition permitting the use of rangefinders under certain conditions if they wish to do so (which apparently they have not). A subtle difference perhaps, but...

[Hacker]

A very detailed course book gives you distance information between fixed points. A rangefinder can give you distance information between your ball and a fixed point.

My point was how is a scoreboard any different from a detailed course book.......both are just giving you distances.

[Kilroy]

One is giving distances that are measured electronically, in real time, from your ball to the actual hole. The other is notes you (or your caddie) took on paper.

The former is not permitted during a competitive round on the PGA Tour and the latter is.

Shotlink is definately an Electronic Measuring Device. It's meant for the spectators but apparently in some cases the data (measurements) can be viewed by the players too.

Don't you find it odd that the Tour would prohibit EMD's but have this info in big letters in real time for all to see?

[Kilroy]

Also, does anyone here own an EMD (laser or GPS) that can tell you that your ball is 2'8" from the hole? Somehow I doubt it.

[Indio]

Dan, fast forward your PVR to the 72nd hole. The officials determined who was away (Sergio or Vijay) by asking the guys with ShotLink..... That is who Sergio was blowing a kiss to (not Faldo as others thought) because they said he was away when everyone thought it was VJ......