Where does casual water begin.

[Sparkplug]

With all of the rain we have been having some water hazards have been overflowing.

I was in a match and my ball came to rest in water that was overflowing from the hazard. Lucky me, if it was dry my ball would have been in the hazard.

When I sighted a straight line from red stake to red stake (it was a semi circular water hazard in this case) my ball was outside of the stakes.

I thought I would then get free relief from casual water.

My opponent indicated that despite this I should determine the boundary of the hazard by following an equidistant perimeter around the hazard as determined by the stakes.

In this case my ball would have been in the hazard and he contended that this is how it would be chalked out if it were dry (the club never chalks out hazards and only uses red stakes)

Despite not agreeing i took off my shoes, socks, put on my rain gear and made a huge slash/splash to get the ball out. Of course it went right into a bunker.

Who is right or are we both wrong?

[dhacker1956]

The stakes define the margin of the hazard. If ball is outside the margin but in water it is casual. Free drop

[Kiwi battler]

You got suckered lol

[AAA]

The stakes define the margin of the hazard. If ball is outside the margin but in water it is casual. Free drop

Only if the Local Rules don't say otherwise.

[BC MIST]

Only if the Local Rules don't say otherwise.

33-2a says that the Committee "must define accurately (ii) the margins of water hazards and lateral water hazards." If overflow water from heavy rains covers an area outside the marked margins, it is strange to me that the rules would permit margins that could vary from day to day, possibly changing during the course of a competition depending on the volume of rain falling and the drainage of the area.

Would you provide a little more information on the local rule you mentioned and why a hazard could extend beyond the previously marked margins, as it is contrary to 25-2?

[Sparkplug]

Just to provide some clarification.

If I sighted the margin of the hazard from post to post, from above the hazard boundary would look like a stop sign.

Going by my opponents interpretation it should be a circle.

His interpretation leaves me in the Hazard. Mine leaves me out.

Still not clear on this.

[justsomeguy]

Just to provide some clarification.

If I sighted the margin of the hazard from post to post, from above the hazard boundary would look like a stop sign.

Going by my opponents interpretation it should be a circle.

His interpretation leaves me in the Hazard. Mine leaves me out.

Still not clear on this.

Your interpretation is correct. From the Definitions:

When the margin of a water hazard is defined by stakes, the stakes are inside the water hazard, and the margin of the hazard is defined by the nearest outside points of the stakes at ground level. When both stakes and lines are used to indicate a water hazard, the stakes identify the hazard and the lines define the hazard margin. When the margin of a water hazard is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is in the water hazard. The margin of a water hazard extends vertically upwards and downwards.

In this case the hazard margin was defined by stakes, so the stakes are the only reference points you use.

[BC MIST]

Just to provide some clarification.

If I sighted the margin of the hazard from post to post, from above the hazard boundary would look like a stop sign.

Going by my opponents interpretation it should be a circle.

His interpretation leaves me in the Hazard. Mine leaves me out.

Still not clear on this.

You are clear; your opponent is not. How can anyone MISinterpret something so badly to state that all water hazards must be CIRCLES?

When you are confronted with this kind of stuff, just play the next shot the way you feel it should be played and ignore his "ruling." In match play it is up to your opponent to make a claim, if he thinks you are wrong. If he does not make a claim, you are right, even on the outside chance you are wrong. If he thinks hazards are circles he obviously knows nothing about making a claim in match play, either.

I have encountered too many matches decided by someone who does not know the rule, but thinks he does, and by an opponent who defers to the other because he's a better or more experienced player.

[AAA]

33-2a says that the Committee "must define accurately (ii) the margins of water hazards and lateral water hazards." If overflow water from heavy rains covers an area outside the marked margins, it is strange to me that the rules would permit margins that could vary from day to day, possibly changing during the course of a competition depending on the volume of rain falling and the drainage of the area.

Would you provide a little more information on the local rule you mentioned and why a hazard could extend beyond the previously marked margins, as it is contrary to 25-2?

I wasn't suggesting that the margin of a WH could move with the tide.

dhacker said The stakes define the margin of the hazard.

The definition and rule you quoted permits the committee to define the margins in other ways. This may be lines or other qualification such as 'where the ground breaks' which would be specified in a Local Rule. See the R&A publication 'Guidance on Running A Competition' Chapter 4 (Marking the Course) Section 3 (Water Hazards).
Another example would be where the WH is a simple concrete drain. Stakes may simply indicate the presence of the WH. The margin may be defined as the outer edge of the concrete half-pipe. This again would be specified in a Local Rule.

[BC MIST]

This may be lines or other qualification such as 'where the ground breaks' which would be specified in a Local Rule. See the R&A publication 'Guidance on Running A Competition' Chapter 4 (Marking the Course) Section 3 (Water Hazards).[/COLOR]
Another example would be where the WH is a simple concrete drain. Stakes may simply indicate the presence of the WH. The margin may be defined as the outer edge of the concrete half-pipe. This again would be specified in a Local Rule.

Thanks. I have the USGA's "How to Conduct a Competition," presumably the same as the R&A's and yes, it describes how to mark water hazards as you have indicated.