Quiz question #2

[Gary Hill]

In stroke play, a player's tee shot was lost in ground under repair.

He went back to the tee and played another ball (ball B).

He then became aware that relief is granted for a ball lost in ground under repair.

He lifted ball B and dropped a ball in accordance with the ground under repair Rule.

What the ruling?

[Kilroy]

A ball lost is a ball lost. What evidence was there that the ball was in fact in the ground under repair? Still I think even with evidence that it went in there if you cannot find and identify it - back to the tee.

Therefore the second ball he played is the ball in play. He probably must sacrifice his first born for abandoning it and playing the dropped ball from a wrong place, or at least, if he plays a stroke from the next tee without correcting his mistake he's disqualified.

Going back to correct his mistake;
I assume to do that he must drop as close to the point where he hit the second tee shot and replay the hole from there.
The score with the second ball counts and the player gets a 2 stroke penalty.

:dazzler1

[NoBack]

i would think you are right about using the second ball
although if he had said it was provisional than what he did was correct ....... no penalty.
:crying

[spidey]

As usual, Gary deals in facts.

So, the fact that's important is that the ball WAS lost in ground under repair.

Once the player leaves the tee (the first time), he has lost his opportunity to play a provisional.

Re-playing from the tee is always an option. Electing to play under the ground under repair rule is an option at the discretion of the player. It is important for the player to understand all his options before he lifts his ball, or before he plays his next stroke.

If he elects to play under the ground under repair rule, he has to do that before he re-tees. If he does, then he's playing a wrong ball 'B'.

So, I think his stroke with ball 'B'counts. And he should be playing ball 'B'. If he lifts it, then he's touching his ball in play,


20-1 Lifting ball. One stroke penalty for lifting ball B, which was the ball in play.

20-6 No penalty for lifting the ball dropped outside the ground under repair. The player must re-drop ball 'B', and continue play.

spidey

[Gary Hill]

When the player when back to the tee and played another ball (B), that ball became the ball in play under Rule 27-1 (stroke and distance).

When the player lifted ball B, he incurred a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2a (Ball at Rest Moved by Player).

When the player dropped another ball (ball C) in accordance with the ground under repair rule, he incurred a two stroke penalty under Rule 15-1 (illegal substitution).

If he plays ball C, he would incur an additional penalty of one stroke under Rule 18 for not replacing his ball (ball B).

He would be playing his eighth stroke.

If a serious breach of Rule 18 is involved (gains a significant advantage or negotiates a significant distance), he would be subject to disqualification if he did not correct the error before he played from the next teeing ground.

Alternative:

If the player lifts ball C, he is absolved from the illegal substitution penalty under Rule 20-6 (Lifting Ball Incorrectly Substituted).

If the player then returns to the place from which he lifted ball B, he would incur an additional penalty of one stroke under Rule 18 because the ball cannot be precisely replaced. He would then have to drop ball B at the estimated place.

He would be playing his sixth stroke.

[Kilroy]

Man, that's deep.
The rules are really simple. No, really

It took 3 reads beforeI could truly follow that :dunce

I thought I new something about the rules. :readingbo

[spidey]

yes... seconded... this is very complicated...

A quick clarification, if it's not belabouring what you think is abundantly clear, Gary.

Gary says....
If the player then returns to the place from which he lifted ball B, he would incur an additional penalty of one stroke under Rule 18 because the ball cannot be precisely replaced. He would then have to drop ball B at the estimated place.

Using rule 20-3c does not specify that an additional penalty stroke must be counted. I'm guessing that you mean that the additional penalty is actually 20-1 where it's a 1 stroke penalty if you replace the ball, but a general breach of the rule (2 strokes) if you don't replace the ball.

Rule 18-2a only specifies a one stroke penalty, and note 2 refers to rule 20-3, but there is no verbiage that indicates failure to replace the ball is a general breach of the rule.

spidey

[Gary Hill]

18-2. By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment
a. General
When a player’s ball is in play, if:

i. the player, his partner or either of their caddies lifts or moves it, touches it purposely (except with a club in the act of addressing it) or causes it to move except as permitted by a Rule, or

ii. equipment of the player or his partner causes the ball to move,

the player shall incur a penalty stroke. The ball shall be replaced unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun his swing and he does not discontinue his swing.

........

*****PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 18:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.
*If a player who is required to replace a ball fails to do so, he shall incur the general
penalty for breach of Rule 18 but no additional penalty under Rule 18 shall be applied.

In our scenario, our player lifted his ball in play (ball B). At that point he incurred a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a (Ball in Play Lifted by Player) and the ball is required to be replaced.

When he returned, he can no longer satisy the replacement requirement because the spot was not marked. He must drop the ball. His failure to replace the ball results in the player incurring the general penalty for breach of Rule 18.

You can look at two ways:

1. Lifting your ball costs you one stroke. Not putting it back costs you another stroke.

or more correctly:

2. Lifting your ball is a one stroke penalty under Rules 18-2a. Not replacing your ball results in the general penalty of two strokes under Rule 18, but the one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a is not applied.

Either way, it is two penalty strokes in total for that breach.