When To Take Lessons

[Andru]

The fundamentals are pretty simple, IMHO. You need to be balanced, the ball needs to be in a position where you can see it. You need a club. You need to be able to generate some motion with that club, preferably in a relatively circular motion. Club must make contact with the ball in such a way as to propel it in a desired direction (usually towards a hole).

How someone goes about it seems to have some standardization (even Furyk's weird backswing and odd hip-turn looks similar to Tiger's swing to a casual observer.

Ah, what do I know......?

Dan

Now we're talking Dan!

http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/swingsequences/

Check this out Dan. You can see the subtle but prominent differences in the moves of all these great golfers. Check out what Furyk's Father says about his sons swing. Thre is one thing you can take from the pros. Great balance and timing.

Also not mentioned a two finger overlap grip. He only has his thumb, index and middle finger of his right hand on the club. Very cool.

[mberube]

Why is that in 40 years the golf handicap has never lowered. It’s not hard to understand. The majority of amateur don’t take lessons. Or if they do, they don’t stick to the plan. They rather buy this new monster club that’s more forgiving and think they will play better. How many times have you seen somebody show you his new club thinking he will hit the ball perfectly strait and far. Not gonna happen.

If you take golf lessons, it’s to improve something in your swing. What you ar learning is called basic fundamentals. If fundamentals do not exist, teaching pro’s are no longer needed. Even Pro’s that teach feel will make you swing the club a certain way so you can sense the right move. Again fundamentals.

I do not know a PGA pro that has not learned fundamentals but I do agree that there is not one perfect swing for all golfers.

For your information, Barns is back to the drawing board with his swing. His new coach is ingraining fundamental swing path for more consistency. He is 5 over at Doral and missing the cut.

If Tiger and Phil need to takes lessons, I would think average Jo needs to also!

By the way, it’s not a fight, it’s just a spicy, religious conversation.

[broken27]

Now we're talking Dan!

http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/swingsequences/

Check this out Dan. You can see the subtle but prominent differences in the moves of all these great golfers. Check out what Furyk's Father says about his sons swing. Thre is one thing you can take from the pros. Great balance and timing.

Also not mentioned a two finger overlap grip. He only has his thumb, index and middle finger of his right hand on the club. Very cool.

One thing I notice about Furyk that is common with my swing. His front foot actually lifts up a bit and rotates so that the heel slides back about 30 degrees. If you look at the OGT PhotoGallery from 2003, the Title photo of me at Mountain Creek, you can see that I do the same thing. I got that from baseball, and have since managed to somewhat remove it from my swing. It helped me "click" into my downswing, but has become unnecessary for me to generate power. I've since gone to a more "traditional" backswing and use a mental clock to click into my downswing.

Also, at the top of his backswing, just before he goes back down, he seems to move his clubhead directly backwards a bit. I don't think I do that, but I understand what he's doing and I do something similar. It seems that this generates a bit of a "whip" motion in his downstroke. Myself, I just drop my hands straight down to create some "drag" on the club.

The biggest difference between my swing and Furyk's? His makes him millions of dollars, while mine costs me around $50 each weekend.

[Andru]

mberube

I think we agree that there are a few basic moves a person has to do to strike a golf ball. ( Notice I left the word swing out ). I believe our differences are in approach to teaching this.

Fundamental

Forming or serving as an essential component of a system or structure;

Now try to apply this definition, (which is paraphrased from a dictionary). to everything you know about the golf swing. Nothing really holds up.

Now before you think I'm going over the top ( pardon the pun ) hear me out.

The standard right now. is to watch the person do their thing. Then teach them to move their body in a different way to accomplish this. That's cool. It's one to do it.

Here's the option I'm presenting for those struggling with their game. Learn these four things.

- What part of the ball to hit.
- How the club was designed to be used this is not obvious. 90% of the people get it wrong.
- How the club head sits in your hand. I love seeing peoples faces when I show them this. They're usually about 45 Degrees wrong.
- What is the anticipated moment of impact. This is timing and skill development.

Almost every golfer I know can't answer these questions correctly yet they're pivital to solid ball striking. They are virtual fundamentals. I say virtual becuase there's exceptions to everything. But there's one that is not. In order for the ball to fly straight the club has to be square when the ball leaves the club. That's the only absolute in golf. It's indisputal.

If you learn the four things I mentioned you can teach yourself how to play golf. Like you taught yourself ping pong, billiards, horse shoes, darts etc etc etc. And most of us learned play these games very well without a pro.

[broken27]

- How the club head sits in your hand. I love seeing peoples faces when I show them this. They're usually about 45 Degrees wrong.

I am fairly sure that if you're holding the club head in your hand, you're not going to make good contact with the ball.....

Dan

[Andru]

I am fairly sure that if you're holding the club head in your hand, you're not going to make good contact with the ball.....

Dan

HAHA. It's not a typo if you need an explanation I'll expand.

[broken27]

HAHA. It's not a typo if you need an explanation I'll expand.

The only explanation I can imagine is the way the club lies on the ground at address. If I'm wrong, please do expand, because I've never taken a shot with the club upside down....

Dan

[mberube]

I think you have been learning AJ's videotape by hart.

I have a question for you that you probably won’t answer! How long have you been playing golf and what’s your handicap? Just curious on how your golf theory works out for you.

[broken27]

I think you have been learning AJ's videotape by hart.

I have a question for you that you probably won’t answer! How long have you been playing golf and what’s your handicap? Just curious on how your golf theory works out for you.

Uh, if you're asking me, I told you via email before. I'm going into my 6th season and am a 20 handicap (but should drop to about 16 or lower early in this season if my practice regime pays off).

If you're asking Andru, I apologize for answering.

Cheers,
Dan

[mberube]

I was asking Andru. You mentioned yours at the beginning.

[broken27]

I was asking Andru. You mentioned yours at the beginning.

Yeah, but it's my birthday tomorrow, so I'm pretty drunk..... Sorry for answering outta turn....



Dan

[mberube]

Yeah, but it's my birthday tomorrow, so I'm pretty drunk..... Sorry for answering outta turn....

Happy BDay Dan Happy 31 if I am not mistaken!

[Andru]

I think you have been learning AJ's videotape by hart.

I have a question for you that you probably won’t answer! How long have you been playing golf and what’s your handicap? Just curious on how your golf theory works out for you.

I hate talking about this but you asked. I started playing in 2000. I play between an 8 and 12. I posted 30 rounds at 80-82 last year. Metal block to break 80. Darn putting!!! Also had to battle an ankle injury.

The end of this year I finished off with 4 straight rounds in the 70's. a 76 at greensmere from the back tees, a 77 at angus gren south from the blues, and a 74 at Deer creek South in Ajax from the blues and a 75 at falcon ridge from the blues, even with those hairy greens at the end of last year. No rough though so I guess it evens out. Next year. I plan on being in the 70's all year. I want to be a solid single digit handicap. All I have to do is improve my short game ( bunker and extended 50-20 yard chip shots). Since ball striking is not an issue.

[Andru]

Yeah, but it's my birthday tomorrow, so I'm pretty drunk..... Sorry for answering outta turn....



Dan

Happy Birthday Dan. Have a blast!

[Andru]

The only explanation I can imagine is the way the club lies on the ground at address. If I'm wrong, please do expand, because I've never taken a shot with the club upside down....

Dan

The club head is on the end of a shaft.The club face is really an extension of your hands on teh end of a shaft. How the club face is oriented in your hands is not as obvious as you think. about 10% get this right.

The advantage at any point in your swing you know exactly where the club face is and what direction it's facing. Open closed, square, delofted, adding loft. Understanding what happens to the club face when you move your hands. and feeling as though it's an extentions of your hands will help you control your shots.

It's like a tennis racket. The head of the racket is the palm of your hand. you know if the racket is facing up, down, left, right. without even looking at it or better without thinking about it which is the most important thing. You can do this without thinking.

[broken27]

Happy BDay Dan Happy 31 if I am not mistaken!

31 it is.... (BURP)

I love the fact that I hate being over 30. It keeps me young. I get carded for cigarettes, but never for beer. If I'm 60 and someone cards me, I'll be happy.

Thanks Mike. Thanks Andru.

Andru, I haven't read, nor am I in any shape to, read your elaboration on holding the club head in the hand, but I will on Sunday... Too much booze between now and then..... And logo stuff...

Cheers *hic*

dan

[broken27]

The club head is on the end of a shaft.The club face is really an extension of your hands on teh end of a shaft. How the club face is oriented in your hands is not as obvious as you think. about 10% get this right.

The advantage at any point in your swing you know exactly where the club face is and what direction it's facing. Open closed, square, delofted, adding loft. Understanding what happens to the club face when you move your hands. and feeling as though it's an extentions of your hands will help you control your shots.

It's like a tennis racket. The head of the racket is the palm of your hand. you know if the racket is facing up, down, left, right. without even looking at it or better without thinking about it which is the most important thing. You can do this without thinking.

Okay, not too drunk to realize I'm right. You're talking about how the club head "sits" or "faces" when you hold the grip a certain way. I have actually "felt" my way into a ritual that really focuses my attention more on the club face at the 30% backswing (similar to Weir's "waggle") that checks me into a square position at impact. That's why I say my handicap will go down dramatically. I've taken the baseball out of my stroke (through last 3 months of last season and over the winter) and am hitting very straight and long with my 5W off the tee. I can get in play about 90% of the time.

My issue with fundamentals is that I never really learned properly how to "set" the club in my hands, and since most tutorials are written from a R-handed perspective, I have relied on "imagining" the same thing in a mirror.

I believe discussions like this are likely more beneficial to me in the short term than lessons, simply because golf is a game that allows philosophy to alter your score. When it was -3 degrees and only Gatineau was open, I played it thinking that "it doesn't matter, it's like a bonus round".

I shot the daylights outta myself, managing 9 pars on the course (a personal best) and losing strokes to pace-keeping while buying cases of beer at loblaws.

I love to "play" golf, and would almost rather never call myself a golfer.

Dan

[Andru]

I figured you had it. I just wanted to be sure I didn't sound like an idiot. 31 eh? You're still a young guy. I just turned 33 myself.

I had a break through last fall as well. I'm very optimistic about the coming golf season. I set up a net in my basement this winter and practiced my 1/4 1/2 and 3/4 swing shots all winter. I wanted to get the timing down and rhythm down.

I agree golf should be fun. I got pretty bad after my first 2 seasons. Then I changed completely. Now, I relax. Bad shots are just that bad shots. Go find it and hit it again.

Cheers

[Farzin]

The end of this year I finished off with 4 straight rounds in the 70's. a 76 at greensmere from the back tees, a 77 at angus gren south from the blues, and a 74 at Deer creek South in Ajax from the blues and a 75 at falcon ridge from the blues, .

These are awesome score Andru.
I don't know if you are playing OGT events or not, but if you do, I will be very pleased to meet you and watch you swing the club a round or two if I get a chance to play with you. There are a few low handicappers in OGT that would love to see some competition there too. that doesn' include me, I just try to bring some hype and fun to the games and off course improve my game at the same time, I have benefited from handicap system that helped me with my scores. how ever if you show up there, it would be a blast.

May 8th is the Day

[Andru]

These are awesome score Andru.
I don't know if you are playing OGT events or not, but if you do, I will be very pleased to meet you and watch you swing the club a round or two if I get a chance to play with you. There are a few low handicappers in OGT that would love to see some competition there too. that doesn' include me, I just try to bring some hype and fun to the games and off course improve my game at the same time, I have benefited from handicap system that helped me with my scores. how ever if you show up there, it would be a blast.

May 8th is the Day

Thanks I finished the season really hot. I kind of wish it didn't end. It's just breaking through a barrier that gets you jazzed again. It's all putting for me.

I've been thinking about joining for sometime now. I do want to establish an RCGA handicap for amateur events though. I currently track mine at a website. I'm on the brink of joining Canadian GCC. It's the only one in my area that doesn't cost 20K to join.

I'd like to play some fun/competitive rounds. I bet I'll recognize some of you from the practice facilities through out the city. I'm a range rat.

Only problem is I'm out of town quite a bit during the summer. so my attendence would be scattered. If this is ok. I'll consider doing it for sure. It would be nice or maybe not so so nice to put a face to some of the people I've been battling with on the boards.

I've seen the pics. It looks like a bunch of fun.

Andru

[NoBack]

Andru

Only problem is I'm out of town quite a bit during the summer. so my attendence would be scattered. If this is ok. I'll consider doing it for sure.

No problem with not playing in all events, as we use only the 8 best results for our leaderboard total. Some play in all events, some play in only 8 and some who are members at a course play less. Thus amount of events is not an issue.

I do want to establish an RCGA handicap for amateur events though.

Although OG Tour will not give you an official handicap, there are only 12 events to worry about if you play in all them, this wont hurt your official handicap if you join a club and track it through there. Just dont post those rounds.

It would be nice or maybe not so so nice to put a face to some of the people I've been battling with on the boards.

Agree 100% with this. It is a blast putting a face and a swing to the nickname on the forum. Meeting these people has been fun. Making new friends is even better.

[Farzin]

Andru

Good luck with joining GCC,

There are lots of event's schedueeled for this summer at different courses, you may want to pick the ones that are at your continence.

as far as battling on the forum goes, I have been enjoying reading the posts more than anything. They have been very informing, suggestive and helpful, except for some occasions that some posters have used the furom for self pleasing and their ego or infuriating others rather than sharing their thoughts .
specially the ones that just show up here and there once in a while with posts that have nothing to share but to say, yes they are the Smart A**'s., without giving anything. there have been some poking going on between friends that they know each other and that just adds to their friendship and brings more fun and laughter to the forum. I have been poked at by my friends and I have poked at them too, but that's just for fun.

[Andru]

Thanks that sounds great.

[Farzin]

Steve:
Sorry Budd:
My browser refreshed after I posted. a part of my reply to play at OGT is repetitive of what you suggesting.

[broken27]

Thanks that sounds great.

Because of a lack of transportation last season, I only played in 3 or 4 events on OGT in my first season. I can honestly say that those were the most enjoyable rounds of the season for me, and I'll be returning this season to play what I hope to be a full sched.

A testament to the quality of the people who play on this tour is that I met someone who was willing to go out of his way to give me a lift to some of the events (George aka 'faldo'). It's a great group of guys.

My buddy who bailed on the Tour last season leaving me stranded for a ride is committed to playing this season, so I'll be around way more. Hopefully I can continue not finishing last, and maybe even move up the leaderboard! One thing is for sure, I'll win the drinking contests.....

Dan

[NoBack]

One thing is for sure, I'll win the drinking contests.....

Now that's a thing that may be in debate broken27. Gonna have to pry the beer cart away form The Shtick as he was on top of his game at the events he played in. I may be 10-11 handicap player but I might also be a scratch drinker

Dan
sorry this got into another topic. Any way of using your "power that be's" to move these last few posts over to OG tour forum under another heading? Something like "why join the tour" maybe? Thanks

[broken27]

Now that's a thing that may be in debate broken27. Gonna have to pry the beer cart away form The Shtick as he was on top of his game at the events he played in. I may be 10-11 handicap player but I might also be a scratch drinker

Dan
sorry this got into another topic. Any way of using your "power that be's" to move these last few posts over to OG tour forum under another heading? Something like "why join the tour" maybe? Thanks

Well, I'm a pretty mediocre golfer, but I'm fairly sure that if you ask anyone I played with last season, they'll tell you I'm a John Daly-calibre drinker.

My handicap of 20 is pretty much in line with my drinking handicap. Unfortunately there's only 18 holes on a course, and you can only see the beer girl so often.... :cryin

I'm hoping I can cut down on the drinking by getting less frustrated with my game....

Construe this as a challenge/invitation if you want, but I'm just stating where my victories on tour last season were....

Dan

[Andru]

Well, I'm a pretty mediocre golfer, but I'm fairly sure that if you ask anyone I played with last season, they'll tell you I'm a John Daly-calibre drinker.

My handicap of 20 is pretty much in line with my drinking handicap. Unfortunately there's only 18 holes on a course, and you can only see the beer girl so often.... :cryin

I'm hoping I can cut down on the drinking by getting less frustrated with my game....

Construe this as a challenge/invitation if you want, but I'm just stating where my victories on tour last season were....

Dan

You guys are making this decision very easy.

[broken27]

You guys are making this decision very easy.

That's the nature of OGT as far as I can tell. I haven't been in it long enough to know for sure, but it seems that way.

Dude, I figure the best thing that can happen to OGT is that we get all kinds of different people and tons of them. Drinking aside, I learned a ton about the game, and met some really cool people. JOIN US SU NIOJ

It's a cult....

Dan

[mberube]

I hate talking about this but you asked. I started playing in 2000. I play between an 8 and 12. I posted 30 rounds at 80-82 last year. Metal block to break 80. Darn putting!!! Also had to battle an ankle injury.
The end of this year I finished off with 4 straight rounds in the 70's. a 76 at greensmere from the back tees, a 77 at angus gren south from the blues, and a 74 at Deer creek South in Ajax from the blues and a 75 at falcon ridge from the blues, even with those hairy greens at the end of last year. No rough though so I guess it evens out. Next year. I plan on being in the 70's all year. I want to be a solid single digit handicap. All I have to do is improve my short game ( bunker and extended 50-20 yard chip shots). Since ball striking is not an issue.

Very impressive. Even more with only 3 years experience. We should get together this summer and play match-play.

I have been playing for 8 years. I'm a 7.4 RCGA handicap. I am a member at Hautes Plaines (Le Dome). I wad a 6 handicap at the beginning of last year but haven’t played much cause I have a new baby girl. It eats up allot of my golf time.

I started playing competitively last year and its fun. I qualified for the Intersectional and we won hands down. This year I am joining the OVGA. I am hopping to play a couple of tournaments in Montreal this May to get an index to get in the Tunis and a couple of other QGA tournaments in Quebec. Bonus is that the regional QGA qualify is at my home course. I will have to bring my A game to qualify.

I am almost Finnish my renovations in the basement. I will start to practice my chipping and putting very soon.

Can't wait till golf season starts.