Pressing the ball into the green

[Ruskie]

Hi folks,

There are times when it is very hard, if not impossible, to keep the ball on the green from moving when trying to replace it after marking. I've always struggled with this, until someone suggested that I should press the ball into the green slightly. That solved the problem, but I'm wondering if that is a violation of the rules (testing the surface?). Any thoughts?

[AAA]

No, not testing the green but Improving the Lie. Rule 13-2.

[Ruskie]

Ok, so is there any legal way of making sure the ball stays put when replacing it on the green? What did they do at the Open this year? I seem to remember they had a lot of trouble on #10...

[Kilroy]

They would have suspended play if the balls would not remain in place on the green. It was very close.

[Ruskie]

Well, we don't have that option on a public course... yet I've had it happen to me plenty of times, due to wind, slope of the green, or both. So, the question remains: how can I legally ensure that my ball would remain in place after I replace it?

[Kilroy]

If the ball moves after you replace it but before you address it, you play it where it ends up.

If it moves after you address it (sole your putter) it's a one shot penalty and you replace it where it was before it moved.

Then you would mark it and start over.

[Ruskie]

What if I cannot replace it in the same spot without it moving before I remove the mark? AFAIU, I'm supposed to make sure it stays in the same spot without moving before I remove the mark... Should I allow it to move, remove the mark and then play it as it now lies?

[Kilroy]

If the marker has not been lifted you are still in the process of replacing the ball, so you can put it back without penalty.

[Ruskie]

Right, but I cannot put it back and have it stay in place, it moves.

I guess another way of looking at it is to draw an analogy with the procedure for dropping a ball. You take 3 drops and if the ball moves outside the drop area you place it. If it still doesn't stay, you place it as close as you can to the drop area. AFAIK, there's no such procedure for replacing the ball on the green.

[Kilroy]

2 decisions cover this

18-2a/6 Oscillating Ball Pressed into Surface of Putting Green
Q. A ball lying on the putting green was oscillating due to wind. The player firmly pressed the ball into the surface of the green and the ball stopped oscillating. The player then holed out. Was the player in breach of the Rules?
A. Yes. The player incurred a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2a when he moved his ball by pressing on it. Since the original lie of the ball was altered when the ball was firmly pressed down, the player was obliged to proceed under Rule 20-3b. Since he did not do so, he lost the hole in match play and incurred a total penalty of two strokes in stroke play — see penalty statement under Rule 18.

18-2a/7 Ball Moved by Wind Replaced
Q. In stroke play, a competitor’s ball was moved by wind. Since wind is not an outside agency (see Definition of “Outside Agency”), he should have played it from where it came to rest, but he replaced it. What is the ruling?
A. The competitor incurred one penalty stroke under Rule 18-2a, and, before playing his next stroke, he should have replaced the ball on the spot where it came to rest after being moved by the wind. If he did not do so, he incurred a total penalty of two strokes — see penalty statement under Rule 18.

[Kilroy]

I think this is what you were looking for.

20-3d. Ball Fails to Come to Rest on Spot
If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot:

(i) except in a hazard, it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard;
(ii) in a hazard, it must be placed in the hazard at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole.

If a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.

[Ruskie]

Thanks for looking those up Dan, but they're not quite what I meant.

Does Rule 20-3.d apply to marking balls on the green?

d. Ball Fails to Come to Rest on Spot
If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on
which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be
replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot:
(i) except in a hazard, it must be placed at the nearest spot
where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole
and not in a hazard;
(ii) in a hazard, it must be placed in the hazard at the nearest
spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer
the hole.
If a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is
placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the
ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other
Rule apply.

[Ruskie]

Damn, you beat me to it Thanks for the help Dan.

[AAA]

If the marker has not been lifted you are still in the process of replacing the ball, so you can put it back without penalty.

It might be worth checking this Dan

20-4/1

[BC MIST]

I guess another way of looking at it is to draw an analogy with the procedure for dropping a ball. You take 3 drops and if the ball moves outside the drop area you place it. If it still doesn't stay, you place it as close as you can to the drop area. AFAIK, there's no such procedure for replacing the ball on the green.

You may place the ball after the second drop, not the third. If you drop 3 times and then place, you are in trouble.