Slow play!!!

[jdoucet]

first of all i dont see what the starters age has to do with anything... second of all, you just need to relax and start playing golf, stop giving yourself 5 footers for double bogey and actually make them,

i have dealt with the starter because i play greensmere regularly hes a great kid and does a great job

[HTN2]

Slow play is discourteous, rude, and an affront to the civilized and considerate heritage of this great game.
Slow play is NOT caused by being a poor golfer, nor is it caused by difficult courses, nor poor weather or anything other than a disregard for others. Period.
I was behind a foursome today who were "right on time" according to the clock(which is yet ANOTHER cause of slow play). This group of idiots all walked onto the tee together, none with clubs. They then all stood on the tee together, doing nothing. Each idiot went and got his club only AFTER it was decided who was going to hit when. Then, 5 practice swings from one guy, and about 3 minutes frozen over the ball, only for him to hit it 15 feet. Couldn't he have accomplished that same 15 foot shot in the 1.5 seconds it actually takes to HIT the shot ? Instead of the 5-7 minutes he WASTED ? In the time it took my foursome to almost complete the previous hole, these idiots hadn't even hit a single tee shot. They should have been DONE teeing off, but they were rude. Standing on the tee talking and wasting everyone's time.
Golf can be just as relaxing without being RUDE and DISCOURTEOUS to everyone who follows you.
Stop standing around shooting the breeze, play golf, or go home.

[Shivas Irons]

Slow play is NOT caused by being a poor golfer

There's no reason why a poor golfer can't keep up to the group ahead, but let's face it, hitting the ball 150 times takes longer than hitting the ball 75 times.

I was behind a foursome today who were "right on time" ...This group of idiots all walked onto the tee together, none with clubs. They they all stood on the tee together, doing nothing. Each idiot went and got his club only AFTER it was decided who was going to hit when. Then, 5 practice swings from one guy, and about 3 minutes frozen over the ball, only for him to hit it 15 feet. Couldn't he have accomplished that same 15 foot shot in the 1.5 seconds it actually takes to HIT the shot ? Instead of the 5-7 minutes he WASTED ? In the time it took my foursome to almost complete the previous hole, these idiots hadn't even hit a single tee shot. Stop standing around shooting the breeze, play golf, or go home.

Wow, that's a lot of idiots!
Regardless of how annoying you think someone else's pre-shot routine is, you say this group was 'right on time'. If they are on time one must assume they are keeping up with the group in front of them. That's all that can be asked of any group.
You must have something pretty special waiting for you at home if you're that anxious to get off the course.

[golfisforfun]

Not every course has a posted "pace of play or playing time". A lot of people really enjoy getting out and relaxing and taking their time playing a round of golf. They pay their fees and are entitled to play 18 holes and if the course does not specify a pace of play policy, then that is the course's fault. Plain and simple.

18 holes at 15 min per hole is a 4.5 hour round. Nobody has the right to push a foursome to play any faster than that.

I love playing a fast round of golf. I do not take practice swings and play ready golf. I am a "feel" golfer so I don't pace of yardages and read putts from 6 different angles.

BUT...

I am still patient with other groups. I still find ways to keep a rythm and stay focused on my game.

There are a lot of things that slow play down and one of the BIGGEST issues is the drink cart. I have seen many groups spend a LOT of time getting food and drinks.

My big issue is all the golfers who need complete silence and tranquility before they hit. They want the wind to stop, the cars to stop driving by and the world to stop rotating. They take 6 practice swings, get ready to hit and then get distracted by a bird flying by so they start their routine all over.

Next time you play, count how long it takes for you and your partners to hit shots. Start counting the instant they get to their ball and it is their turn. It should take no more than 30 seconds and really should only be 15 seconds.

It is amazing cause I have played with guys who consistently take over 40 seconds!!!

The other NEW issue is all these rangefinders!!! They take way too long to use. People get to their ball, put bag down and look at the distance. Then they take the rangefinder out of the bulletproof case, check the yardage, put it back in the case, decide on a club, take some swings and finally hit the ball. THEN, best of all, they hit it short, long, left, right or chunk it 10 yards and start all over again.

Unless you are a single digit handicap, I am sure the 100, 150 and 200 yard markers are enough help. You are not consistant enough and do not know your distances within a few yards, so don't waste time getting exact yardage with a rangefinder.

[HTN2]

There's no reason why a poor golfer can't keep up to the group ahead, but let's face it, hitting the ball 150 times takes longer than hitting the ball 75 times.




Wow, that's a lot of idiots!
Regardless of how annoying you think someone else's pre-shot routine is, you say this group was 'right on time'. If they are on time one must assume they are keeping up with the group in front of them. That's all that can be asked of any group.
You must have something pretty special waiting for you at home if you're that anxious to get off the course.

No, when I say "right on time" I mean, when judged against the "estimated" time it *can* take to play the course, they were exactly at the MAXIMUM amount of time it *should* take to play the course.

They had lost 2 complete holes to the group ahead, before they made it to the 6th hole....(and they didn't allow us through until the 10th, AFTER my game had been derailed by the huge, un-necessary waits).

Neither you, nor anyone else has the right to judge the value of my time. Making statements like "boy you must have something pretty special to do that you need to be off the course so fast" assumes an awful lot. Taking more time to play, THAN IS NECESSARY is discourteous to the others using the course. Its just like the person who stops in a doorway to answer their cell phone and makes EVERYONE else behind them trying to get through the doorway wait. THEIR time is more important ?

This is just the primary reason why slow play is a scourge, there are many others. Like, how many fewer groups get to enjoy the course when the average round takes 5 hours ??

And how many times have you been hit with inclement weather JUST because the group ahead added 1 or 2 HOURS to the length of your round ??

People who play without undue delay, do no harm to other golfers trying to enjoy their round, however, the same is not true of the golfers who dawdle along and blow away 5 and 6 hours without thought to their negative impact on others.

Also, there is a HUGE difference between "hurry" and playing without undue delay. I've been part of foursome of walkers, none younger than 40, none better than 12 handicaps, all who putt out every putt, all who try to find every ball(and then some), but who rarely, if ever exceed 3 hours for 18 holes of golf, and NEVER hurry, NEVER even walk quickly ! The reason is simple, we always follow simple golf etiquette to make the course more accessible to ALL. There is NEVER a time when you aren't ready to hit, there is NEVER a time when someone stands on the tee and finishes their conversation BEFORE teeing off, and there is NEVER a time when one will have to trek all the way back to the cart for another club their going to mis-hit anyway(we all carry or push). Also, after teeing off, we ALL prepare to leave the tee, immediately. Its simple, put your club away and throw the bag on the back, last person hits, you are all ready to go...Another time saver is watching where the people in your group hit their balls, then helping find them, or determine where the drop point is.

Golf is supposed to be a community BUILDING experience, by playing slowly, you are alienating a large portion of the present community, and preventing many from joining.

[golfisforfun]

"Golf is supposed to be a community BUILDING experience, by playing slowly, you are alienating a large portion of the present community, and preventing many from joining. "

What???

Who says golf is supposed to be a community BUILDING experience.

Is that a definition from Websters? I don't get it...

[rancherJ]

I've been part of foursome of walkers, none younger than 40, none better than 12 handicaps, all who putt out every putt, all who try to find every ball(and then some), but who rarely, if ever exceed 3 hours for 18 holes of golf, and NEVER hurry, NEVER even walk quickly !

3 hrs for a foursome on a regulation course without walking fast seems a little bit ambitious. If I can get 18 holes in with a foursome at the 4 hr mark (give or take 5-7 min.)I feel confident our group has kept pace,and then some,by anyones standards. would I be considered slow?

[Shivas Irons]

They had lost 2 complete holes to the group ahead, before they made it to the 6th hole.

Fair enough, being 2 holes behind is unacceptable anytime, let alone after only 6 holes.

Making statements like "boy you must have something pretty special to do that you need to be off the course so fast" assumes an awful lot.

Actually what I said was :

You must have something pretty special waiting for you at home if you're that anxious to get off the course.

Easy now, the meant the comment was intended as tongue-in-cheek, eluding to the one and only activity may of us would miss golf for.

And how many times have you been hit with inclement weather JUST because the group ahead added 1 or 2 HOURS to the length of your round ??.

1-2 hours? Never.

Golf is supposed to be a community BUILDING experience,

No, Habitat for Humanity is a community building experience.

[justsomeguy]

The other NEW issue is all these rangefinders!!! They take way too long to use.

The primary reason that tournaments are allowing rangefinders is that they SPEED UP play. I've never used one, but I've used carts with GPS and I think they have a positive impact on pace of play.

Unless you are a single digit handicap, I am sure the 100, 150 and 200 yard markers are enough help. You are not consistant enough and do not know your distances within a few yards, so don't waste time getting exact yardage with a rangefinder.

I'm certainly not a single-digit handicap, but I can verify that the yardage markers are often NOT enough for me. With my high ball flight, I need to know exactly where the pin is.

First of all, yardage markers don't exist on par 3's. Secondly, yardage markers can be hard to find on some courses and/or impossible to see when you're on the tee. Thirdly, yardage information on signage and scorecards is often insufficient, incorrect and/or conflicting. Finally, some courses have large greens and incorrect or non-existent pin position indicators. The end result of all this is that you can waste a lot of time trying to "guess" which club to use.

Some courses have very good yardage information, and a rangefinder may not be necessary - but many courses fail miserably in this regard. In those cases, I think "guessing" on your club selection and then playing an extra chip shot because you missed the green is going to take more time than getting exact yardage with a rangefinder.

[Brewcee]

Slow play is what drives me away from the golf course, playing 18 holes in 2.5 hours last night at Metcalfe is what keeps me coming back. We got there just as the storm started, waited for it to pass (after everyone had come in to get their rain check) and then went out. Didn't see a single soul for the enitre front nine, had one group 2 holes ahead of us on the back nine. 2 of played with a cart.

I also managed to play 9 holes in 45min on Saturday teeing off at 7:30pm (with a cart). I have often thought that if there was some coefficient that took your score and your time of play that I would be pretty good. Thats until marathon runners started to play.

[BillD]

Agree completely with everything you are saying HTN2. Slow play is a result of arrogance, rudeness and a total disregard for others. The amount of equivocation in some of the replies in this thread also illustrates part of the problem. Slow play and a disregard for others' time should NOT be tolerated under any circumstance. the argument "where else do you have to be" is totally ridiculous.

[golfisforfun]

Slow play and a disregard for others' time should NOT be tolerated under any circumstance.

Telling people they have to golf faster or that they have to pick up and move on to the next hole is completely disrespectful and should not be tolerated. UNLESS the course has a Pace of Play message posted. Otherwise, I have every right to take my time and enjoy myself and take as many shots as required to finish my 18 holes. If I take my wife and son out to golf, we will be sure to relax, have fun and take every shot we want.

If you have a limited amount of time to play in, go to a course that enforces a pace of play policy.

[314314]

Few other sports depend so greatly on the integrity and good temperament of the players than golf. Unlike other sports, golf does not depend on the supervision of referees or umpires. Players are expected to both understand the rules and etiquette of the game. Golf is a game that relies not only on skill and talent, but also on proper conduct and sportsmanship. Good etiquette on the green will ensure maximum enjoyment of the game for all players.

Golf is gentleman’s and gentlewoman’s sport. Players should take the time to study the rules of the game. The rules serve to improve the game by sustaining the pace of play, maintaining the quality of the golf course, and ensuring the safety of the players. The spirit of the game depends on players demonstrating discipline and sportsmanship at all times regardless of how competitive they are. If you are new to the game, or just need to refresh your golf etiquette, here are some basic considerations that will help keep the game enjoyable for you and those around you.

Golfers must always play without delay, in order to maintain the pace of the game. The pace of the game requires players to ready to hit the ball when their turn arrives. The order of play is always the farthest from the whole first. Players should carry two uniquely marked balls. In order to reduce the time for taking a shot, players should study the shot while the other players are preparing to hit. A player should always hit the shot within 45 seconds of the previous player’s stroke. Golfers should never crowd the previous group or lag behind.

On the green, golfers must fix their ball marks with care. They should not leave bare ground or smooth surface where the ball mark was. Golfers should never dig under a ball mark or leverage the soil upward. Players should always remove the peg from the tee after hitting. It is a breach of etiquette to leave a tee or push the tee into the ground. On the bunkers, players should leave the bunker as they found it. A few strokes of the rake will smooth the sand and remove any trace of footprints. The golden rule is to leave the golf course as the player found it and avoid excessive damage.

Although golf is not a contact sport, players must avoid injuring themselves or fellow golfers. One player is permitted on the tee at a time. Players should never stand behind a golfer on the tee or anywhere on the course. Players should always be mindful of the group in front of them. If a golfer is hitting is the direction of other players, the golfer should shout the traditional warning of “fore”.

Golf etiquette is an essential part of the game. Consideration of other golfers is absolutely required. Players must be still and silent while other players are hitting. Disturbing or distracting another player is simply unacceptable and contradictory to the spirit of the game. Everyone wants to score and play well on the golf course, but good golf also depends on having a good attitude and being extremely considerate.

posted by Games

Taken from the following link:

http://golfonlineinfo.blogspot.com/2...etiquette.html

[HTN2]

Slow play and a disregard for others' time should NOT be tolerated under any circumstance.

Telling people they have to golf faster or that they have to pick up and move on to the next hole is completely disrespectful and should not be tolerated. UNLESS the course has a Pace of Play message posted. Otherwise, I have every right to take my time and enjoy myself and take as many shots as required to finish my 18 holes. If I take my wife and son out to golf, we will be sure to relax, have fun and take every shot we want.

If you have a limited amount of time to play in, go to a course that enforces a pace of play policy.

Then you aren't playing golf.

An integral part of the game is RULES and ETIQUETTE. Etiquette is a certain type of behavior which is required, it is not optional. If you choose to flout those rules and etiquette, you are not playing golf. If you're not playing golf, go somewhere else with your wife and son, perhaps to take some lessons on golf rules and etiquette.

There seems to be a recurring theme to those who "prefer" to play slowly, and that is " no one is going to tell me what to do " .

That is part of golf, being self disciplined and telling YOURSELF that you MUST comply with the rules and etiquette golf demands.

When you go to a golf course to play the game of golf, you aren't BUYING the course, you aren't even RENTING the course for any length of time, you are simply paying for the privilege of playing a game that requires the use of a facility which must be shared by all. By going to a golf course, and paying your money, you are indicating that you KNOW you are playing a game complete with rules and etiquette which control your use of that facility.

[macspesh]

Couldn't agree more HTN2.
Consideration and respect for others is what it's all about.

[Shivas Irons]

Slow play is a result of arrogance, rudeness and a total disregard for others..

Not in my experience it isn't. It is a result of ignorance.
On public courses there are many people who are new to the game who have no idea they should be keeping up to the group in front of them. Nobody plays slowly just to piss off the group behind them.

If you are consistently held up at the same course, and time is of the essence for you, why continue to frequent that same course?

In any event, whining about slow play is a recurring theme in this forum and it has been beaten to death in a number of threads. If there are open holes in front of you tell the marshall, or pro shop, but you're really preaching to the choir here.

the argument "where else do you have to be" is totally ridiculous.

Agreed, but nobody is making that argument.

[sharkshooter]

Played Casselview yesterday. 5:20 is not an acceptable pace of play - even a tournament should play that fast. The foursome in front of us was clearly 2 holes behind the group ahead of them, and the marshalls had been watching us on 2 holes!! We waited on every single shot over the whole round. When we said something to the starter after 9 (in 2:45) I don't think they even said anything to them.

[Mightiestmik]

I played Manderly today, was paired up with another 2 walkers (who play blue tees, I usually don't but did to fit in), We all played well and flew through the south course, but on central we caught up to the group ahead of us, who had caught the group ahead of them. All in all it took us 4 hours 10 minutes to play, but we spent close to an hour and 40 minutes on the last 3.5 holes

Today at Manderly on 18 (9 Central), there were 2 twosomes and our group of three all on the tee boxes at the same time. And for some reason, the twosomes didn't pair up and tee off together, then after the 1st twosome (group A) has hit their 3rd shot into the creek (then sat in their carts while the group ahead of them putted out before getting out of their cart to look for their balls in the creek) the 2nd twosome (group B) wouldn't tee off, thinking that they could somehow hit Group A.

So after our group fairly politely suggested they should tee off and were ignored, I told them that I've only ever hit across the creek once from the white tees with a strong tailwind and with todays wind coming right at us they wouldn't hit their drives even close. They still didn't tee off, until I told him I'd give him 5 bucks if he physically hit the group ahead of us. One of them replied make it 10 as the other guy placed his tee in the ground for the challenge, and I told him I'd make it 100.

He was 145 yards short.

We teed off while they drove to their balls on the cart path along the other side of the trees.

I think the most frustrating thing ever is when (and it happens both ways) either the group behind you is rushing you, seems like they are always on your ass (and I'm not playing slowly) or when the group ahead of you thinks they have caught the group ahead of them and can't tee off.... but the group is clearly far enough ahead that if they hit their best drive ever they'd be extremely lucky to roll it to them.

[Bouche]

Not in my experience it isn't. It is a result of ignorance.
On public courses there are many people who are new to the game who have no idea they should be keeping up to the group in front of them. Nobody plays slowly just to piss off the group behind them.

If you are consistently held up at the same course, and time is of the essence for you, why continue to frequent that same course?

In any event, whining about slow play is a recurring theme in this forum and it has been beaten to death in a number of threads. If there are open holes in front of you tell the marshall, or pro shop, but you're really preaching to the choir here.



Agreed, but nobody is making that argument.

Read my post above and the same thing happened to me at casselview. I love that course but the marshalls need a talking 2!

[Golfbum]

Slow play and a disregard for others' time should NOT be tolerated under any circumstance.

Telling people they have to golf faster or that they have to pick up and move on to the next hole is completely disrespectful and should not be tolerated. UNLESS the course has a Pace of Play message posted. Otherwise, I have every right to take my time and enjoy myself and take as many shots as required to finish my 18 holes. If I take my wife and son out to golf, we will be sure to relax, have fun and take every shot we want.

If you have a limited amount of time to play in, go to a course that enforces a pace of play policy.

The above statement leads to 5 hour rounds of golf.

Why is it that some people think they can not relax while playing a round of golf in 4 hours or less? Do you know what is not relaxing? Waiting on every shot I have to take during a 4 1/2 hour + round of golf. That is not relaxing, that is frustrating.


I have played with guys who shoot in the high 90's and they are relaxed and we still play 18 in 4 hours or less. They hit all their shots too, never pick up.

Oh BTW, we have FUN TOO.

[Bouche]

I can handle slow play when its a full course or a tournament but when it comes to the lack of someone doing their job it frustrates me and throws me off my game.

[justsomeguy]

So after our group fairly politely suggested they should tee off and were ignored, I told them that I've only ever hit across the creek once from the white tees with a strong tailwind and with todays wind coming right at us they wouldn't hit their drives even close. They still didn't tee off, until I told him I'd give him 5 bucks if he physically hit the group ahead of us. One of them replied make it 10 as the other guy placed his tee in the ground for the challenge, and I told him I'd make it 100.

If you CAN hit someone ahead of you then you shouldn't hit at all. Not only is it dangerous, but the fact that you know you could hit them causes additional tension and usually results in a bad shot anyway.

You've stated that you have hit the ball over the creek, and the group ahead was not even on the other side yet. I'm not a particularly long hitter, but I have hit the ball over the creek with a perfect strike - so if the group ahead is not on the other side then I'm not hitting. Furthermore, I know many other golfers who could easily hit over the creek (I believe it is a 260 yard carry from the whites), and I would never presume to know the distances and playing ability of strangers I just met on the golf course. Safety trumps pace-of-play every time.

[Golfbum]

I can handle slow play when its a full course or a tournament but when it comes to the lack of someone doing their job it frustrates me and throws me off my game.

Who is not doing their job? The starter? He sends groups off the first tee every 8 to 10 minutes. Now one thing starters should do is take two groups of two and join them up on the first tee if possible. On a weekend there should not be twosomes going off the first tee back to back. Join them up. What a novel idea. It allows people to meet someone they have not met before. If people are worried about being embarrassed by their game, stop worrying about it. Not everyone is a PRO Golfer and people have to realize that.

The Ranger? The owners instruct Rangers to try to move groups along. However when it comes to kicking a slow group off the course, forget it. Owners do not want that to happen. Why? Simple, that group will never return to that course. Lost revenue in the future.

Bottom line is, there is no excuse for slow play IMO other than people being rude and inconsiderate of the the people playing behind them.

Those with the the attitude of "I paid my money, I am going to take my time, relax, go at my own pace and not give a damn about anyone else" are the ones who cause slow play.

They could care less about someone else waiting on every shot behind them. The could care less if it takes 4 1/2 to 5 hours to play a round of golf. Then they think if they let a group past them that they will be held up You do not own the golf course, you do not have the right to slow down everyone else on that course.

You will not change their attitudes. I have seen people like that on golf courses for the past 26 years, as I am sure many others have.

You can beat this issue until it is black and blue. However it will not change until the people with the "I don't give a damn about anyone else" change their attitude and pick the pace up.

Slow play will not go away until course owners kick slow players off their courses. What amazes me is the fact that course owners do not want to offend the slow players. Yet they are causing the faster players frustration. Now if a course has a reputation of slow play I am not going to play there. So they have lose my revenue. Would it not be better to gain the revenue of faster players and lose the revenue of a couple of groups of slower players?

You and only you can control slow play. Loss the attitude that "I paid, I am taking my time" and rounds of golf will speed up every where.

I know you paid big dollars to play that round of golf. But please play from the Tee Decks you are capable of playing from. If your average drive is 200 yards do not step up to THE TIPS, just because "I paid to play here, I am playing the whole course" Having 250 yards in on a Par 4 can't be fun can it? Suck up the Macho Attitude and get on the tees that provide you with a comfortable yardage to play from. No, you are not Tiger Woods, you can not drive the ball 300 yards. Be honest with yourself, it will make your round of golf more enjoyable, plus it will help speed up play.

Do not stand in the fairway on a 500 yard Par 5 and wait to hit your second shot to the green when you just "Hammered Your Drive 225 yards off the tee" You still have 275 left, you ain't going to reach that green in two So why waste 5 minutes waiting for that green to clear? Hit your layup, get in your cart and get moving so I can tee off behind you.

HAPPY GOLFING

[macspesh]

You want to drive 80km/h?...fantastic...just get out of the left lane!!!

[golfisforfun]

I agree with the "play the tees that fit your ability" idea 100% !!!!!!!!!!!!!

And in my opinion, unless you are shooting in the 70's, you have no business playing Blue Tees. You are not good enough.

Hitting fairways and greens speeds up play, so if you can't hit hit faiways and greens from the whites, then you definitely can't hit them from the blues!!!

[Bouche]

Im sorry but what I was pointing out was that the marshals have an important job in ensuring that everything on a course runs smoothly. Casselview in my view lacks this because when you need to inform the marshal that the group ahead of us is two holes behind. (this would be proper etiquette rather then hitting into them and being frustrated) The marshal should acknowledge your complaint (AND DO HIS JOB!!) and push the group to get back on track (Even a warning is better then nothing). I dont care if there taking there time then let us play through but that should be the very last possibility. As I said earlier its when the marshals become ignorant of the problem that really gets me steaming. Its like watching someone do a half *** job and getting away with it. In the case a couple weeks ago jordan and his buddies finished his round in 4 1/2 hours and he was 2 groups ahead of us where we finished in 5 1/4 - 5 1/2 because of the group in between us. This could have been resolved by one person but nooooo he didnt bother and just drove off. I was ready to chase him down and tackle his cart LOL!!!

[Mightiestmik]

If you CAN hit someone ahead of you then you shouldn't hit at all. Not only is it dangerous, but the fact that you know you could hit them causes additional tension and usually results in a bad shot anyway.

You've stated that you have hit the ball over the creek, and the group ahead was not even on the other side yet. I'm not a particularly long hitter, but I have hit the ball over the creek with a perfect strike - so if the group ahead is not on the other side then I'm not hitting. Furthermore, I know many other golfers who could easily hit over the creek (I believe it is a 260 yard carry from the whites), and I would never presume to know the distances and playing ability of strangers I just met on the golf course. Safety trumps pace-of-play every time.

I have hit over the creek from the Whites with a strong Tail wind, I didn't even come close to the creek with the wind in my face from the blues... its gotta be 310 yards from the blue.