Decisions on the Rules of Golf - Say What??

[hackzaw]

In researching something, I've gone to the Decisions on the Rules of Golf:

http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/...decisions.html

While reading some of these decisions, my reaction when reading them is almost always "Say What!!! You've got to be kidding me"

First off, I find the scenerios so complex and hypothetical that you ask yourself how likely is that to happen. Take the following as an example:

Decision 4-4a/6
Excess Club Put in Player's Golf Bag After Player Has Counted His Clubs at 1st Tee; Error Discovered After Player Has Started Round

Q: A arrives at the 1st tee, counts his clubs and confirms that he is carrying fourteen. He then removes his driver from his golf bag, leaves the bag beside the tee and checks in with the starter. At this point, X, a player in another match or group, by mistake puts his putter in A's golf bag, which was identical to X's bag. A then drives from the 1st tee. During play of the 1st hole, A discovers that X's club has been put in his (A's) golf bag. Does A incur a penalty for starting the round with more than 14 clubs?

A: Yes.

Really. This actually happened to someone? And player A would actually use X's club to his benefit. Where's the common sense here? So at your next tournament, when your FC isn't looking, sneak one of your clubs in his bag and penalize him on too many clubs, and then ask for your club back.

I just cite this one example, but I urge others to look at the decisions and try to find some with common sense. You could almost make them up, too:

Q: During a rain delay, lightening strikes player A's bag, and moltenizes his putter into liquid metal, which inadvertently runs into player B's bag which was lying on the ground beside A's bag. The molten metal reforms into the exact same putter it was while in A's bag, but because A and B are identical twins, and both bought the same identical set of clubs, is player B penalized for playing with too many clubs despite two identical putters?

A: ?????

[dreaded_snowman]

I'm surprised that there is a penalty in this case, since the player was both unaware of the extra club AND did not put the club in their bag themselves. What if player A had noticed that the club was put in there prior to moving? How far into the bag does the shaft have to go before the penalty is incurred? You could have a great game of this... you slip your putter into your FCs bag, only to find upon your return that he has dropped all of his irons plus a ball retriever into your bag.....

Rob

[justsomeguy]

In researching something, I've gone to the Decisions on the Rules of Golf:

http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/...decisions.html

While reading some of these decisions, my reaction when reading them is almost always "Say What!!! You've got to be kidding me"

First off, I find the scenerios so complex and hypothetical that you ask yourself how likely is that to happen.

The Decisions are really intended for rules officials and those who have more than a passing interest in the Rules of Golf, rather than casual golfers. They are useful when researching the answer to a particular situation that does not seem to be addressed in the Rules of Golf - but that's about it.

Some of them ARE very complex - but most of them are not "hypothetical". Somewhere at sometime each situation actually happened and an official "decision" had to made - hence the name of the book.

Take the following as an example:

Decision 4-4a/6
Excess Club Put in Player's Golf Bag After Player Has Counted His Clubs at 1st Tee; Error Discovered After Player Has Started Round

Q: A arrives at the 1st tee, counts his clubs and confirms that he is carrying fourteen. He then removes his driver from his golf bag, leaves the bag beside the tee and checks in with the starter. At this point, X, a player in another match or group, by mistake puts his putter in A's golf bag, which was identical to X's bag. A then drives from the 1st tee. During play of the 1st hole, A discovers that X's club has been put in his (A's) golf bag. Does A incur a penalty for starting the round with more than 14 clubs?

A: Yes.

Really. This actually happened to someone? And player A would actually use X's club to his benefit. Where's the common sense here? So at your next tournament, when your FC isn't looking, sneak one of your clubs in his bag and penalize him on too many clubs, and then ask for your club back.

You have to be very careful that your facts match the Decision precisely when interpreting them. Change one fact and the Decision may no longer apply - many people forget this and try to make a Decision "fit" their facts when it really doesn't.

In this particular decision, the extra club was added BEFORE A's round had started but not discovered until AFTER his round had started. That makes a difference.

[hackzaw]

In my opinion, this decision is completely stupid, but I can understand at the same time that it could be abused by someone if they got caught with an extra club, they could just say it must have been someone else's and they put it in the wrong bag.

Player A surely didn't intentionally carry too many clubs, and in fact, even counted how many clubs he had at the tee prior to teeing off, so he was diligent in making sure he didn't have too many..... just not diligent enough. Kind of reminds me of checking luggage at the airport when they ask you if you packed your own bag and it hasn't been left unattended.

I guess we'll all just have to keep one eye on the ball and one eye on the bag in case some idiot accidently puts the wrong club in your bag.

To play devil's advocat... let's say at some point you come across someone's club that was left on a hole by accident. Do you dare pick it up? Do you put it in your bag to take to the proshop? To make things black and white, the second you're holding that club in your hands, you're in posession of it..... better not even think about putting that club in your bag for convenience of carrying it!!

[spackler]

To play devil's advocat... let's say at some point you come across someone's club that was left on a hole by accident. Do you dare pick it up? Do you put it in your bag to take to the proshop? To make things black and white, the second you're holding that club in your hands, you're in posession of it..... better not even think about putting that club in your bag for convenience of carrying it!!

4-4a/8 Retrieving Another Player’s Lost Club
Q.A player carrying 14 clubs found another player’s club on the course. He picked up the lost club, put it in his bag but did not use it, and handed it in at the pro shop when the round was completed. Was the player in breach of Rule 4-4a for carrying 15 clubs?
A. No.

[hackzaw]

Aha! Hadn't come across that one yet.

And this is where I just don't understand... in the lost club example, good decision. BUT, it opens the door for dishonest people. I see my FC with 15 clubs, he says "Oh no... I found this on the last hole"

The decision about starting a round with 15 clubs, one of which was player X's. Player A is penalized for something he knew nothing about. But the decision applies to all, therefore leaving no loopholes for dishonest people.

The two decisions are inconsistent in principal.

So what Player A should have done on the first hole when he noticed the extra club that didn't belong to him, was to quietly leave it on the ground when nobody was looking, then say that someone has lost a club and return it to his bag.

What if you found a club, forgot to hand it in at the end of the round. The next day you're at the first tee, hit your first shot, and when putting your club back, you notice the lost club, and hand it to the starter. Penalty or no penalty? (Clearly penalty)

[justsomeguy]

This is exactly what I meant when I said that the Decisions are not really intended for casual golfers. People who are not already familiar with the Rules of Golf tend to read a lot more into the Decisions than what is actually there. You cannot read a Decision in isolation of the Rule that it goes along with - that's why the USGA site is much better for looking up rules questions.

In this case, you FIRST have to read the applicable rule carefully and realize the EVERY word is important (note my emphasis):

Rule 4-4 Maximum of 14 Clubs
a. Selection and Addition of Clubs - The player must not start a stipulated round with more than 14 clubs. He is limited to the clubs thus selected for that round, except that if he started with fewer than 14 clubs, he may add any number, provided his total number does not exceed 14.

This Decision basically reinforces others that the start of a stipulated round occurs when a ball is put in play - not when the player walks up to the first tee. In this case the player STARTED with more than 14 clubs - the question is does it matter WHO put the extra club in his bag. The answer is that it doesn't. This also reinforces other Decisions where the reason a player started with 15 clubs doesn't really matter.

The Rules of Golf may not always seem fair, but they are remarkably consistent.

[justsomeguy]

And this is where I just don't understand... in the lost club example, good decision. BUT, it opens the door for dishonest people. I see my FC with 15 clubs, he says "Oh no... I found this on the last hole"

I think it is impossible for a set of rules to be devised that would eliminate cheating. Many, many people have discovered that it is very easy to cheat at golf and not get caught.

The Rules and Decisions are based on facts, and assume that players are honest. Establishing what the facts of the situation really are - that is left up to the judgement of rules officials and committees.

If the above example were the facts of the situation (i.e., it was discovered that he was in fact carrying his own club), then the player would undoubtedly be disqualified under Rule 33-7. You would also be disqualified under 33-7 if the facts of the situation were that you intentionally placed an extra club in somebody else's bag.

[AAA]

As justsome says - don't try getting involved in the decisions until you are have fully read and digested the rule.
A referee will rarely resort to the decisions book on course (apart from the fact it is too heavy to lug around). It's virually all done by reading the rules literally.

[hackzaw]

Funny - I didn't even read the rule, but it doesn't change my mind in this case that this decision is a stupid one. The decision states that on the first tee prior to teeing off, he counted his clubs and only had 14. There would be absolutely no good reason to recount. Would you.... or for that matter, do you?

You mention the rules and decisions are based on the premise that the golfer is honest. There will always be golfers that will cheat. So in this case, if he found a club after he started his stipulated round, but said "I counted only 14 clubs minutes before I tee'd off, and now there's this club in here that doesn't even belong to me". Why would a penalty be imposed if the rules and decisions are based on believing what the golfer says?

I know, I know.... the rule says you can't start a round with more than 14 clubs. I get it. It doesn't matter where or who the club came from. It all makes perfect sense. Doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion that the decision was pure non-sense based on the facts as they're described.

It would be like out shopping in a department store, and before you leave, you check your pockets before going through the security scanner. But then you go look at something just before leaving, and someone puts something in your pocket without you knowing. "Honest Mr. Securitas, I didn't put that in my pocket. I didn't even know it was there". I guess when I put it like that, it sure is unbelievable.