Club Storage Burns Down

[justsomeguy]

At the risk of getting my head chewed off, I tell my customers that they are better off settling small (under $2000) home insurance claims themselves. First, you'll have your deductible to pay, then you lose your claims-free discount. Then, god forbid something major happens where you really don't have a choice about claiming or not. Now you've had 2 claims on your property policy. You will likely be dropped by your insurance company! If you want to see expensive, try shopping around your house with 2 claims. I know nobody likes to hear this but it is a cold reality of the marketplace. As regards the waiver, I believe the waiver for property damage is valid. A waiver for bodily injury is not valid.

OK, I'll chew that head!

How has buykrux or any other members of this golf club demonstrated themselves as a greater risk to the insurance company because of this event? Of course they haven't - unless they were actually involved in burning down the storage shed! So what justification does their insurance company have for increasing premiums and/or denying insurance coverage? The answer is none.

All these people have demonstrated is that if an insured loss happens, they will actually file a claim for it! Well geez, isn't that what they paid insurance premiums for in the first place? In fact, they've probably paid a waaay more $$$ in premiums over the years than the cost of new set of golf clubs.

Now if an accident occurs for which I am at least partly responsible, I can understand how I should bear some of the costs (through higher premiums in the future). But the reason people buy insurance is to guard against unforeseen events, so when these events happen then should not be asked to pay for them too. To me the whole notion that you should pay for something but never use it is just crazy.

[Sakuraba]

Statistically speaking, you are more likely to have a future loss if you have claimed one in the past. Insurance companies charge much more for people with losses.
If you don't believe me, go online & get some home quotes with no claims, one claim, and 2 claims. Is it right or ethical? Well, if you were the insurance company, would you charge the same premium to someone who was more likely to make a future claim?
All I'm saying is modern property insurance is designed to protect you against large, catastrophic financial losses like a fire or a lawsuit, not a stolen snowblower.
Its the losses that drive up the rates for everyone.

[buykrux]

insurance companys are rip offs
my grandpa's been paying premiums for over 40 years and never filed a claim
now because of this his premiums going to go up for something that he is not responsible for what so ever
i can see a storm brewingggggg

[justsomeguy]

Statistically speaking, you are more likely to have a future loss if you have claimed one in the past. Insurance companies charge much more for people with losses.

That is not simply not true, statistically or otherwise.

What is true that you are more likely to have a future CLAIM if you have had one in the past. Insurance companies charge much more for people with CLAIMS, not people with losses.

I could burn down my own shed - totally on purpose - just because I like to watch things burn. Am I more likely to have future losses? Absolutely! Am I a greater risk to my insurance company than my next-door neighbour? You bet I am! Will my insurance rates go up? NO WAY, as long as I don't file a claim for it!

But heaven help my poor next-door neighbour if he files a claim for the lawnmower I borrowed and left in the shed!! Nope, he's not the sort of customer we want!

[Sakuraba]

by loss I mean insurance claim

[Golfbum]

Rick - You're forgetting one little thing...........PROOF that you actually OWNED what you say you owned if you don't have receipts or a video inventory they WILL give you a hard time. Also unless you have a special rider the chances of having $1000's worth of high-end golf equipment replaced is between zero and none. I have a special rider on my sticks at the strong suggestion of my agent

Gee I thought everyone had photos of their sticks? In this age of digital cameras there is no reason not to have photos.

Plus remember Scott, if you play at a private course most Pro's will have some idea of what you had in your bag.

I do not have a rider on mine but is a very good idea if you have a lot invested.
When you start adding up the replacement costs it surprises you

[Hacker]

Gee I thought everyone had photos of their sticks? In this age of digital cameras there is no reason not to have photos.

Plus remember Scott, if you play at a private course most Pro's will have some idea of what you had in your bag.

I do not have a rider on mine but is a very good idea if you have a lot invested.
When you start adding up the replacement costs it surprises you

I agree 100% with the comments in bold

But I'm thinking that 'life' often gets in the way and we forget to do things like take pictures of our "stuff". What caused me to insure my clubs was the incident last year when a bunch of Scotties went missing from an esteemed member's garage (sorry to open old wounds) - that make me want to ensure my stuff.

I would really like to believe that most insurance companies would take a Club Pro's word for what is in your bag.........but my experience has been that the proof is required

[justsomeguy]

by loss I mean insurance claim

...which kinda proves my point. Insurance companies use the words "loss" and "claim" interchangeably like they mean the same thing. They don't.

Everybody who stored their clubs at this golf club has suffered a "loss". Those who have property insurance have already paid their own hard-earned $$$ in advance in order to be compensated for it.

Nobody who stored their golf clubs at this golf club has demonstrated that they are a greater risk today then they were last week. The fire was an accident that had nothing to do with them. Insurance companies will point to "claim" statistics to "prove" that these people are somehow a greater risk, but that argument has no logical basis in fact at all. S%*t happens to all of us.

The industry uses the word "loss" when they're selling you property insurance, but then switches to the word "claim" when you need to use it. They use future premium increases and threats of blackballing to punish those customers who actually use their product - even when the customer is not at fault for their loss.

I don't think this is a good way to do business. If property insurance is now essentially a "user-pay" system, then what do we pay premiums for? Are we simply gambling that one day we might have "the big claim" that is larger than all the premiums we paid plus the punishment we will receive for filing it? It seems to me that the price of "peace of mind" is a lot higher than it used to be.

[buykrux]

on the same not tho
i know guys who have new irons and new drivers every time they come to the course
they are constantly trading in and buy new equipment
there is no way the club pros can keep an idea of everyone and what they have especially guys like that
not even the backshop boys

[lms]

I have never understood why anyone would leave their clubs in the possession of the golf club when every course I have ever belonged to had the same sign stating they were not responsible for anything. Even when my clubs were worth almost nothing and I almost always played the same course I still took them home with me.

As for insurance, you are usually much better off eating a small loss like a set of clubs than filing a claim against your own insurance.

[tacks451]

1- So i have insurance why? so i can just give money away?
2- I have club storage because i support my club and I support the job creation for the youngsters that clean them, bring them out for me when i go play. I have club storage because I pay insurance and when unfortunate events occur it is my right to utilize a service i pay for!!!!!!!!!! As previously stated my dad lost his classic set of Berylium copper pings and hasnt made a claim in 40 years so lets just let the insurance keep gouging and pay for our insured losses out of our own pockets!!!

[buykrux]

I have never understood why anyone would leave their clubs in the possession of the golf club when every course I have ever belonged to had the same sign stating they were not responsible for anything. Even when my clubs were worth almost nothing and I almost always played the same course I still took them home with me.

As for insurance, you are usually much better off eating a small loss like a set of clubs than filing a claim against your own insurance.

ever carry around a 40 pound staff bag and unload a cart every time you go play the same course your a member at day after day?

a small loss?
3 sets of irons, 3 drivers, 3 scotty camerons, 2 of which were brand new and bought last week, a 600$ limited editon callaway bag, skycaddie, rangefinders, ping BeCu irons, ipod, oakleys etc
go ahead and take that 8000 hit and go replace all that stuff yourself, there no one in this forum that has that kind of money lying around for golf clubs
or you can pay a deductable and get everything brand new
your choice
-

-

[lms]

If you can afford $8k worth of golf equipment, and you leave them essentially unattended in a place where no one is going to take responsibility for them, well then to me it is even more obvious that you should have taken your clubs home with you.

I am also guessing you have not dealt very much with insurance companies. Once you file a claim or two with your insurance company you will discover that over the next few years that your new rates, your loss of a discount for a claim free history, and/or cancellation of your policy were not worth the claim you filed. Insurance should only be used for major claims.

[1972Apex]

Those who are arguing that their rates should not go up etc. are living in a dream world. If you file a claim for a minor item your rates WILL go up. And over the future years you will pay far, far more in insurance rates due to your claim than you will ever recover.
BTW Copper Pings, depending on the model are worth 400 bucks in mint condition these days.... Most likely your insurance company will value them at 50% of their original purchase price (unless you paid extra for replacement value), which would be about 400-500 bucks.
All of this of course assumes your insurance company will actually pay you for clubs lost while in storage at a golf course... which in many cases they won't...
As for not being able to afford to replace them... puhleeze.... you bought them in the first place obviously...
Sorry to be so blunt but that is the reality of the situation. I am truly sorry for your loss.

[Kilroy]

As for not being able to afford to replace them... puhleeze.... you bought them in the first place obviously...

True, but I buy insurance so I don't have to do it twice unless I want to.

[1972Apex]

True, but I buy insurance so I don't have to do it twice unless I want to.

And do you pump up the value to $8000 of clubs in storage for your claim?

[Kilroy]

No. I think you know I would never do that. However if that were the value of the clubs stored, then I certainly would file a claim.

[tacks451]

wow and some of you people call yourselves golfers?Oh must be the usual high handicappers with walmart clubs!! read the type, just in my family we have 3 sets of quality equipment that was lost, so we aren't pumping up the value of anything, aren't golfers the players that are suppose to exude honesty and integrity for the game? However I read comments from so called fellow golfers decrying my efforts to replace my equipment as it stood on the rack after my weekend tournament prior to the unfortunate fire.

[buykrux]

apex maybe you should take a look in some other peoples bags
do a thorough check of what is in your own bag
go to the golftown website and price out EXACTLY how much everything in you bag will cost you
i mean everything, from tees and grips to gloves and ballmarkers
youd be surprised if you have half decent equipment

[justsomeguy]

True, but I buy insurance so I don't have to do it twice unless I want to.

You will have a very difficult time getting a mortgage without showing proof of property insurance. If you own your home, you really have no choice - and the insurance companies know it.

[Golfbum]

insurance companys are rip offs
my grandpa's been paying premiums for over 40 years and never filed a claim
now because of this his premiums going to go up for something that he is not responsible for what so ever
i can see a storm brewingggggg

Let me say something about your comments above.

Now you know why we pay insurance premiums. What if your home had burnt down? Do you think your money you spent on insurance would be a waste of money then? I somehow doubt you would.

Insurance companies pay out millions of dollars every year do to theft, fires, accidents etc etc.

Hey I am not pleased paying insurance premiums either. My issue with insurance is the honest people who rarely have claims pay the freight for people who are constantly scamming the insurance companies.

It is like the Health Tax the government put in place a few years ago. Let me say when I had a double by pass operation I sure got my Heath Tax back in buckets then.

If you wish to not pay the insurance companies then go ahead and do so. You are on your own.

As for the old Pings, sorry about your loss. But it happens. What about the guy with the classic mint 65 Mustang that some clown totaled when he ran a red light? Sure he will get his money for the loss but he can not likely replace it.

I have Amateur Radio equipment. I have a mint HF Radio that is over 20 years old. Mint condition and it operates like it did when it was new. Now if it was stolen or lost in a fire I would have it replaced with a new radio. However that is not the same as owning this nice old radio. Yes I can shop around and replace it with another radio that is exactly the same. Much like those old Pings can be replaced. Those irons are out there, we sold a set this year.

BTW if your Grandpa's rates are going to go up then he must have put in some claims before this. Most insurance companies will not up your rates if this is your first claim. If they do, you should not have been dealing with them in the first place.

[buykrux]

if its YOUR house that catches on fire because of a dummy move YOU did then sure, insurance should go up
if YOU get hit because someone ran a red, your rates should still come up because they do teach you to be prepared to break when coming up to a green light just in case
now lets say you had some over $25000 in old bills or jewelery in a safe box at the bank
for some odd reason, the bank catches fire, the fire spread to the safe boxes and burns/melts everything in the box that was yours
theres no way to tell what was in that box now and you file a claim for the value or to replace what was in the box
now you are trying to tell me that because you will have to now file a claim because the bank burnt down with your expensive valuables that your rates should go up? even if you have never filed a claim?
40 years with the insurance company, filed a claim that covered a new bumper and a bit of paint manyyyyyy years ago on an old truck when he was rear ended and now the cost and deductible is going to be threw the roof?
now you cannot tell me thats not right

as for the BeCu pings, its not the fact that there gone or the replacement value of them, its trying find him black dot becu's with the same aldila shafts he had in a similar condition

even my dad has to switch irons now because they do not make ZZ lites anymore with the eye2's

also i dont know about your clubs and their conditions, but all of these clubs were in a mint state
not a single sky mark on any wood or driver, no scratched faces or dented heads
so ya we may be able to get the same clubs, but they wont be the "same"
have you ever taken a look at loft angles on irons sets?
play with the same irons for 20 years like my dad and 10 like my grandpa then switch to a new set with different lofts and see how it messes up your game


back to insurance companies
you can say that insurance companies arent rip offs until you get shafted by a similar incident
how about your neighbors house catches fire and the fire spreads to yours, burning it to the ground
now you have nothing left, insurance company says "oh sorry about your loss but thats going to be $________ and your rates now increased 18% over 5 years"
you wouldnt be **?

[tacks451]

hahaha this is getting funny since some people have no idea what they talk about. All this chatter just because the club barn burnt down and we have to replace our clubs!!!

[kerisb]

Sorry for your losses anyone here that lost anything in that fire. I couldn't even imagine not having my golf clubs at this time of year!!!! And I do understand some things about insurance policies as I was on the innocent end of a car accident that put me off work for four months and wrote off my car. So I do know for a fact that some of these people will not get treated fairly (depending on your insurance companies probably). As for anyone out there renting.......please always get tennant insurance no matter what, alot of tennants I know figure they don't have a house to insure so they don't bother with insurance!! As for my clubs I would never leave them at a club (and yes I am a member at a club) only becaue if they are in the trunk of my car then I can play anywhere I go!!!

Again sorry for any losses to anyone here, what a horrible thing to happen to anyone!!

[lms]

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/ne...b-0a60d015009d

An interesting read.

[buykrux]

off to demo days at the club tomorrow

[1972Apex]

apex maybe you should take a look in some other peoples bags
do a thorough check of what is in your own bag
go to the golftown website and price out EXACTLY how much everything in you bag will cost you
i mean everything, from tees and grips to gloves and ballmarkers
youd be surprised if you have half decent equipment

Sorry for the late reply but I was driving back from Virginia...

Couple of things I want to point out.
A) I think I have a pretty good idea of what the clubs in my bag are worth
B) While if I priced them all out brand new with tax at Golftown they might be worth a few grand, I could replace them in a day off Ebay and various websites for a fraction of that.
C) Given the above, I would be a complete idiot to make a claim such as that with my insurance company and thereby possibly pay thousands of dollars in increased premiums over the next 10 years, plus potentially jeopardize my ability to obtain insurance in the future should I ever have even one other minor claim.
D) Mint condition means never been played. 20 year old copper Eye 2s which are in the club storage are obviously being used regularly and are no longer mint. Otherwise why would they be in club storage and not a display rack in your basement? Average selling price for Eye 2 coppers in used but very good condition on Ebay is well under 300 bucks. See the below link:
http://valueguide.pga.com/detail-exe...llium%20Copper
E) You had 3 sets of irons etc. in club storage?!! Were you playing all 3 regularly? If not, why were they all there and what club allows you that much space in their storage? Or were these 3 separate sets belonging to 3 people and therefore 3 separate insurance claims of under $3000 each? $3000 of clubs I can find used and in excellent condition for well under a grand.
I'm sorry, but an $8,000 claim from clubs in storage will have an insurance company claims investigator visiting you personally to investigate such a claim.
Call me a dink if you like but those are my honest opinions. I'm really sorry you lost your clubs but if you make an insurance claim for that amount you are eventually going to pay every penny of that $8,000 and more out to your insurance company.
If you want send me a list of what you have lost and I would be more than happy to help you find replacements at a reasonable cost.

[Big Johnny69]

hahaha this is getting funny since some people have no idea what they talk about. All this chatter just because the club barn burnt down and we have to replace our clubs!!!

The thing is Sakuraba does know what he's talking about. He works in the insurance industry.

[Big Johnny69]

Sorry for the late reply but I was driving back from Virginia...

Couple of things I want to point out.
A) I think I have a pretty good idea of what the clubs in my bag are worth
B) While if I priced them all out brand new with tax at Golftown they might be worth a few grand, I could replace them in a day off Ebay and various websites for a fraction of that.
C) Given the above, I would be a complete idiot to make a claim such as that with my insurance company and thereby possibly pay thousands of dollars in increased premiums over the next 10 years, plus potentially jeopardize my ability to obtain insurance in the future should I ever have even one other minor claim.
D) Mint condition means never been played. 20 year old copper Eye 2s which are in the club storage are obviously being used regularly and are no longer mint. Otherwise why would they be in club storage and not a display rack in your basement? Average selling price for Eye 2 coppers in used but very good condition on Ebay is well under 300 bucks. See the below link:
http://valueguide.pga.com/detail-exe...llium%20Copper
E) You had 3 sets of irons etc. in club storage?!! Were you playing all 3 regularly? If not, why were they all there and what club allows you that much space in their storage? Or were these 3 separate sets belonging to 3 people and therefore 3 separate insurance claims of under $3000 each? $3000 of clubs I can find used and in excellent condition for well under a grand.
I'm sorry, but an $8,000 claim from clubs in storage will have an insurance company claims investigator visiting you personally to investigate such a claim.
Call me a dink if you like but those are my honest opinions. I'm really sorry you lost your clubs but if you make an insurance claim for that amount you are eventually going to pay every penny of that $8,000 and more out to your insurance company.
If you want send me a list of what you have lost and I would be more than happy to help you find replacements at a reasonable cost.

Just to clarify, the three sets were one for the grandfather, one for the father (tacks) and one for the son (buykrux).

[justsomeguy]

I'm really sorry you lost your clubs but if you make an insurance claim for that amount you are eventually going to pay every penny of that $8,000 and more out to your insurance company.

I'm not really disagreeing with either Reid or Sakuraba - I'm just saying that its not right. I'm guessing that most people have already paid more than $8,000 in insurance premiums over the years before this fire happened. So you pay before, and then you pay again after - double-dipping at its finest!

If you want send me a list of what you have lost and I would be more than happy to help you find replacements at a reasonable cost.

Hey, someone had to pay the full retail price for my clubs before I got them!