Spike mark in your line of put

[mberube]

Can a fellow competitor tap down a spike mark in your line of put? I know that you can’t tap down the spike mark from your own line but I was told yesterday that if you say something in regards of a spike mark in your line, your fellow competitor can walk up and tap it down for you without penalty. Supposedly a conmen practice on Tour. I have a hard time believing that.

Comments?

TY
Mike

[jvincent]

You can't ask your FC to fix it for you.

If he fixes it after he has holed out that is OK.

[mberube]

That’s what he said. So if I hint that there is a spike mark, not asking him to fix it, he can then come and see and then tap it even if he is done with the hole in play? He can’t tap it if his ball is still in play?

Mike

[Kilroy]

Supposedly a conmen practice on Tour. I have a hard time believing that.

Realy???? I have never seen it happen, and you'd think it would be caught on camera.

The rule does not specify who may not touch the line. It simply states that it may not be touched.

The line of putt must not be touched except:
(i) the player may remove loose impediments, provided he does not press anything down;
(ii) the player may place the club in front of the ball when addressing it, provided he does not press anything down;
(iii) in measuring - Rule 18-6;
(iv) in lifting or replacing the ball - Rule 16-1b;
(v) in pressing down a ball-marker;
(vi) in repairing old hole plugs or ball marks on the putting green - Rule 16-1c; and
(vii) in removing movable obstructions - Rule 24-1.
(Indicating line for putting on putting green - see Rule 8-2b.)

IF the FC were allowed to touch the line it would be listed in the exceptions. The things the player can do are listed.

Sounds like someone wanted to fix a spike mark and thought he'd found a loophole. Then claimed the tour players do it. Nice try, but no cigar.

Where were you playing that still allows spikes?

[jvincent]

That’s what he said. So if I hint that there is a spike mark, not asking him to fix it, he can then come and see and then tap it even if he is done with the hole in play? He can’t tap it if his ball is still in play?

Slippery slope there. If you "hint" that would most likely (and correctly so IMHO) be interpreted as asking.

[jvincent]

Realy???? I have never seen it happen, and you'd think it would be caught on camera.

I've seen plenty of guys on tour tap down spike marks after they have finished holing out.

I don't think the line of putt rule applies to a FC who has already holed out.

[justsomeguy]

IF the FC were allowed to touch the line it would be listed in the exceptions. The things the player can do are listed.

Not necessarily, since the definition of "line of putt" refers to "the line that the player wishes his ball to take". It is player-specific - your line of putt is not the same as my line of putt - so if you touch my line of putt you are not necessarily breaching a rule of golf.

[Kilroy]

Point taken. I am not entirely sure I agree with the view that doing such a favour for an FC is within the rules.

What about having your partner tapping down several spike marks on your line?

At very least fixing a spike mark on another players line after he hints is conspiring to circumvent the rules.

[jvincent]

Generally a partner/caddie is subject to the same restrictions as the player so I would think a partner would be prohibited.

From what I have seen on the telecasts, the players all do it as a matter of course after they have holed out, so I think this is one of those unwritten things that the pros do.

[justsomeguy]

I found a few decisions that would seem to apply here:

13-2/36 Competitor Sanctions Repair of Spike Damage on His Line of Putt by Fellow-Competitor
Q. If a fellow-competitor purposely improves the competitor’s line of putt by repairing spike damage, the fellow-competitor is penalized under Rule 1-2. If the fellow-competitor’s action is sanctioned, tacitly or otherwise, by the competitor, is the competitor also subject to penalty?
A. Yes, under Rule 13-2, for allowing his line of play to be improved.


1-2/3.5 Player Repairs Hole After Holing Out But Before Opponent, Fellow-Competitor or Partner Holes Out Q. After holing out, a player observes that the edge of the hole is ragged. He pats the ragged edge with his hand and smoothes it. Does the player incur a penalty under Rule 1-2 if his opponent, fellow-competitor or partner has not holed out?
A. If the player smoothed the edge of the hole as a courtesy to following players, which seems likely, there is no penalty under Rule 1-2. However, he incurs a penalty under Rule 1-2 if he smoothed the edge of the hole for the express purpose of influencing the movement of the opponent’s, fellow-competitor’s or partner’s ball.
Since the player had holed out, he is not subject to penalty under Rule 16-1a.
If a four-ball competition was involved and the player’s partner had not completed the hole, the partner is subject to penalty under Rule 16-1a — See Definition of “Partner.”



1-3/3 Player and Opponent or Fellow-Competitor Agree to Repair Spike Marks on One Another’s Line of Putt
Q. A player and his opponent or fellow-competitor agree that they will repair spike marks on one another’s line of putt. Is this a breach of Rule 1-3?
A. Yes. Both would be subject to disqualification for agreeing to waive Rule 16-1a (Touching Line of Putt).

It would seem to me that if you decide to repair general damage around the hole after you hole out (including spike marks), then you're fine. If you start to venture out from there to fix spike marks or start asking for help, you will be penalized.

[Kilroy]

Good work finding that. Next time I'll be more diligent in my searches before trying to make a ruling.

Generally a partner/caddie is subject to the same restrictions as the player so I would think a partner would be prohibited.

Correct.

[justsomeguy]

Good work finding that. Next time I'll be more diligent in my searches before trying to make a ruling.

Dan, I remember a wise, old rules official once stating on this site that the answers to most rules questions can be found in the Definitions.

Competitor
A "competitor" is a player in a stroke-play competition. A "fellow-competitor" is any person with whom the competitor plays. Neither is partner of the other.

I have also seen tour players fixing spike marks - but I believe it almost always happens after everybody in the group has holed out.

[Hacker]

I distinctly remember Tiger "tapping down" spike marks that were in his line after he misses the putt...........granted this would be HIS line and not the line of an FC and he has already holed out before doing it

[Kilroy]

We have all seen that by many players. I was just saying that I hadn't seen them doing it for others as described.

[Hacker]

We have all seen that by many players. I was just saying that I hadn't seen them doing it for others as described.

Agreed - but it begs the question....what if players who are doing this unintentionally improve the putting line of their FC

It would seem plausible, especially for spike marks close to the hole.

I never really understood this rule anyway. I can fix old ball marks, but not spike marks

[Kilroy]

Thankfully with soft spikes everywhere (except on tour) it seems to be a non-issue for most of us.

[Hacker]

Thankfully with soft spikes everywhere (except on tour) it seems to be a non-issue for most of us.

Good point and leads to another question......

[Kiwi battler]

How about a spike mark made by a fellow competitor ? on your line and after your ball had come to rest
Isnt mentioned in the exceptions , but I vaugly recall that thats another thing you can repair in/on your line

[AAA]

See Dec 13-2/8.5 A player is entitled to the lie and line of play he had when his ball came to rest.

In equity the same would apply