Oh so close...

[LobWedge]

Tiger Wie comes within 1 stroke of making history. Great theater.

[natgolfer]

Tiger Wie comes within 1 stroke of making history. Great theater.

C'mon. This bratty kid does not belong on the PGA Tour, 'cause she is only a 14 year old girl, and the Tour is for real men.

The only men of importance that she tied or beat were: Jim Furyk- US Open Champion, Stuart Appelby-last week's Mercedes Champion, Chad Campbell-World Golf Championship winner, Darren Clarke-World Golf championship winner, Kenny Perry-multiple PGA Tour winner, Ben Curtis-British Open winner, Scott Hoch, Steve Flesch, Adam Scott, Jeff Sluman, Jeff Maggert, all many time Tour winners, and dozens of others.

This kid needs to go back to grade 9 where she belongs and work on solving simutaneous equations instead, and writing Haiku, because that is where her future lies.

Seriously, Michelle's performance was fantastic and is an indicator of many wonderful things to come. With maturity and steady improvement, we could eventually see her dominate the Ladies Tour more than TW has dominated the mens'.

One of the more vociferous opponents of Michelle playing in the Sony was John Cook, whom she beat. Well John, Hawaiian Punch at 6:00, BBQ'd Crow at 7:00.

[mpare]

My predictions: Michelle Wie

will be the first woman to play the PGA Tour as a regular member and
will be the first woman to play in the Masters.

I just love watching her play - what a swing and what composure.

[NoBack]

Actually, I couldnt be happier. I for one am tired of seeing the women play on the men's tours. I am not sexist by any means. I would rather watch them play against each other as I have for many years now.
I just think that there are two Tours for a reason. Just like the men's bobsled team and the womens bobsled team, the womens hockey team and the mens hockey team. A ladies baseball team does not allow men to play on it, just as a ladies soccer team does not allow men on it. They (TV Networks) are going to kill the LPGA for every other women golfer who has her eyes set on professional golf.
I have two daughters and to tell them they will have to play against the men in the future kinda sucks. And to tell them it was because someone had the idea they could make a little extra money and that it killed the ladies tour seems to be a real let down. :shake

Let me ask the regular viewers of the PGA tour............ would you have still watched the golf IF Michelle Wei was NOT playing this weekend??? My answer would be a definate YES. She made no difference in my decision to watch it.

I just want to add that Michelle Wei is a great golfer and I dont want to take anything away from her abilities as a golfer, she is doing what she loves to do and because she had no exams this week was allowed to play. Wonder if she did her homework before her round.

[LobWedge]

Steve, I agree that the LPGA is suffering, but not at th expense of players like Sorenstam, Wie and Whaley. They're sufering because of the likes of Commissioner Votaw running the tour like it's a modeling agency and openly having affairs with players (Gustafson). He and his so called policy makers are doing way more damage than anyone else.

You can't compare golf to those other team sports. Golf is about the player against the course. Thats's like saying that a woman can't play Kasparov for the world chess title because her brain isn't good enough. Every player has to play, qualify and compete under the same conditions. The tour would be commiting suicide if it ever even considered different conditions for female players.

The fact that you watched the tournament regardless of who was playing shows that you are a true golf fan. That's the way it should be.

I would think that if your girl's game's develop to the point where they would be competitive against the men that they should be offered that choice by the golfing community. That's what equality is all about.

[mpare]

Let me offer a differing opinion. I did watch more of the tournament because Michelle Wie was playing. Now, anyone who knows me is aware that I will watch golf most anytime. That said, I was particularly interested in seeing her play. Why? Because she holds such potential and, more than that, because that potential is manifesting itself right now. As for women playing of the PGA tour as regular members, I say go for it. I see that tour as the venue for the best players in world, regardless of their race, religion or sex. My suspicion is that she will play both tours, much to the benefit of both. Let me add for the benefit of those who would say "Well, then, men should be permitted to play on the women's tour", that the two are not the same. The women's tour is just that - a women's tour. The reason for that restriction should be obvious. The PGA tour correctly and by contrast is THE tour for the best players in the world. It is not restricted to men. I for one can't wait for the day (hopefully after she has completed her schooling - but that is another subject) when she makes her way there.

[Colby]

Steve,

I have to agree and disagree with you.

It's not the men's tour. It's for the best golfers in the world to compete at tthe highest level. Nothing in th tour's bylaws says you have to be a man to compete.

Michelle had some help this weekend. She knows the course and has played it alot. She also spent a lot of time sinking some long putts for par. However, she made those clutch putts. And as mentioned in a previous post, she scored lower than a lot of very good golfers including last years US Open Champion. She played from the same tee boxes as the men, and she played under more pressure than a lot of the other golfers who were out there, some who made the cut and some who didn't.

A woman playing in a PGA event is still big news, especially one who managed to compete, and almost made the cut. Something that she never came close to in her tournaments on the Nationwide and Canadian (I think) tours. As time goes on, if she proves she can compete on the PGA Tour, then all the strength to her. After some time of playing on the Tour, the TV cameras will grow used to it, and she will just be another player. Or not. The Tour could jump in spectators, mostly females probably but maybe some young males , and revenues could increase like they've seen because of Tiger.

What this will do to the LPGA? That we will have to see over time. Annika has dominated the LPGA over the last couple of seasons. She says she can't compete with the men. If Annika says she can't compete, whats that say about the others? Se Ri Pak might be able to compete on the Asian Tour, but I think the culteral differences there might be hard to overcome. But with almost all of the golfers currently on the LPGA tour being in no shape or form able to compete on the PGA Tour, I think it will continue to be around in some manner.

But be honest. If it wasn't for the TV coverage, and she wasn't playing as an amatuer, but really trying to win money to be in the top 25, would it matter if Michelle Wie or Guy Boros was playing in the event.

My $0.02

[NoBack]

Every player has to play, qualify and compete under the same conditions.

Did she do this??? I dont think she worked her way through Q-School like the rest of the field had to, or gotten her exemption for any other reason the $$$$ for the networks and Sony.

It's for the best golfers in the world to compete at tthe highest level. Nothing in th tour's bylaws says you have to be a man to compete.

OK I can agree with this IF she qualified like the rest but she didnt and the there was only one who did last year for that matter. (was it Whaley who played in a tournament and qualified for the tournament she played in?)

[LobWedge]

Did she do this??? I dont think she worked her way through Q-School like the rest of the field had to, or gotten her exemption for any other reason the $$$$ for the networks and Sony.



OK I can agree with this IF she qualified like the rest but she didnt and the there was only one who did last year for that matter. (was it Whaley who played in a tournament and qualified for the tournament she played in?)

You're right about the sponsor's exemption, but the men get those too. My point is that women shouln't be excluded because of gender. If Michelle Wie decides to take a run at the men's tour by qualifying, more power to her.

I have a feeling that her genetics might work against her anyway. If she's 6 feet tall now she'll probably be too tall/big to be an effective competitor when she matures. But never say never.

p.s. Suzy Whaley qualified for The Colonial tournament, but there's an asterisk there too. She won the regional qualifier playing from the forward tees. :shake

[Colby]

Maybe the big issue is the exemptions that the sponsors have to hand out to whoever they please. And there is always half a dozen or so that are given out. Usually they are given out to pros with no Tour exemption, but sometimes they are handed out to improve the ratings, crowd draw, publicity of the tour event or some other self-serving interest.

And that bring around the fact that the PGA Tour is a business. Is it a sport? You could make a case for that, but first and foremost it's a business. The PGA Tour, for the most part, controls broadcast rights, photo rights, and they dictate who can play. They need the sponsors to keep the prize money high so that the real good players don't wander off and play nothing but exhibitions the rest of their lives. With that comes the "evil" of sponsor exemptions. The sponsors are laying out millions for their event, and the PGA coddles up to these guys in order to keep their sponsorship. There have been numerous tournaments that have folded due to sponsors not wishing to continue. The Air Canada Classic in Vancouver is one.

The true sport of golf, in my opinion, is the various amateur championships that take place. These golfers are exceptional, and they are playing for the love of the sport, and hopefully a chance to get on the Tour and make some big money.

Let's not lose ight of the fact that this is a money making enterprise, and the money comes from sponsors and TV contracts. The more people that watch, the more the sponsors kick in, the more $$$ the TV contracts are worth. Ask any tournament organizer that knows Tiger won't be playing in his tournament, how much would it be worth for them to have Tiger playing...

[Farzin]

The true sport of golf, in my opinion, is the various amateur championships that take place. ..

ie: OGT
just a confirmation.

[Colby]

ie: OGT
just a confirmation.

Please...

That's a bunch of guys having a good time. Watch the US Amateur or some college golf.

[Kilroy]

He's still waiting for the sponsors to call.

[Colby]

He's still waiting for the sponsors to call.

That is waaaaaaaaay too funny

[mpare]

A little history might provide a useful backdrop for this discussion. There were no complaints, that I can recall, when two male amateurs played in PGA tour events years back. Specifically, I am referring to Phil Mickelson in 1991 and Scott Verplank in 1985. Oh, did I mention that Phil won the Northern Telecom Open and that Scott won the Western Open in those years as amateurs. The bottom line is that for years amateurs have been getting into PGA tournaments as invitees or otherwise. This well-established practice will continue. To complain solely about women getting into such events in this way is disingenuous. The sponsors have as much right to invite them as they have to invite male competitors.

[Colby]

... disingenuous.

Easy there. You'll have guys pulling their dictionaries out of storage!

[Kilroy]

You are right mpare, but do they follow all the players on sponsors exemptions through every shot? As I said before, I for one have no problem with anyone playing, but the coverage is too slanted towards ratings over sport. However, I am not unaware that the sponsors pay the bills, so they do call the "shots" ( at least for the cameras, not the golf )

Michelle may just have enough game to keep up with the best players in the world, but geez, let her grow up before throwing her to the lions. One of my daughters is 14, and I just cannot imagine it. Kids should get to be kids before they are stars. People can get seriously screwed up. Michael Jackson

[Kilroy]

Easy there. You'll have guys pulling their dictionaries out of storage!

dis·in·gen·u·ous [ dìssin jénnyoo ss ]adjective

1. withholding information: withholding or not taking account of known information

2. not genuinely sincere: giving a false impression of sincerity or simplicity

[Colby]

dis·in·gen·u·ous [ dìssin jénnyoo ss ]adjective

1. withholding information: withholding or not taking account of known information

2. not genuinely sincere: giving a false impression of sincerity or simplicity

sar·casm (särkzm)
n.

1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
3. The use of sarcasm.

[Farzin]

disingenuous:
Could this be it?

He's still waiting for the sponsors to call.

[Kilroy]

Good one!

[mpare]

This is more fun than the movies and a lot cheaper.

[Farzin]

Big Weizee on the gentlemen only ladies forbidden game has beaten 47 pros. This is a good thing for the tour. It makes some of the pros either sack their balls and be forced to leave the tour, play LPGA or play better golf. There is no excuses for like of US open champion or other 47 players to get beaten by a 14 year old phenom while they collect millions of dollars in prize money or endorsement. It's just a reminder to those who take it as granted their privileges in PGA tour. There are more players out there that can play PGA and be competitive provided that they have the opportunity. That's only possible by granting sponsorship to unknown players like Michelle Wei and of course OGT champion. Alas He's still waiting for the sponsors to call.

[mpare]

... Alas He's still waiting for the sponsors to call.

Perhaps the call would come more quickly if he donned a dress. Now that would be amusing.

[natgolfer]

I just want to add that Michelle Wei is a great golfer and I dont want to take anything away from her abilities as a golfer, No? But you are glad that she missed the cut. Actually, I couldnt be happier If a 14 year old male phenom(aka Tiger woods) was given the exemption, instead of Michelle, would you think differently?

They're (LPGA) suffering because of the likes of Commissioner Votaw running the tour like it's a modeling agency and openly having affairs with players (Gustafson). I thought only women gossiped like this. If a married man, living with his wife, is dinking another woman, he is having an affair. If both people are single, divorced, or separated, and get together, they are having a relationship. With what other players has Votaw had affairs?("having affairs with players") Holy Smokes!! BTW: The LPGA is suffering because too many men do not support ladies golf, which while very good, is understandbly not the same calibre as the mens. Logically then, sponsors who want a bigger bang for their buck, shy away from the ladies. I don't like Ping equipment, but I admire and respect them for their unwavering support of ladies golf.

It's not the men's tour. It's for the best golfers in the world to compete at tthe highest level. Nothing in th tour's bylaws says you have to be a man to compete. Aha! A voice of reason.

Every player has to play, qualify and compete under the same conditions. Not so. The sponsors are permitted to exempt the normal qualifying for a handful each week. Are you aware that your buddy Tiger Woods never qualified for the PGA Tour(through Q-School like the rest of the field had to,) Tiger received sponsors' exemptions, just like Michelle did, and won enough money in these to get into the top 125, but he NEVER, went to Q school. Hank Kuehne did the same last year and is now fully exempt. Yes. I know they're guys.

My point is that women shouln't be excluded because of gender. If Michelle Wie decides to take a run at the men's tour by qualifying, more power to her. You follow something so reasonable, with this nonsense!! I have a feeling that her genetics might work against her anyway. If she's 6 feet tall now she'll probably be too tall/big to be an effective competitor when she matures.
You are joking, aren't you?

While Michelle would go broke if she were to play the Tour regularly, she deserved and got a chance to show how good she really is. It's time now for her to further develop her game and her confidence, and as Tiger suggested, that she learns how to win, how to handle the pressure of continually being in contention, first at the top amateur level, in the 6 LPGA tournaments a year in which she can play, and the odd Tour event. Perhaps her biggest drawback will not be her height (unbelievable) but her father. Now that Tiger has flown the coup, maybe if Earl Woods were to adopt her, she would have a better chance to develop the mental maturity necessary to be successful at the highest level of golf.

It's still astonishes me that sexism and chauvinism is still so prevalent. Give the kid a freakin' break!

[LobWedge]

Natgolfer, let me expand a bit on these points for clarity. (remember I'm in favour of the women being able to play with the men if they can compete)

They're (LPGA) suffering because of the likes of Commissioner Votaw running the tour like it's a modeling agency and openly having affairs with players (Gustafson).

1. LPGA commissioner Ty Votaw is dating LPGA player Sophie Gustafson, and while there may be absolutely nothing wrong with that relationship under normal circumstances, consider this hypothetical. Say that your immediate supervisor at your place of employment is dating a co-worker that she also supervises. There may be absolutely nothing untoward about the relationship, but even the perception of a conflict of interest can be very damaging.

2. The LPGA tour has openly suggested that the "better lookiing" players consider dressing in tighter fitting clothing to enhance visual interest. I don't even need to say how much this trivializes women.

Every player has to play, qualify and compete under the same conditions.

As far as Tiger and the sponsor exemption thing goes, he and the other stars would still be dominating the tour even if those exemptions had never existed in the first place. The fact is that 99% of the players on tour either need to catch lightning in a bottle or face the Q School grind on a fairly regular basis.

I have a feeling that her genetics might work against her anyway. If she's 6 feet tall now she'll probably be too tall/big to be an effective competitor when she matures.

Studies have been done regarding body type, size, height, etc., and how these can effect a golfer's performance. The taller you are, the harder it is to control your swing plane, arc and timing. Strength helps a lot (Woods, Els, Singh, Love III) but these are exceptions to the rule. It's just physics. And remember. I also said never say never. I hope she proves me wrong.

[RailRoad17]

Now that Michelle Wie has missed the cut, bye bye Sony Open. The only thing I care about the tournament is for my guys in the pool to perform well.

[McGavin]

I should have put this here!!

I would have to agree with Natgolfer. Sponsors exemptions have been around forever and have frequently been given to golfers who had no realistic shot at winning. Its only now that they have been given to 2 women that it has become a big deal.

I am a huge golf fan and I would have watched regardless but it would have been far less interesting without Michelle Wie. Here is a 14 year old girl who came within a shot of making the cut at a PGA tour event. She is a phenom, and we were very close to witnessing a great achievement, an achievement that would have made golf history... does no one see this??? Would you have rather been watching Stephen Allan and Jerry Kelly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andru


She's a unbelievable talent. Though I believe she has more size than game. She's hits it long but there are junior girls with better all around games.



Name a few....

I have a feeling that her genetics might work against her anyway. If she's 6 feet tall now she'll probably be too tall/big to be an effective competitor when she matures.

Studies have been done regarding body type, size, height, etc., and how these can effect a golfer's performance. The taller you are, the harder it is to control your swing plane, arc and timing. Strength helps a lot (Woods, Els, Singh, Love III) but these are exceptions to the rule. It's just physics. And remember. I also said never say never. I hope she proves me wrong.

Unbelievable! Woods, Els, Singh and Love are exceptions.... do you realize you just named the top four golfers in the world??? They don't look like exceptions to the rule they look like they are the rule!!!

Golf itself has always been a sport where exclusion has been accepted and tolerated and a far higher level than other sports. I think the opinions of this forum show that not much has changed...

[LobWedge]

Hey McGavin, I don't know which forum you were reading but with the exception of 1 of the previous 27 posts, they are all in support of inclusion. You may want to read them again.

[McGavin]

Hey McGavin, I don't know which forum you were reading but with the exception of 1 of the previous 27 posts, they are all in support of inclusion. You may want to read them again.

The forum is the entire message board.... I would not have written what I did based on the posts in this thread. However if you read the previous thread as well as :

http://www.ottawagolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2287

you might see what I am referring to.