New shaft for GBB 2 - any suggestions?

[Rusty]

Hi;

My brother in law gave me his broken Calaway Great Big Bertha 2 driver for Christmas. He snapped the shaft, he wouldn't say how, and I had admired it when I played with him this fall.
Anyway it has a RCH Pro Series 5.2, he loved the shaft, but he hits the ball 270-290 and I only hit 240 on my good days(I have a fairly smooth tempo). Should I just send it to Callaway and ask for it to be reshafted with the same shaft?
I am very happy with my Callaway 3 wood that has the yellow and purple UST 65 regular flex, would this be a good match for the GBB 2? Has anyone else had success with reshafting a GBB 2, and who did it for them? I understand that some people on the forum are club builders, any ideas?
I have been playing for 3 years now and am looking forward to this next summer to really kick it up a notch.

Thanks

Russ Porter
Rusty

[el tigre]

Rusty:

My advice is to go to Chuck Brown's with the head and the broken shaft and have it sent back to Callaway for replacement. Callaway's customer service is second to none, and IMHO chances are good to excellent that they will replace the shaft at no charge. I have had two shafts replaced by Callaway (driver + 3-wood) with no questions asked, so it is very likely that they will do the same for you. You can then decide if you like the original or not.

[Chieflongtee]

If el tigre's advice does not work I have a Callaway RCH 96 regular flex sitting in my garage. It is already tipped for a bore thru head. Good luck. André.

[rockford35]

Russ,

I picked up a pretty much new GBBII on E-bay a few weeks before X-mas for a steal-of-a-deal (sub 200CDN) with the Tour Stiff shaft in it. I was suprised to find that the "stiff" shaft in the GBBII was alot more flexable than my existing Hawk Eye VFT Tour series stiff shat.

This prompted me to do a little research. I sent out about 16-18 e-mails to many golf component groups to get both their input, as well as the tendancy of orders for such a request for the GBBII. I recieved over a dozen replies with all but one stating that by far, the Grafalloy Blue was the shaft to get for this head.

Granted, I stated within my e-mails my specifics that i wanted for ball flight, roll, the degree of loft, ect for my golf game, which, of course would make an impact. But when all said and done, many people came back to me with this.

I put in my order just after X-mas for my Blue shaft, stiff flex. I can't wait to put it together!

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

rockford35

(But I do agree, that Callaway does have phenomenal customer service. See what they can do for you. I've had nothing but fantastic help and feedback from them! Cheers!)

[Rusty]

Thanks for the suggestions, I dropped it off at Chuck Browns and Callaway put a new series 60 firm shaft in it for only 75.00. Even got them to throw on a V50 full cord just like the rest of my clubs.

Again Thanks

Russ Porter

Hi;

My brother in law gave me his broken Calaway Great Big Bertha 2 driver for Christmas. He snapped the shaft, he wouldn't say how, and I had admired it when I played with him this fall.
Anyway it has a RCH Pro Series 5.2, he loved the shaft, but he hits the ball 270-290 and I only hit 240 on my good days(I have a fairly smooth tempo). Should I just send it to Callaway and ask for it to be reshafted with the same shaft?
I am very happy with my Callaway 3 wood that has the yellow and purple UST 65 regular flex, would this be a good match for the GBB 2? Has anyone else had success with reshafting a GBB 2, and who did it for them? I understand that some people on the forum are club builders, any ideas?
I have been playing for 3 years now and am looking forward to this next summer to really kick it up a notch.

Thanks

Russ Porter
Rusty

[haribo]

Too bad i saw this thread too late. In my opinion Callaway stock shafts are pretty crappy shafts. I would have suggested to send it back to Callaway but ask them to replace it with a Fujikura shaft (SIX, 661 or 757 ...). Fujikura shafts are absolute awesome shafts and Callaway offers an upgrade to these kind of shafts for an additional $60 (something like that). That's a pretty good deal for a shaft that goes for $200 US commonly!!!!!!!

haribo

[Chieflongtee]

A crappy shaft can be turned into a supershaft if lined up properly. Mercury shafts are excellent shafts and you can get them for a lot cheaper.
www.mercurygolf.com

[haribo]

A crappy shaft can be turned into a supershaft if lined up properly. Mercury shafts are excellent shafts and you can get them for a lot cheaper.
www.mercurygolf.com

Sure, that's why you see so many OEM stock shafts being used by PGA Tour player's. Right.
I don't know mercury shafts but I don't think they can compete with a Fujikura. There's a reason why Fuji's are the most used shafts on Tour. And they don't pay a dime to a Tour player for using them.

Re: properly lined up. Well, spining/flowing makes a shaft perform better. Granted. But look at the bigger picture. Every graphite shaft has 3 spines, one being dominant. You got to align that properly to get the most out of the shaft. Fujikura on the other hand, has also 3 spines. BUT the quality is so high that there is no such a thing as a dominant spine.
Another thing is consistency. Take for instance a well known shaft like the True Temper EI-70. Take 100 of them and try to find 10 shafts that are absolute identical in specs. Truth is, you will have a hard time to find even 5 out of 100. Now, take 100 Fujikura SIX. or 757 or any other Fuji for that matter. Out of 100 you will have 100 identical shafts. That's how high the quality standars are. Period. That's one of the reason Fujis are so popular on the PGA. These guys change clubs like we change underwear. They demand consistency from a shaft.

But all that was actually not the point I tried to make originally. All I said was that Callaway offers for a few bucks more an awesome upgrade to a shaft that costs aftermarket regularly 3 times as much. Most people just don't know about it.

haribo

[Chieflongtee]

Sorry. Three spines. You've got to be kidding me. There is one spine and one neutral bend point in any shaft graphite or steel. The best shafts have very litlle stiffness differential between the S plane and the N plane. i.e one or 2 cpm.(Sk Fiber, Mercury) Read the following tech note if you don't want to take it from me.Regarding Mercury shafts how come no company out there out is taking their $10,000 challenge. As far as the tour that's another story. If one guy wins one tournament using(i.e one of the big ones)whatever shaft or clubs the endorsing company will be making big bucks in the following months. I'd like to test your shafts in my frequency analyser. If you'd like I can post many articles from the spinetalkers forum or the Neufinder's forum that will back up my claim regarding spines and NBPs
I got the following from the following web site:
http://www.csfa.com/


Wobble

NOTE 3: If you get into the hairiest of mathematics you'll find any shaft has two natural frequencies and they are always located 90 degrees apart on the shaft. At one point you will get one of these frequencies and by rotating the shaft 90 degrees you'll get the other. If the shaft is flexed anywhere in between both frequencies will be excited and the two will beat against one another causing the shaft to wobble. The two frequencies in a steel shaft or a filament wound graphite shaft are generally very close such that very little wobble will occur. In wrapped graphite shafts this is not always the case due to the seam and wobbling can be pretty wild. I've seen as much as 12-cpm difference between these two frequencies in some shafts. If a shaft is regular along one axis and stiff along the other how do you install it in the club? It's best to buy good shafts. Again the frequency analyzer is a great quality control device. By the way, that vibratory gyro I mentioned in an earlier Tech Note had its two natural frequencies matched to a small fraction of a part per trillion. Like I said it wasn't a cheap device.

[haribo]

You're wondering why nobody is taking their challange? Don't know ... maybe because nobody cares. 10 grant is for companies like Fujikura, Aldila, True temper etc. etc. nothing but pocket change. So, why bother.

The pro's don't seem to care either by the way because they're playing Fuji's and don't even get paid a cent for doing so. (quite a novelty concept in our time with all the tee-up money companies are paying the pros's ... btw, I know a pro who managed to qualify 2 years ago for the Canadian Open, he got paid 10.000 for wearing this hat or using that driver before he played his first shot on Thursday morning.) Why? Because Fuji's won more tournaments, read won the pro's more money, in the last while than any other brand.

Anyway, what I told you is common knowledge in the online golf equipment community. If you don't believe me do some reading on www.4gea.com (they are probably the best to talk about spining, flowing and that kinda stuff since they are very much into clubmaking and components), or www.bombsquadgolf.com (everything you want to know about Fujikura shafts you'll find there).

haribo

[Chieflongtee]

Find me the thread where it says 3 spines. Spinetalker's forum is where the best "spiners" hang out. I take their word cause most of them are professional clubmakers/structural engineers. You'll also read plenty about spines on the FGI forum. But I learned over the years not to believe everything I read. I have my sources and I'll trust their judgment/expertise/knowledge before I believe anybody else. Sounds like you'd make a good rep for them though.

[Chieflongtee]

Haribo. Forgot to say welcome to the Ottawa Golf forum.

[haribo]

Just copied this from www.clubmaker-online.com. I could/should have been more specific but still I rest my case.

SPINE FINDING AND WHAT TO DO WITH THEM AFTER YOU FIND THEM

by Bill Day
Golf Equipment Professional
PCS "Class A" Clubmaker
GCA Advanced Professional Clubmaker


WHAT ARE SPINES?
Spines exist in all golf shafts regardless of material (steel, titanium, graphite, etc.) and regardless of manufacturing process (extruded, welded, sheet wrapped, filament wound, etc.) A Spine can be visualized as a longitudinal line or plane on a golf shaft that is more resistant to bending than any other line or plane. In the extreme case, the shaft can be considered as unsymmetrical as a yardstick with the narrow width representing the spine and the wide width representing a more flexible plane. In one direction the yardstick bends easily; in the other it is difficult to bend and may break.

In February 1999 the USGA Implements and Ball Committee modified its rule on golf shafts which required that they "bend symmetrically in all directions". The reason for the change is that it was proven to them that today's technology would not support manufacturing of a shaft with these "symmetrical properties" without raising prices to unrealistic levels. The USGA concluded that it would "not be against the rule" for club (and shaft) manufacturers to "orient

the shaft in the clubhead such that the shaft appeared to bend symmetrically in all directions".
Thanks to Dick Weiss, the patent owner for spine finding and orientation, the golf club industry now has a new method for golf club improvement that, in conjunction with frequency matching, can provide the most consistent golf clubs ever built.


HOW DO YOU FIND A SPINE?

The butt of the golf shaft is placed in a "holder" of some type (Spine Finder) which allows the golf shaft to be "loaded" or bent, and at the same time allows the shaft to rotate freely. When the shaft is rotated, the resistance to the force bending the shaft varies throughout 360 degrees rotation. When a "strong point" or "spine" is approached, the shaft becomes unstable and wants to rotate "away" from the spine. Where does it go? It rotates to the nearest "valley" which is a position of stability (also called the "Neutral Bending Position" or NBP). There are simple instruments called "spinefinders" that are used hold the shaft in position, while loading the shaft and rotating it to to locate the spines and NBPs. (Spinefinding devices range in price from under $50.00 to $2500.00 or more. The lower priced model I have does the job well, and detects all spines and valleys (NBPs).

Golfsmith International Inc., under license from Dick Weiss, the patent holder, provides a spine finding and shaft orientation marking service. Their machine for doing this is a much more expensive, computer controlled machine designed for accurate identification marking and high volume use compared to the simple manually operated "spinefinders".


COMMON TYPES OF SHAFT SPINES

There are two major types of shafts identifiable by their spine complement. Note that a "perfect" shaft would bend equally in all directions and have no detectable spines or NBPs.

Type 1: S-180-N This is a very common type shaft and is usually one made of steel,
Titanium, or some other alloy or metal matrix. Some graphite shafts also exhibit this
characteristic. The terminology "S-180-N" indicates that there is a Spine located 180 degrees in circumference from a NBP.

Type 2: S1-180-S2, N1-180-N2 This type of shaft and spine pattern is almost always some type of graphite shaft, either sheet wrapped or filament wound. The spine pattern indicated is that the prominent spine (S1) is located 180 degrees from (S2) which is a spine of lesser magnitude. The NBPs are also noted as (N1) more prominent than (N2) and also 180 degrees away from each other. In addition the spines are located 90 degrees from the NBPs, so that a complete spine description could read "S1-90-N1-90-S2-90-N2-90" for a full 360 degree circumference notation.

Type 3: Other This is a "catch-all" category that includes anything other than Type 1 or Type 2 shafts. There are some shafts that may have three sets of spines and NBPs. Others may have a noticeable NBP but no real prominent spine. This includes some new patterns S1-120-N1-120-S2 and N1-120-S1-120-N2 (these are really strange).

SHAFT ORIENTATION IN A CLUB HEAD

By properly orienting the shaft in a clubhead, the maximum performance of the golf club can be obtained. This statement assumes that the golf club assembly has been designed by the Clubmaker to obtain the proper swingweight, length, and frequency (stiffness) at the specific shaft orientation prior to final assembly of the golf club. In essence, the club will perform as if the shaft had symmetrical bending properties in all directions.

When specific orientations are discussed, a clock face is used for descriptive purposes with the "toe" of the club at the 12 o'clock position for a right handed golfer. The swing plane will be from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock, with the ball setting at the 9 o'clock position.

Type 1 shaft: There are two optional orientations available. S - 9 o'clock, N - 3-o'clock and the opposite with S at 3 o'clock and N at 9 o'clock. Testing information to date indicates that the S - 9 o'clock position offers slightly more accuracy while S - 3 o'clock offers slightly more distance.

Type 2 shaft: There are again two optional orientations available. N1 - 9 o'clock and
the opposite N2 - 3 o'clock. The important thing about this shaft type is that the more stable "N" locations are in line with the swing plane, offering maximum stability along the swing plane line. In addition the stronger S1-S2 spines are aligned in the 6 -12 o'clock plane and help to minimize "toe droop" as the clubhead approaches the ball during the swing. This appears to be an ideal type of shaft since it offers the best swing plane stability while minimizing toe droop.

Whether this is truly better than a so-called "perfect shaft" is unknown, since a perfect shaft which meets the USGA rules can't be built in an economic manner.


TWEAKING THE FINAL ASSEMBLY CONFIGURATION

Prior to Frequency Matching/Shaft Tipping and epoxying the golf club assembly in its final configuration, it is necessary to do a final bit of "tweaking" to achieve the best spine orientation performance. With the clubhead in the final orientation, the shaft must be "twanged" or oscillated in the 3 -9 o'clock swing plane of the club with the clubhead held firmly in position.
The object is to achieve Flat Line Oscillation (FLO) of the assembly - that is, the club should move only in the swing plane, with no movement at right angles to this plane. If there is any tendency for the clubhead/shaft to move in directions (oval or circular pattern) away from the swing plane, the clubhead/shaft orientation should be changed in 1-2 degree increments until FLO is achieved. The final shaft-head orientation should be marked in order to regain this position after epoxy had been applied and the assembly positioned for drying.

CAUTION FOR RE-WORKING EXISTING CLUBS

There are many pitfalls to be avoided in re-working existing clubs to orient their spines. For instance, thru-bore clubs such as Callaway and Titleist create problems since the shaft tip has to be cut off and finished smoothly to the club head. Tipping the shaft will increase the stiffness and some swingweight will be lost.

For any club, especially Type 2 graphite, the frequency or stiffness of the club will vary as the shaft is rotated to the new alignment. Some of the shafts may vary 15-20 cpm (two flexes) around the circumference, and will be stiffer in the S1-S2 plane than in the N1-N2 plane. Its difficult to tell a customer that his club is now two flexes weaker than it started out! But it's a fact of life, and the customer should be forewarned that he may need a new shaft.

Wilson Fat Shaft clubs are real nasty because of their size and construction. Replacement ferrules are not available to the clubmaker at this time.

Oversize shaft tips require different size ferrules also - be sure you have the right size on hand before re-orienting the shaft for a customer.


WHAT CLUBS SHOULD BE SPINED?

In my shop, I swingweight match, frequency match and orient the shaft properly on all new clubs. In this way I can assure myself and the customer that they have the best product available.

When I am re-working existing clubs, I think that all woods and the long irons (through 5 iron) should have the shafts properly oriented. I don't think that much benefit is achieved for the average golfer to have the shorter irons re-worked for shaft orientation. For the better golfers who have a good sense of feel, they my want them all re-worked - because lets face it the re-worked clubs do feel better than the random spine placement that exists in nearly all golf clubs today.


WHERE ARE WE AND WHERE ARE WE GOING

To the best of my knowledge, none of the OEM manufacturers of golf clubs or shafts have an agreement with Dick Weiss, the owner of the patent on shaft spining. The only license agreement in existence to date is the one wherein Golfsmith sells a shaft spining service to their customers for $6.95 per shaft. Also at the current time, there are very few clubmakers equipped to provide shaft orientation services because of lack of tools, lack of knowledge or both. Licensing under the patent for independent clubmakers will be addressed in the future.

Some clubmakers (like fishing rod makers) have been working with spines for years. What effect this will have on the Weiss-owned patent is hard to say. I do know that Weiss has spent at least a million dollars to date in acquiring and preparing to defend the patent, so you can see he doesn't take this lightly. Dick continues development of spine-related technology and tools, some of which will be revealed at the 1999 Golf Clubmakers Association Conference at Golfsmith in mid-October.

How effective is shaft orientation in clubs? Tom Wishon, Chief Technical Officer of Golfsmith has said that this is the next step beyond frequency matching of golf clubs, but to do it properly the set of clubs must be frequency matched in conjunction with spine orientation to achieve the effect desired. If a set of clubs is just shaft-oriented, with no attempt to frequency match, they may be worse than a set of clubs without shaft orientation.

>From personal experience, I have found that frequency matching and spine orienting my woods has resulted in better feeling, longer and more accurate clubs. "Longer" is 5-10 yards, not 25-50 yards. Feel is that of being "real solid" when the ball is hit. Perhaps the "feel" gives me a sense of better accuracy since I cannot express that in meaningful numbers. For the irons, I know that the long irons are definitely better. A question still exists on the short irons since I am not a good judge of this at this point in time - we'll see. In the meantime, I even orient the shaft in putters that I am building new or re-shafting since I believe in the theory and technique.


Bill Day owns and operates Bill's Custom Golf in St .George, UT. For questions, comments and help, contact Bill at (435) 674-3544; Fax at (435) 688-2110; or E-Mail at billday@infowest.com.

[Chieflongtee]

I've read Bill Day's post a long time ago.Keep in mind the article was written a few years back. First the type 1 shaft does not have a spine 180 degrees from the NBP. What people call a spine in a steel shaft is a residual bend. Come over to my place and I'll prove it to you. Put a steel shaft in a Frequency analyser rotate it 360* and you'll find one real spine( frequency differential) and one NBP. What people refer to a spine in a steel shaft is what is found in a bearing spinefinder. I have even proven this to someone with more experience/knowledge than me.
Secondly a shaft with 3 spines as refered in Bill Day's article is usually considered a reject and returned to the manufacturer. Bill goes on to say that these are really stange.
Type 3: Other This is a "catch-all" category that includes anything other than Type 1 or Type 2 shafts. There are some shafts that may have three sets of spines and NBPs. Others may have a noticeable NBP but no real prominent spine. This includes some new patterns S1-120-N1-120-S2 and N1-120-S1-120-N2 (these are really strange).. I even suspect these tests were done in a bearing type spinefinder. If that's what you want in clubs well more power to you.
To cap it off read the following by John Kaufman:

Quote:
I'm not quite sure what your first three sentences mean. How about we go
back to some basics. First of all every shaft ever made is a Type 2. Every
shaft has a weak and strong plane. The strong is called the "principal axis"
in the text books and the weak is the "neutral axis." I guess clubmakers
call them spine and neutral. It's just that some shafts are more type 2 than
others. I've seen shaft that have less than 0.5cpm difference between the
two planes and I've intentionally built others that have had over 30 cpm
difference. But they're still type 2's. A Type 1 shaft is simply a bent
shaft. It still has a weak and strong plane (not weak and strong
sides....they're a planes). The weak and strong planes represent the low and
high natural frequencies of the shaft. The two planes are always exactly 90
degrees apart. If I can get a shaft to vibrate in one of these two planes I
will not excite the other natural frequency of the shaft therefore I will
get FLO but FLO has absolutely nothing to do with the performance of the
shaft. It's simply a means of locating these two planes. Since the two
planes are at right angles to one another when I excite the shaft in one of
these planes the plane at right angles sees none of the oscillation. If I
get a bit off of one of these planes the other natural frequency is also
excited and the two frequencies will beat against one another and the shaft
will appear to wobble. The bigger the difference in the two natural
frequencies the bigger propensity for the shaft to wobble.

I don't know this for a fact only from experiments (see PCS Journal Jan/Feb.
2003) but I don't think the bend in a shaft has any effect on the location
of the FLO planes. When rotating a shaft and looking for FLO locations you
should find four. If I twang a shaft in its stiffest plane and get FLO and
then rotated it 180 degrees I will get the same frequency and again it will
FLO. If I rotate it 90 degree I will get the lowest frequency and it will
again FLO. A 180 rotation will give me the fourth FLO location.(See last
Tech Note in www.csfa.com )

The problem in measuring FLO in a shaft that has very little differential
frequency is that it appears to FLO most everywhere. FLO can be screwed up
just by the care you take in twanging it. It's very easy to put a little
side torque on the shaft and get funny results. When I ran some really
precise tests I used a trigger release to twang the shaft. When I do shaft
alignment I really don't pay too much attention to FLO. I use a frequency
analyzer capable of 0.1cpm readout and just look for the orientation that
gives me the lowest frequency.

The problem I've had with spinefinder is that they respond not only to
differential stiffness' in a shaft but also to any bend that exists in the
shaft. The question I've always had is what is the effect of a bend on the
performance of the shaft. I've not really been able to find any but I could
certainly be wrong. I know of two other people who have run tests and they
can't find any effect either. Typical bends that are encounter are in the
area of a tenth of an inch. Just the droop of the shaft with a head hanging
on it is about six times that much. The spinefinders are sensitive enough to
detect the bend but I think it's just swamped in the actual swing.

BTW I was R&D manager on a vibratory gyro project and Type 2 was the bane of
our existence. We had to tune things to get the two natural frequencies as
close to equal as we could. We were etching away material in the tenths of
microgram region to get the two frequencies within a part per billion of one
another. It was a pretty pricey device but it was also pretty accurate. We
were trying to sense rotation rates equivalent to a full turn in three
years. It was a fun project.

Cheers,
John K

[haribo]

Thanks for the welcome.

You know what ... I'm getting tired of reading all this stuff. I mean no offence. Don't get me wrong. I'm literally getting tired. Just don'y buy all that stuff. Not even interested much in it.
For your entertainment here's a funny story.
Was talking a while ago with my clubmaker about it. Even he doesn't believe all of this pseudo scientific talk. (Again, no offence ... his words) He told me he had a customer who wanted all his clubs spined and floed. So to test things he did first just one club. His customer told him later how great this club all over sudden felt. So, he finished the rest as well. But, as an experiement on his own, he decided to take one of this customers clubs and do the absolute opposite. Meaning, he oriented the spine/flow in a way that it clearly should feel completely off compared to the rest of the clubs. My clubmakers reasoning was, if there's really something to it, his customer should notice it easily and tell him something's wrong with that 4 iron. He than of course would fix it at no charge. Well, to his surprise that customer never said a word again other than how much better ALL his clubs were since they got spined and floed.

There you go.

haribo

[Chieflongtee]

Funny story and it a way it makes a lot of sense sense if the shaft had very little frequency differential(i.e 1 or 2 cpm all the way around). I am tired too. Before I go though how do you explain the fact that over 180 PGA tour players have their shafts SST pured and that Penley is investing big time money into Spineless shafts or rather near perfect shafts? http://www.ottawagolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3591
Anyway

[haribo]

Funny story and it a way it makes a lot of sense sense if the shaft had very little frequency differential(i.e 1 or 2 cpm all the way around). I am tired too. Before I go though how do you explain the fact that over 180 PGA tour players have their shafts SST pured and that Penley is investing big time money into Spineless shafts or rather near perfect shafts? http://www.ottawagolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3591
Anyway

Because Pro's take any advantage they can get. If they believe in it or not. As long as it doesn't harm them, they try absolute everything. Remember as the ProV1 came onto the szene? The word got out that it goes even further when you seam it towards your target on tee shots. In an interview on TV Justin Leonard got asked about that. His answer was that he didn't know if it's correct and frankly doesn't even care about it. But he does seam the ball as well simply on the chance that he might miss out on something otherwise.

Some Pro's are very much into their equipment, other's couldn't care less. Some of these guys have no clue whatsoever. If something breaks they go to the Tour Van and say "Fix it". Other's are tinkerer's like us. Testing 30 drivers, all set up to the same specs with different shafts, just to find a magic wand for this weeks tournament.
Reality is that companies come up with all that kind of stats just to create some hype. Particular the underdogs. Everything is fine and dandy. Hype crates interest, interest creates sales. Unfortunately, sometimes it's not always true. For example, Graphite Design is stating that they have the most used graphite shaft on Tour. Although the Darell Survey and "money list" or whatever you call it give the nod clearly to Fujikura. They are in fact leading the stats for quite some time.
That's also why penley and other companies try everything to topple Fujikura.

Anyway, unless you tried one already. I highly recommend you try a Fuji shaft for yourself. Find the right one and you'll see a difference you won't believe otherwise. (go to www.bombsquadgolf.com ... bighitter, Todd, the owner of that forum can set you up and help you figure out which one's the best for your game. Or go to any charter Fujikura dealer for that matter.)

My own clubmaker (and also teaching pro, former assistant of the late George Knudson) thought I'm nuts. He didn't believe a thing I told him about Fujikura. Well, until I set him up with one (got a few connections). Now, he's touching nothing else but Fujikura for himself.

Don't get me wrong. I have no relation with Fuji. Whatsoever. I'm just a big fan of their products. Got a SIX in my driver and a HM-4 (tour only, 117gram, 3*tourque, soft tip and counterbalanced) in my 4 wood. Love them.

haribo

[Chieflongtee]

I'll give them a try. But not based on the Darell. Word is the survey takes place before the tournament starts. Then when they leave the pros switch back to their favorite gear :shake

[haribo]

I'll give them a try. But not based on the Darell. Word is the survey takes place before the tournament starts. Then when they leave the pros switch back to their favorite gear :shake

I'm talking Tournaments Won. Meaning Sunday afternoon, when it counts.

haribo

[Chieflongtee]

http://www.mitchellgolf.com/test/measuringshafts.asp

[haribo]

I'll give them a try. But not based on the Darell. Word is the survey takes place before the tournament starts. Then when they leave the pros switch back to their favorite gear :shake

Btw, Darrell survey takes place at every tournament on Thrursday's on the first tee. Just before the Pro's start their round.

[Chieflongtee]

Can't reveal my source:
Quote:
This is a company
that counts what every tour player hits or wears every week and then for
a sizeable fee, makes that data available to the companies. In turn the
companies use that in their ads to state how many players are "using"
their equipment each week. But the interesting thing about the .....
is that their reps do the count only one day a week, usually on the
Thursday or Friday rounds of the tournament. Therefore, for the past 10
yrs or so, it has been common knowledge that the bigger companies will
pay the medium to lower ranked players between $1000 and $2000 just to
put their driver or other club in their bag just for the day of the
count even though they know the player will go back to his
preferred stick on all of the other days. For the players who are not
ranked high enough to command the 6 figure endorsement contracts, this
is how they supplement their income when they are not playing well
enough to make the good checks.

[haribo]

Yes, I know that. That's common knowledge. Nothing secret about it. But as I said earlier about Fujikura, THEY DO NOT PAY ANYBOY ON TOUR ANYTHING TO USE THEIR SHAFTS. No tee-up money from Fujikura.

On a side note, not even every tour player can get all the Fuji's available he wants. There are some Fujikura shaft's that are so expensive to produce due to the particular Triax Engine for that shaft, that you got to be one of the better, well known Pro's before they give it to you.

haribo

[Chieflongtee]

I checked out the web site. Basically what the Triax shaft does is pretty much what the puring technique does i.e very little ovaling.
http://www.fujikuragolf.com/technology.html
Hope you have one of these in your new TM.
http://www.ottawagolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3661

[haribo]

I checked out the web site. Basically what the Triax shaft does is pretty much what the puring technique does i.e very little ovaling.
http://www.fujikuragolf.com/technology.html
Hope you have one of these in your new TM.
http://www.ottawagolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3661

The TM510 I have now is a tour issue version (also been called "510 Mid"). It's 350cc in opposite to the retail(330cc) head, square face, slightly deeper face (1/8"), 0.335" hosel, higher COG.
I got it as head only straight from the TM Tour Department ... with the help from a good friend. The head is brand new which means it is not been tweaked to the spec's of a particular Pro. I set it up with a Fujikura SIX shaft in x flex, tipped an inch and a quarter. Awesome combination. Perfect club for me since I'm not that big on big (400cc+) clubheads.

haribo

[sensfan63]

Can't reveal my source:
Quote:
This is a company
that counts what every tour player hits or wears every week and then for
a sizeable fee, makes that data available to the companies. In turn the
companies use that in their ads to state how many players are "using"
their equipment each week. But the interesting thing about the .....
is that their reps do the count only one day a week, usually on the
Thursday or Friday rounds of the tournament. Therefore, for the past 10
yrs or so, it has been common knowledge that the bigger companies will
pay the medium to lower ranked players between $1000 and $2000 just to
put their driver or other club in their bag just for the day of the
count even though they know the player will go back to his
preferred stick on all of the other days. For the players who are not
ranked high enough to command the 6 figure endorsement contracts, this
is how they supplement their income when they are not playing well
enough to make the good checks.

I'm sorry, but $1000 is pocket change for anybody on the PGA Tour, and who in the world would use one driver on Thursday just for $1000 and then go back to a club they like on Friday? If they're struggling, it just doesn't make sense to use a driver they aren't particularly fond of.

Now, I know that some pros in the past have actually put two drivers in the bag on Thursday, but it MUST stay in the bag on Thursday. The Survey people are on the first and tenth tees, taking every club out of the bag and writing down what grips, shafts, heads the pro is using. So I don't think that any pro would take their driver completely out of the bag.

By the way, when you come out of the sixth round at the third stage of Q-School and have your PGA Tour card, you are guaranteed a minimum of $200,000 before you play a round out there.

Cheers...

[Chieflongtee]

The Survey people are on the first and tenth tees, taking every club out of the bag and writing down what grips, shafts, heads the pro is using. So I don't think that any pro would take their driver completely out of the bag.


Cheers...[/QUOTE]

sensfan63. I could not tell you about the Q school as I've never been there and will never even come close even in my wildest dream. I got the quote from a very trusted source who's been there before. Anyhow wouldn't it be more accurate or logical to conduct the survey on sunday?

[Colby]

The Survey people are on the first and tenth tees, taking every club out of the bag and writing down what grips, shafts, heads the pro is using. So I don't think that any pro would take their driver completely out of the bag.

I marshalled at the Buick Classic last year at Westchester and was part of the group of marshalls that escorted Tiger all four rounds. Maybe they don't perform the survey at every tournament because there was no-one ripping through the bag on the 1st and 10th tees. I couldn't imagine that a pro would be happy ripping through their bag taking a survey halfway through a round, especially if they are playing in threesomes. The time delay and noise would make some of them very grumpy.

[sensfan63]

I marshalled at the Buick Classic last year at Westchester and was part of the group of marshalls that escorted Tiger all four rounds. Maybe they don't perform the survey at every tournament because there was no-one ripping through the bag on the 1st and 10th tees. I couldn't imagine that a pro would be happy ripping through their bag taking a survey halfway through a round, especially if they are playing in threesomes. The time delay and noise would make some of them very grumpy.

Sorry about the confusion, Colby. I meant that when they split tees in the first and second rounds (ie. you start on #10 in one of the two rounds), the Darrell Survey people are there too.

[Colby]

Sorry about the confusion, Colby. I meant that when they split tees in the first and second rounds (ie. you start on #10 in one of the two rounds), the Darrell Survey people are there too.

Ahh, ok. I still don't remember them looking at all three clubs. Tiger was grouped with Scott Hoch and Steve Flesch the first two days, and I don't remember anyone taking clubs out of the bag. Of course I was busy nabbing cameras and cell phones