Simulators

[Weazl]

Hello folks.

Question: Has anyone played on the simulators on Canotek? Are they comparable to those at Golf-O-Max? I've played Golf-O-Max several times however recently bought a house in Orleans, a fair distance away so was curious about the simulators on canotek. Any thoughts, suggestions or other pieces of wisdom are welcome. Thanks!

[alice]

I would also be interested to know. At the Pineview Golf Club they have a couple of simulators but not sure as to how good they are.

[golfdoc]

Canotek now offers 2 types of simulators.

Dead Solid and Eagle Hit.

Dead solid is a great teaching tool because it shows club path, clubhead speed and tempo. If you have a bad path, the ball slices and hooks.

Eagle hit is different. It uses a different sensor system and the ball really doesn't slice or hook much. You do however get to hit off different types of artificial mats and not only the tee each time.

Try them out. There is also going to be a 2 man best ball challenge coming up soon where golfers will play 9 holes on each system. Top prize is a golf package worth nearly $1000.

Entry fee $30 includes golf + pizza + pop.

[Weazl]

Thank you for the info however it doesn't help me much. My questions is more of a comparison one in which I would liek to know in relation to what is at Golf-O-Max, is Canotek rd. any ood? Basically I want to know if I should drive all the way to Merivale or stay in the East end. Thanks,

[golfdoc]

I can say one thing for sure about the Dead Solid machines. They are much more realistic in terms of shot patterns (slice, hook, draw, fade etc...) I know people who shoot 65 at Golf-O-Max and then shoot 95 at OCDG on Canotek.

You should choose a mchine in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. Playing at Golf-O-Max will not help to improve your swing mechanices. It is purely entertainment (nothing wrong with that)

Dead Solid are used as teaching tools. They show swing path, impact, clubhead speed and tempo.

I can't recommend a system if I don't know your goals.

[Colby]

I can say one thing for sure about the Dead Solid machines. They are much more realistic in terms of shot patterns (slice, hook, draw, fade etc...) I know people who shoot 65 at Golf-O-Max and then shoot 95 at OCDG on Canotek.

You should choose a mchine in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. Playing at Golf-O-Max will not help to improve your swing mechanices. It is purely entertainment (nothing wrong with that)

Dead Solid are used as teaching tools. They show swing path, impact, clubhead speed and tempo.

I can't recommend a system if I don't know your goals.

Actually I have to disagree with your first point, at least for me. I have played the DeadSolid gear a few times, and have had to always compensate for a brutal hook that is not in my outside game. I have hooked a nine iron 150 yards to the side. I have a fade/sometimes slice that is pretty consistant. I do not draw the ball, and the only time it goes to the left is when I pull it. Yet everytime I play the Deadsolid gear I hook so badly it's stupid.

Golf-O-Max has the draw/fade parameters de-tuned. This helps to speed the game up as the shots tend to be long and down the middle. A more realistic approach is the new FullSwing software being used at the Canadian and at Chez Putter (I think that's what it is called) in Gatineau. You can't de-tune that, and it plays my fade quite nicely. Also gimmies are down to 6 feet, and I can actually play a pitch with my sand/lob wedge.

For me personally, the whole image of the club going across the sensor is gimmicky. 2 degrees open, closed, I can't tune my hands and arms that precisely. Show me an accurate ball flight and I'm happy. Working with mirrors, video and a professional instructor all help me more that showing me the club as it goes across the sensor.

The low scores at Golf-O-Max are commonplace, that I agree. 12 foot gimmies, as well as no slices or hooks makes the day easier. The lies are always perfect, and you have to like heavy rough where your ball sits on top, But at least if you hit the trees, you ball continues with an approximated motion instead of dropping immediately to the ground like the Deadsolid simulators do.

Indoor golf for me serves two purposes. It helps keep me loose over the long winter and it's a night/day out with good friends. If I want to work on my swing mechanics, I will go see a professional, it's the same as playing a round outside, I don't work on my game while I play. I work on it while practicing on the range or taking a lesson. I don't want to think while playing, I want to enjoy myself.

[golfdoc]

I am glad you agree on some things. But seriously, you think it is better that when you hit a tree, the ball continues instead of dropping to the ground??? Does this happen outside for you also?

The club path is very helpful in teaching. A lot of people just don't realize how bad a club path they have and this is a great way to see it. Yes, it is difficult to change from 2* open to 3* open or anything like that.

A lot of times the draw is because of the fact you hit off a tee all the time on DeadSolid (biggest complaint about system)

Anyways, in my opinion, any machine that pretty much puts the ball down the middle for 95% of the golfers is purely for entertainment.

Just depends what you are looking for...

[el tigre]

Dead solid is a great teaching tool because it shows club path, clubhead speed and tempo.

I agree with this statement. I've taken lessons with a golf pro on these machines, and this information was VERY useful - especially when you are working on one particular aspect of your swing. But...

I can say one thing for sure about the Dead Solid machines. They are much more realistic in terms of shot patterns (slice, hook, draw, fade etc...)

...I'm not convinced that this is always true. The shot patterns that the simulator comes up with is determined from the data - and with more types of data there are a lot more variations on shot patterns. For example, if you have an outside-in path but a closed face and hit on the toe of the club with a lot of clubhead speed but a high launch angle - will it produce a realistic shot pattern? I'm not convinced that the programming is sophisticated enough. Nevertheless, all these individual pieces of data can be very useful - as long as you don't put too much faith is the final result that the simulator comes up with.

[Colby]

I am glad you agree on some things. But seriously, you think it is better that when you hit a tree, the ball continues instead of dropping to the ground??? Does this happen outside for you also?

The club path is very helpful in teaching. A lot of people just don't realize how bad a club path they have and this is a great way to see it. Yes, it is difficult to change from 2* open to 3* open or anything like that.

A lot of times the draw is because of the fact you hit off a tee all the time on DeadSolid (biggest complaint about system)

Anyways, in my opinion, any machine that pretty much puts the ball down the middle for 95% of the golfers is purely for entertainment.

Just depends what you are looking for...

I've hit a lot of trees outside with golfballs, and in almost every experience, they bounce off of branches, trunks, go through leaves with only some loss of distance. I've had balls ricochet across the fairway after hitting a tree. With the Deadsolid system, as soon as your ball touches a part of a tree, even hitting leaves, you ball immediately drops to the ground.

The draw is the biggest detrement for me with the Deadsolid system. I don't hit a draw outside off a tee, almost always a fade if not slice, yet with the Deadsolid gear, I sometimes draw, but usually hook. The last time I played it I was aiming way off to the right hoping the ball would come around and stay in the fairway when it was done.

I also agree that the FullSwing gear used by Golf-O-Max is tuned for entertainment. My driver and fairway woods are ridiculously long at times, the same thing for the short irons and wedges. The software is also MS-DOS based and is close to 10 years old. The Canadian has the newer FullSwing gear, and if you can hit a draw, you can there. If you hit a fade, you can there. Short game is more realistic, screen animations are better, the tracking technology has improved in the last few years as well as the software itself. 40 courses or so also doesn't hurt.

The software at the Canadian takes longer to play, more strokes=more time taken, than Golf-O-Max, and has a few more statistics than the old software, ball speed, loft angle and a couple of others are displayed, but nowhere near the statistics on the Deadsolid gear. And it can't. The tracking technology is very different. The FullSwing software tracks the ball as it passes across two sensors to get speed, direction and loft angle of the ball, then as it bounces off the screen, it crosses the last sensor again, and using researched data, calculates the spin of the ball. The Deadsolid gear uses a tracking device below and behind the tee to track club head movement as it hits the ball. You input what club you are using to hit the ball to allow the system to calculate the distance.

As for the value of the statistics the Deadsolid software provides, I really doubt its accuracy when a shot I make always hooks on the machine when I always slice outside. If one aspect is untrue, how can I trust the rest. :shake

[NoBack]

You should choose a mchine in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. Playing at Golf-O-Max is purely entertainment / Dead Solid are used as teaching tools.

Now this I can agree on, as I have played on other sims that were not "as fun" as an outing with the boys whereas Golf-O-Max is an outing. And lately quite the outing to boot!

[jimrobin]

My opinion was made up when the guy I was playing with on a "dead solid golf sim" completely missed the ball (he was a beginner) and the sim showed us a a ball straight down the fairway 240 yards. At least at the GOM you have to make contact with the ball.

You should choose a mchine in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. Playing at Golf-O-Max is purely entertainment / Dead Solid are used as teaching tools. This I agree with.

[nice_lag]

What about GolfTek Simulators? Anyone ever tried those?

[Andru]

What about GolfTek Simulators? Anyone ever tried those?

I'm not normally this categorical

All simulators suck!!. Winter Sucks!!! When is spring going get here. HURRY!! PLEASE!!!

I hit some balls last weekend at The Docks in Toronto. Outdoor heated hitting stations. I hit 4 buckets in 3 1/2 hours. Cost me 40 bucks. Way better than any simulator. The ball sure flies short in the cold

Dead Solid is weird. It doesn't pick up the big driver heads very well. I also find OS cavity backs don't work that well. I also dislike the club selection thing. Yawn.

Golf-o-Max It's a video game. I fun one at that!

I'm setting up a htting station in my basement. Does anyone know where I can get a cheap net to catch the balls?? Also a cheap hitting mat??

Cheers

[Rough Stuff]

Winter Sucks!!! ....I hit some balls last weekend at The Docks in Toronto. Outdoor heated hitting stations. I hit 4 buckets in 3 1/2 hours. Cost me 40 bucks. Way better than any simulator.

Dont know the net/station answer, but I agree with you about Toronto...why hasn't anyone tried this here in the Capital region? A double decker with heat lamps...

[Andru]

Dont know the net/station answer, but I agree with you about Toronto...why hasn't anyone tried this here in the Capital region? A double decker with heat lamps...

Hmm Maybe it's an opportunity waiting to happen. I'm sure the golf nuts on this board would be thrilled to hit balls outside year round. I'm going to investigate the logistics.

The winters are a little milder in Toronto. 4 or 5 depress makes a big difference. at -5 the heaters keep you very toasty. at -10 Your hands get a little cold.

The question is Would enough people be willing to pay 10-12 dollars a bucket to hit balls in the winter with heat lamps vs. blasting balls into a screen.

[paulfourputt]

No need to drive to Toronto - Kingston has an outdoor range that stays open all winter. The hitting stations are enclosed on three sides with overhead propane heaters. Can't remember the name but it's at a course just west of downtown.

[Andru]

No need to drive to Toronto - Kingston has an outdoor range that stays open all winter. The hitting stations are enclosed on three sides with overhead propane heaters. Can't remember the name but it's at a course just west of downtown.

Thanks for that, I didn't know. I have to go to Toronto anyway.

[Rough Stuff]

The question is Would enough people be willing to pay 10-12 dollars a bucket to hit balls in the winter with heat lamps vs. blasting balls into a screen.

I would, everytime Im in Toronto I go to the downtown range.

Kingston? You'd have to have a reason for going to Kingston, wouldn't you?

[jbrace]

The name of the heated range in Kingston is WESTBROOK. It's way in the west end of town off Princess Street, I think on Westbrook(?) road. They charge about $12 for a large bucket (in the winter). Bring your winter golf gloves, even with the heaters it can get chilly.

[Moose]

With all the talk on here about Golf-0-Max and Canotek, I haven't seen any comments about the Master's Club. Has anyone tried this place yet. Supposed to be going next month and would like some opinions.

[Andru]

With all the talk on here about Golf-0-Max and Canotek, I haven't seen any comments about the Master's Club. Has anyone tried this place yet. Supposed to be going next month and would like some opinions.

Well...... Hmm. Ok the place is beautiful. The booths and service A1. The Sims are ok. It's kind of weird. You hit your ball into the screen. The ball flight is measured directly after impact.

The problem is this. You hit your ball. The ball hits the screen falls and then you see this little white dot fly down range superimposed on an image of a course. It looks OK. Like you looking at a picture. I couldn't get over that little delay. It just bugged me too much.

Also. If your ball is rolling down the fairway it rolls through little hills it doesn't roll over them. Just think of the shooting video game where they display a photo of a bank and you have graphics imposed on the photo. That's what it feels like. The graphics look really phony. The ball looks really phony on this simulator.

I'll give it another shot though. It's not always good to go on first impressions. If the ball flight is accurate. I can get over th rest. I like the putting it's the best I've seen so far in a sim.

[powerlefty]

There is a new simulator facility on Schneider Rd in Kanata - Winter Greens. It just opened in the past week or two I think. Has anyone tried it?

[Andru]

There is a new simulator facility on Schneider Rd in Kanata - Winter Greens. It just opened in the past week or two I think. Has anyone tried it?

Yes, Very nice owner his name is Bruce. Simulators are pretty good from tee to green even the putting is pretty nice. Only Flaw is you can't hit a low driving stinger it assumes a topped shot.

I'm anticipating it will be very popular in the near future. The graphics are very nice. A step up from golf-o-max. The game play is pretty good. Draws , fades

No flop shots. sensor won't pick up the ball. The distances are just about perfect.

That was just One game I'll have to go back to get a better feel.

Cheers

[gbower]

They just opened up yesterday and a group of us went to play this morning but didn't get a game in. Unfortunately the machine wasn't registering properly and shots went virtually nowhere. I swing with a natural golf swing and with my driver could only get about a half of a backswing and my 4 wd I had to have the ball on the far side of the tee area. With the tee in the middle of the screen there isn't a lot of room. Also as mentioned you really have to get the ball up in the air as the bottom half of the screen seemed to register nothing real. I really like the setup that they will have and as it's very close to home I won't be able to play it unless they change the teeing setup. I'm sure they'll have the company in shortly working on the simulators and get things sorted out.
Oh well I'll stick to hitting into the nets at Thunderbird and when they have the full width to hit next month it will be great.


>There is a new simulator facility on Schneider Rd in Kanata - Winter Greens. It just >opened in the past week or two I think. Has anyone tried it?

[el tigre]

I would also be interested to know. At the Pineview Golf Club they have a couple of simulators but not sure as to how good they are.

Tried the new simulators at Pineview today, so I thought I would give everyone my (very subjective) review.

The setup and software are a lot like the NEW Golf-O-Max software at the Canadian G&CC and on a few screens at Merivale, but better IMHO. If you like the New GoM software, you'll like Pineview.

Like the NEW GoM, the graphics are very good, chipping and putting distances are more realistic and it reads slices and hooks. Like the NEW GoM, high trajectory shots get less yardage that outside (about 10-15 yds in my case), low trajectory shots are severely punished on distance, while medium trajectories are as good or slightly better than outside. If you hit low drives, I suggest you forget the driver and use a 3-wood.

The aiming functions are still a step down from the OLD GoM software, but better than the NEW GoM software. The top view does not use a cursor that gives you yardages to the ball and the pin - it is a top view of the entire hole with yardage markers, so you have to figure out where you are and do the math for all the hazards, etc. It works, but it is time-consuming. You can only move the screen left or right within strict margins - after that you have to aim left to go farther left, etc. This can a problem if you're RH golfer in the left rough behind trees and want to pitch back onto the fairway - sometimes you just can't aim there.

Also, at GoM, you get the reverse view in the bottom-left corner on every shot, while at Pineview you can only view it as a replay IF you manually ask for in time AFTER your shot (the full-screen graphic display is VERY nice, mind you). It works, but it IS time-consuming because you use it often to see exactly where your shot lands.

Putting is more realistic in terms of speed, but still tough to figure out. A chart shows which way the putt breaks, which is fine. Another chart tells you if it is an uphill or downhill putt, but not how many inches or feet. There are no automatic 12-foot gimmies - but you can manually take a gimme at any time. It's going to take a bit of practice to get the hang of it. We ended up agreeing to a maximum 2-putt rule on the back nine, or we'd still be playing there!

At Pineview, they allot one hour per golfer to play a round - which is definately not enough! The aiming functions and the Reverse View Replay make every shot take longer no matter how well you are playing - and you shouldn't score as well as on the OLD GoM software. An hour per golfer plus 1/2 hour (like at GoM) would make more sense. The staff were good about it though - it is quite new for them as well.

So all in all, it is definately worth checking out. I'll be back.

[Colby]

Tried the new simulators at Pineview today, so I thought I would give everyone my (very subjective) review.

We've been trying to get a hold of the people at Pineview, do you or anyone have a phone #?

[el tigre]

Colby:

The phone number at Pineview for the simulators is 746-4301. You do not call the pro shop, like you would in the summer for a tee time on the course. The number above puts you through to the clubhouse.

They need to update their phone system - it doesn't actually say what number to call for a simulator round.

[Colby]

Thanks very much.

Hit 'em straight!

[Moose]

Regarding Canotek. We went on the weekend and I was thoroughly disappointed. We tried the first machine that has those sensors on the floor in front of the mat. Well the guy that works there said that it wouldn't register your shot if it was too much to the left. What he forgot to tell us was that even if you hit the screen dead centre, it wouldn't register sometimes. After a couple of holes and much frustration, we moved over to the other machine.

I think it was called the dead solid one. It measured everything about your swing which was good. However, either the guy working there didn't care or couldn't be bothered showing us the different courses to choose from, he just punched one in, entered our names and said it was similar to the one on the other machine that we were playing. He didn't seem to know which courses were on the program and also didn't seem too interested in finding out. Anyway, we played some course (can't remember the name of it) and every hole had the same graphics. Mountain in the back, no water and the only thing that changed on the screen, was the shape of each hole. Every single hole had the same mountain in the background.

It was extremely boring and so we only played nine holes and then left. As we were also the only ones in the place for the first couple of hours, you would have thought the service would be pretty good. We had to keep calling him over to get us a drink. I should also point out that the place was freezing cold. Apparently there is no insulation in the roof (so the guy told us) and he had the heat cranked up as high as it would go. I also can't say much about the atmosphere.

I think I'll stick to golf-o-max or The Masters Club. :mad :mad

[golfdoc]

Too bad you didn't enjoy it. The new machines there are definitely a little tricky. They do miss some shots for sure but I think it has to do with the type of sensors.

The Dead Solid golf machines are great teaching tools. You can learn a lot about your swing. (path,tempo,speed etc) You must have had a pretty good score to find it boring. I have played those and yes, the graphics are ok but not great. I think it depends which machine you played on. They have one Dead Solid machine that is fairly new and it is really tough. (greens and faiways slope a lot) I believe the courses on those machines are mostly fictional.

If you are really good golfers, those machines might get boring. I guess it would be boring for me if I was shooting under par each time I played. Otherwise, it is still a challenge.