#rd Sens Thread... Honest Fans Only...

[golfisforfun]

Ok, now that the sweep is over, let's take an honest look at things.

I am not a Sens fan, but the last few years, I have admitted they were a very good team. They had skill, hard workers, tough guys, good defence and even a pretty good goaltending DUO.

BUT

Other teams have caught up. Other teams have become a lot better. I don't think the Sens got a lot worse, they just have not made the changes others have. A lot of that comes from drafting, and being great like the Sens were meant poor draft positions.

The Sens top line is as good as any other top line in the East.
The goaltending has not gotten any better and other teams have better goalies now.
The defence may have taken a step back and other teams have gotten better.

Mike Fisher is a good, hard working centre, but let's face it, he is a 3rd or 4th line centre on all other playoff teams in the East. What does that say about the rest of the players? The call-ups are not ready for the NHL.

It is time to rebuild. That is all. It is tough with Salary Cap rules to stay at the Top and the East has become much stronger in a hurry.

Montreal, Washington, Pittsburgh have become so much better in a hurry because they struggled for a long time and got draft picks and a youth system to improve.

The Devils will have to rebuild very shortly when Brodeur packs it in. The Flyers have rebuilt and are much better and have a strong future. The Rangers have added players through $$$ and have great goaltending.

Time for Sens fans to be patient and not jump ship.

[Indio]

Time for Sens fans to be patient and not jump ship.

Which Sens fans are jumping ship? The only people I see tearing apart the sens are the usual 'suspects'. I'm a sens fan, I haven't jumped ship and I believe they sucked pretty bad since the Emery fiasco in the fall. I believe we lost our best defenceman in Chara but he is the one that chose to go for more money, the Sens could no longer afford him. As for the goaltending situation, IMHO that was poorly handled but that is well documented and we won't go there again

I don't think they need to tear apart and rebuild, I think they need a few changes, especially on defence and change a couple of the forwards. The only person on the team that I think would be a huge mistake in trading is Alfie..... everyone else should be fair game as long as they get equal 'skill' in return. Will I be disappointed if they don't get rid of one of the 3 big boys? Nope....

The only 2 players that I absolutely want to see gone are Redden and Enery..... I have never liked Redden and Emery, well lets not go there

Murray built the Anaheim team that won the cup and I believe he already has plans in the works and we will see some changes in the team come next season....

[dbleber]

I agree, they should have kept Chara and let Redden go. We lost a huge presence on the back end. Also, we still need a number 1 goalie. Gerber played really well in th eplayoffs but I still don't consider him a number 1 goalie who will get you to the cup. Emery has to go because his attitude sucks. I found that the team actually took a step back this year with some of the pick ups like Lapointe, Donovan. Although these guys played well in the playoffs, Ottawa should concentrate on young, fast talent. They def need a second line. It's going to be an interesting off season. Commodore, Stillman, Lapointe, Edden and Emery are gone for sure. Phillips, Volchenkov and Mezeros I would keep, but we need a big 30 min guy. Spezza, Heatley and Alfie are safe, but other then that I think it's fair game.

[jeffc]

The whole Emery thing was the beginning of the end. They didn't deal with it properly at the start and it snowballed. He will be gone, as will a few others. Can anyone remember a year when they wasn't a goaltending controversy in Ottawa? Redden will be gone as will Emery.

They screwed up on Chara, should have kept him and now will lose him and Redden for nothing.

There will be 2-3 new d-men, another goalie, and some good character players.

Also a new coach will be brought in. Expect 6-7 new faces in the lineup next year.

I think there is some decent young talent in Zubov, Lee, Foligno to fill a few roles and keep payroll under control.

[Big Johnny69]

I'm not too worried about the core personal. What I'd like to see is the Sens bring in a no-nonsense type of coach. Someone who will not be affraid to bench the big money players if they're not performing. There is talk Bob Hartley will be a candidate. He would be a bad choice. Does anyone remember why he left Atlanta? The players didn't want to play for him anymore, that's the last thing we need here.

I would've like to have seen Hitchcock or someone like Brent Sutter (alas the Devils got him). The soft players need a huge wake up call. Start with the coach and go from there. If they're smart, they'll hire a coach first and then sit and talk with him to see what kind of players he'd like the organization to make a pitch for.

[leftylucas]

Pat Burns would be a great fit here, he coached the Olympiques and does not hesitate to bench players who play every third game. Plus with all of the changes in player personnel this summer a new coach could really put his stamp on this team.

[Chambokl]

The Sens are built around 3 players... They didn't produce and they lost. They have been unstoppable at some point (last year) but when the top line gets 2 points in 4 games there is NO way they will win...

Emery was a nuissance from the beginning.... should had been dealt with in November...

[Indio]

I agree, they should have kept Chara and let Redden go. We lost a huge presence on the back end. Also, we still need a number 1 goalie. Gerber played really well in th eplayoffs but I still don't consider him a number 1 goalie who will get you to the cup. Emery has to go because his attitude sucks. I found that the team actually took a step back this year with some of the pick ups like Lapointe, Donovan. Although these guys played well in the playoffs, Ottawa should concentrate on young, fast talent. They def need a second line. It's going to be an interesting off season. Commodore, Stillman, Lapointe, Edden and Emery are gone for sure. Phillips, Volchenkov and Mezeros I would keep, but we need a big 30 min guy. Spezza, Heatley and Alfie are safe, but other then that I think it's fair game.

I'm not sure all of the big three are safe.... I would not be surprised to see them deal Spezza (although I don't mind if they keep him either) if the deal was right for us. I don't see them moving heatly or alfie... I think there is more to the Luongo story than meets the eye..... but time will tell I guess.

[Indio]

Pat Burns would be a great fit here, he coached the Olympiques and does not hesitate to bench players who play every third game. Plus with all of the changes in player personnel this summer a new coach could really put his stamp on this team.

I would love to see Pat in Ottawa!

One thing for sure, they should not bring in someone new who is unproven (ie. from the minors). The person is going to have to be tough and fair..... but more so tough!

[Fallys0820]

I agree, Pat Burns would be great for Ottawa. Get a little Maple Leaf blood flowing through their veins!

(sorry, this was just too yummy to pass up!)

Fallys
aka Scott

[Mattchew]

Ok, now that the sweep is over, let's take an honest look at things.

I am not a Sens fan, but the last few years, I have admitted they were a very good team. They had skill, hard workers, tough guys, good defence and even a pretty good goaltending DUO.

BUT

Other teams have caught up. Other teams have become a lot better. I don't think the Sens got a lot worse, they just have not made the changes others have. A lot of that comes from drafting, and being great like the Sens were meant poor draft positions.

The Sens top line is as good as any other top line in the East.
The goaltending has not gotten any better and other teams have better goalies now.
The defence may have taken a step back and other teams have gotten better.

Mike Fisher is a good, hard working centre, but let's face it, he is a 3rd or 4th line centre on all other playoff teams in the East. What does that say about the rest of the players? The call-ups are not ready for the NHL.

It is time to rebuild. That is all. It is tough with Salary Cap rules to stay at the Top and the East has become much stronger in a hurry.

Montreal, Washington, Pittsburgh have become so much better in a hurry because they struggled for a long time and got draft picks and a youth system to improve.

The Devils will have to rebuild very shortly when Brodeur packs it in. The Flyers have rebuilt and are much better and have a strong future. The Rangers have added players through $$$ and have great goaltending.

Time for Sens fans to be patient and not jump ship.

Become a bottom feeder like the Pens for a couple years and get a bunch of great first rounders and you should become a good team. They will be good for a couple years and watch guys like Malkin and Stall jump ship for more $$ and they will be in the same deal as most teams.

Coaching will be the biggest thing they do over the off season IMO. need to get someone thats going to make them play like a team and not as a bunch of individual's. Who that is I dont really know. Dont know to much about coaches but I dont think Murry will bring in another rookie coach this year...well lets hope he learned his lesson with Paddock!

But I do think that a few of the core players will be gone... maybe Fisher, Neil, Phillips....Redden for sure. I like Spezza, but if he goes I wont miss his interviews every day! Whatever they do I will watch and cheer and scream and yell...so its all the same for me!

[davevandyk]

with getting rid of Redden's contract they can afford a good d-man like Rob Blake, Adam Foote, Brian Campbell or Brad Stuart. Not too mention that Christobal Huet and Olaf Kolzig are both UFAs.

[Hacker]

I'm already on record somewhere saying that they need 2 solid D, 2-3 solid North American style forwards and one goalie......is that a lot to ask? For sure it is, but if they do decide to trade one of the big 3 (and I think Spezza is the one to go, though I'd like to see him stay) we could easily get 2 or 3 of the needed players in return. Redden's salary will be put to good use as will Emery's.

I've heard from 3 different guys now who all claim to have "reliable sources" that the Emery deal is already done...........God I hope they are right!!

[The Saint]

Gerber? Do you mean Emery?

The Sens are built around 3 players... They didn't produce and they lost. They have been unstoppable at some point (last year) but when the top line gets 2 points in 4 games there is NO way they will win...

Gerber was a nuissance from the beginning.... should had been dealt with in November...

[jsttaylor]

I like the Pat Burns idea. You might disagree with this, but after Neil's performance in the playoffs I would not be sad to see him go. How many STUPID penalties did he take? Not intirely his fault as Murray kept putting him out there. Not much choice really though. So, Redden, Neil, Gerber, Emery, have got to go, and Alfie. Just Kidding. That guy, Alfie, I think is probably the best all around player most of us will ever see in our lifetime. New coach, keep the core, and trade for some speedy young talent and we'll be fine for next year.

[sillywilly]

I heard from my friend that the sens locker room is divided. He works for the sens and spoke to 2 of the players about it. None of the guys are friends off the ice. I'm not sure if this is true or not but I'm just telling you what he told me. Emery has issues... redden has issues which I don't think I should say on the board but you true fans have heard them all before. Get rid of the whole team, keep heatly and start from scratch

[Indio]

Get rid of the whole team, keep heatly and start from scratch

What to hell have you been smoking?????

[jsttaylor]

You have to keep Alfie too!!

[jonf]

I'm already on record somewhere saying that they need 2 solid D, 2-3 solid North American style forwards and one goalie......is that a lot to ask? For sure it is, but if they do decide to trade one of the big 3 (and I think Spezza is the one to go, though I'd like to see him stay) we could easily get 2 or 3 of the needed players in return. Redden's salary will be put to good use as will Emery's.

I've heard from 3 different guys now who all claim to have "reliable sources" that the Emery deal is already done...........God I hope they are right!!

I'm not so sure about that. Those 25 goal power forwards you want are not easy to come by. Ottawa would have had them a long time ago if they were. I agree that we need them, but that's about the toughest task you can ask of a GM.

What we need is a third line. Stillman Vermette Fisher could be an incredible second line together, but that leaves us with no depth at the third line. That's why Vermette doesn't get the ice time he deserves. It's not because he can't handle being a second liner. It's because if you put him up to the second line, line 3 and 4 collapse into uselessness.

Dump Redden, and dump Meszaros. Meszaros is a turnover machine. Someone needs to spend the summer teaching Volchenkov that he is not a goalie, and is still actually allowed to play the body. Give Lee a spot as a top 4 D-man. He will prove to be worth his weight in gold. Schubert will do well as a # 5 or 6 D-man. So, with Phillips, Lee Volchenkov, Schubert, that leaves you needing 2 D-men. At least one needs to be a puck mover like Campbell or Stuart. Then you need a solid, stay at home defenceman.

[dbleber]

I think Mezeros has losts of potential to be a great power play d-man. He's still young, so you can teach him about how be smarter with the puck, but after watching Redden for a few years, anyone would be a johnny cough-up. Getting rid of the young guys is not they way to go, just need a coach that can reel them in. Not sure I like Burns, but I would die to get Scotty out of retirement!

[Baxter]

I heard from my friend that the sens locker room is divided. He works for the sens and spoke to 2 of the players about it. None of the guys are friends off the ice. I'm not sure if this is true or not but I'm just telling you what he told me. Emery has issues... redden has issues which I don't think I should say on the board but you true fans have heard them all before. Get rid of the whole team, keep heatly and start from scratch

Sillywilly, maybe we have the same friend in the room..I have been told this as well about the room...Not so much about no one being friends off the ice as many guys do hang around with each other..The guys that aren't married....Emery seems to be in a much deeper place than Redden...I hope both can straighten up and have great days ahead no matter where they end up..There is no need to get rid of the whole team...They are a far cry from the very bad teams in the league...I know the record since the new year might not show it, but they are far away...I think Murray tried to improve this Team over last year and picked up 3 guys he thought would add the sandpaper and what this team needed to draw it together and help them threw the playoffs..He was wrong, so were the FANS. Only 1 of the 3 players he added seemed to work. But that happens. At least he did not give away the type of players Pitt did to get Hossa. When and if Pitt is gone in the next round Shero will be wondering what to do next...They are going to be in $$$$ trouble with the cap if they try and keep Hossa and he has to, he gave a lot of young players to get him...Speaking for Pitt losing players..You know who would like nice in Ottawa is that Malone for Pitt his contract is up at the end of the season..Hmmmm...They have to give Malkin a raise or he is 8( ...they have no defence to speak of..and this will show in the next series against the Rangers(if) a tougher Team than the way Ottawa played.

The Sens ship is not sinking...Lee, Foligno, Bass, Winchester and maybe Glass can all play next year...Not to many Teams can add 4 or 5 player to the roster(many wish they could) because their drafting is terrible...Ottawa Fans I know it sucks right now and I should be feeling the same after tonight but The Future still looks bright with the Senators a move here or there and this Team will be right back at the Top of East....My team is about 7 or 8 players away. And the Head coach hates our star player(Kessel benched the last 2 games)..I'm sure that helps the room......When Vegas does it odds for next season...There will many, many below Ottawa's ranking.

[jonf]

I think Mezeros has losts of potential to be a great power play d-man. He's still young, so you can teach him about how be smarter with the puck, but after watching Redden for a few years, anyone would be a johnny cough-up. Getting rid of the young guys is not they way to go, just need a coach that can reel them in. Not sure I like Burns, but I would die to get Scotty out of retirement!

I agree he's good offensively, but I really worry about him on the back end. I wonder who you could pair him with defensively who can make up for his lack of defensive ability? You can't put him with Phillips or Volchenkov, because those two get sent out against the other teams best lines...which is the last place I want to see him. And you can't really put him in the third pairing with Schubert or an equivalent player, because I just don't think he's got the defensive ability back there. I think we saw this series that Ottawa needs defence. Not defencemen who can score and turn the puck over. Defencemen who can play defence consistently. He doesn't strike me as that kind of player.

[dbleber]

He is def offensive but you can't have all stay at home d-man in todays fast moving league. He is young and with the right coach can be taught how to be more defensive, while not taking away from his offensive abilities. Look at Spezza, yes he gives the puck away, but he was brutal defeively when he first showed up but he is improving each year. If you get an older d-man like Blake or even Foot they would teach him a lot. He has been paired with Redden for the past few years and that's what you learn from Redden, how to give the puck away.

[byerxa]

I still say the Sens are much like the Red Wings of the 90's. Some real harsh first round lessons learned in the early 90's (Leafs were the problem back then too!). Continually questioning if the captain had what it takes. A trip to the final in 95 (I think) only to get trounced by NJ. Then a sort of ho hum until they re-grouped and won a couple of cups at the end of the 90s.

With some smart (and lucky) moves I think the Sens can challenge again soon. Hopefully Murray addresses the locker room issues. The long break will help as well.

[1972Apex]

The one thing I would not do if I were the Sens is get rid of Alfredsson. I used to hate the guy but in the past two years he has shown he has more heart than everyone else on the Senators put together. If everyone on the team gave as much as Alfie every night Ottawa would be working on their 3rd or 4th Stanley Cup by now.
Other than that the whole team is fair game. Emery is gone for sure and Redden was technically gone three months ago... he's way past his best before date...
My opinion is other than the top line Murray needs to blow up the whole team.

[Fallys0820]

I'd have to say that Ray is gone for sure. Hearing his quick little presser tonight on Sportsnet.ca, would sound like a man that knows his days are all but numbered.

The reporter must've asked if he takes any responsibility for the year (playoffs too maybe) and Ray says that he didn't have anything to do with what happened in the playoffs. That would appear to be a shot at having no play time regardless of what situation they were put in.

He also seemed to think that he could've been "fired" along with Paddock during the season but he couldn't, so he just got benched for the rest of the season.

Interesting responses.

Fally
aka Scott

[PEI Golfing]

I've heard from 3 different guys now who all claim to have "reliable sources" that the Emery deal is already done...........God I hope they are right!!

And I am sure that Smithers (who mentioned his friend's brother plays on the Sens) and I are not two of the three guys................ As previously mentioned we heard the same thing from our reliable sources............Smalltown Ottawa..........

[PEI Golfing]

I heard from my friend that the sens locker room is divided. He works for the sens and spoke to 2 of the players about it. None of the guys are friends off the ice. I'm not sure if this is true or not but I'm just telling you what he told me. Emery has issues... redden has issues which I don't think I should say on the board but you true fans have heard them all before. Get rid of the whole team, keep heatly and start from scratch

There are many retired NHL players living in Ottawa who have now moved on to other careers. However, they are still a close knit group of guys and still stay close to many of the people still involved with the NHL teams. I am sure many of you on this forum know these guys as either friends, neighbours, co-workers. These guys know what is going on...............

We all know that Emery and Redden (going back to his first year 1998 in Ottawa) have their off ice issues. Both will be gone within the next few months, so that problem is taken care of.

However, suprised by your comment about keeping Heatley.............Within the last few months, his name has been coming up about certain off ice issues..................Perhaps that might explain some of his recent (lack of) performances...........

[spackler]

Wow, Heatly? Everyone is on drugs now. Never mind Campbell, the Sens need Sonny Crockett up here....

This season is not Emery's fault. The same people who didn't care about off ice issues at the start of the year, now are blaming them entirely for the Sens'; failure. I think their impact was underestimated then, and overestimated now. Injuries played a far bigger role than anything else this year.

Goaltending (Gerber is not that good, he let in some killer goals in the post season that you just can't let in), coaching (IMO Paddock screwed the Sens over with his handling of the goalie rotation, and by not holding players accountable to the system), and depth are the issues that need to be rectified in the offseason. It won't be easy, and Murray could do enormous damage if he reacts to the season as emotionally as the fans have. Spezza, Heatly and especially Alfie form a solid core.

[PEI Golfing]

This season is not Emery's fault. The same people who didn't care about off ice issues at the start of the year, now are blaming them entirely for the Sens'; failure. I think their impact was underestimated then, and overestimated now. Injuries played a far bigger role than anything else this year.

Agree injuries played a huge factor, and neither Emery or Gerber proved to be a Class A NHL goalie.

Perhaps the Sens front office should have dealt with the issues of Emery prior to the season.

Remember Old PEI Golfing's post from beginning of September...........
http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showpost...7&postcount=33