Where to drop?

[Kilroy]

This is a par 3. Lyle's tee shot comes up short.
The ball lands at "X" and dissapears at "Y".





List the options available to Lyle under the rules.

• Rehit the tee shot with penalty of stroke and distance.
  We'll give ya that one.

THEN

Pick the option you would advise Lyle to play and why if you were his caddy in the Intersectionals, which is a match play event.

[jvincent]

Clarification question Dan. You have shown a yellow line around the hazard. Am I correct in assuming this means the hazard is marked with yellow stakes/line?

[Kilroy]

Good question.
If that is what I meant, would it be correctly marked?

[jvincent]

I think it's marked correctly. I'll say with a line of yellow paint. I'll let some other's go with their drop locations first.

[Kilroy]

You'd be correct on your assesment of the marking.

[LobWedge]

I'd say Lyle needs to go back to the range after coming up that short.

[Kilroy]

It's been a long winter.

[sillywilly]

I'll give it a shot... I think lyle can draw a line from A to Hole and then drop within two club lengths of A on either side provided he comes out perpendicular to line A-Hole. He can drop twice and then place it it rolls into the water both times (what if it rolls behind the haward line but is still on land???). Take his shot and still get up and down for a +1

As for what I would suggest if he was playing match?? I don't see why that would make any difference at all.

His options I suppose would then be

1. Go back and hit again
2. Do what what I said above
3. I have no clue... play it from the water??? But you said disapeared... so i guess not

[jonf]

Drop at E. Imaginary line through the hole and A, the point of entry. Ball must be dropped no closer to the hole, therefore the best bet is to drop at E.

However, there's probably some other way to go about it whereby he can actually drop in the fairway, or else you wouldn't have given that option

[mpare]

Here are all of the options that I would normally consider if the ball found its way into a water hazard:

1. Determine if you can still hit the ball within the margin of the water hazard. This is always permitted, keeping in mind that you cannot ground your club. In this case, since the ball "disappeared” at point Y, that is not a real option.

2. Rehit the ball from the spot where you struck the last shot. The penalty is one stroke. The procedure is to drop a ball at that spot. The ball may roll within the accepted distance from the point it was dropped. I have not checked the rule book to determine how far it can move without causing you to have to re-drop.

3. Play the ball anywhere behind the water hazard along a line drawn between the hole and the point of entry ("A"). The penalty is one stroke. The procedure is to drop a ball on a spot along that line. The same considerations as in paragraph #2 would apply to the ball rolling from the point it was dropped. The tactical advantage of this approach is that this line may eventually cross the fairway (either on the hole your playing or another, it doesn't matter) from which your next shot may be made more easily than playing in the rough. Remember that the closer shot (for example, dropping at E) may not be the best option as the rough may be impossibly deep at that point.

4. Point D appears irrelevant to this discussion. Had the ball entered the water hazard having last crossed that point it would be relevant, but that did not happen.

5. Point C is irrelevant to the discussion, as well, because the left side of this water hole has not been designated a lateral water hazard (which would be noted by red stakes). In any event, even if it were a lateral water hazard, you would not be able to drop at point C since it does not appear to be a spot situated within two club lengths of the point of entry (A).

6. There is one other option. Since this is match play, you can also waive the white flag and concede the hole. This is not an option that one normally thinks of, but you can always do this at any time while playing the hole. This might be tactically advantageous if your opponent is sitting one foot from the cup putting for birdie. Assuming that the putt is a no brainer (I know, are there ever any) then I might concede the hole, if I'm hitting three to the green. The psychological advantage may be worth it by denying your opponent the adrenaline rush of sinking a birdie putt on a hole that has been his or her nemesis for years.

[Kilroy]

drop within two club lengths of A on either side

Is it possible to do that, remaining outside the hazard and not end up closer to the hole than point "A"?

[jvincent]

As others have already suggested, E, or more correctly anywhere on the line extending back from E that goes through E and the hole is the correct spot.

[Kilroy]

anywhere on the line extending back from E that goes through E and the hole is the correct spot.

Correct. The rest was just fluff.

[Started2k3]

- rehit from the original spot (no letter)
- E (including any where behind E on the flag-A-E line)

Since the hole looks like Manderley Central 2, I know that there is fairly large flat sandy spot where his ball "disappeared". So Lyle also has the option of hitting out of the hazard if he can find his ball. Been in there a few times high and dry. ;-)

Charles

[Kilroy]

The bunker has been sodded over on this version of the hole.

[Started2k3]

The bunker has been sodded over on this version of the hole.

[jonf]

Correct. The rest was just fluff.

Holy crap, I got a rules question right!

[gbower]

To add Dan's question, what is the procedure if you go back 8 or 10 club lengths keeping points E, A and the flagstick in line and when you drop the ball rolls towards the hazard and more than two club lengths from where it was dropped??

[sillywilly]

I don't know dan. I still think my answer is right. it think one could come out two clubs lengths on either side of A no closer to the hole. What do you think??


And what is this about dropping in the bunker??? Did I miss something??

[jvincent]

I don't know dan. I still think my answer is right. it think one could come out two clubs lengths on either side of A no closer to the hole. What do you think??

The two clublength option only applies to a LATERAL water hazard, which this was not since it was marked with yellow.

[Kilroy]

jv has it right.


Note the highlighted bits

26-1. Relief for Ball in Water Hazard
It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the hazard. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 26-1.

If a ball is in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in a water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:

a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b.Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the holeand the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.

When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.

So we were left with 26-1a and 26-1b since it was not a lateral water hazard 26-1c does not apply.

I gave you 26-1a and was looking for 26-1b as the answer.

ONLY If the hazard were marked in red at the point of entry could you look for a spot that is within two club-lengths, not nearer the hole, than point "A" and not in the hazard. It may not be possible to find one, in which case you are back to 27-1b anyway.

[mpare]

Since I had the same answer, do I get extra points for the additional tactical considerations?

jv has it right.

[Kilroy]

Yes mpare you listed the correct options.
I was refering to jv having correctly pointed out the extra option that is only available to a player under rule 26-1c, as it applied to Sillyboys incorrect assesment of the situation.

[sillywilly]

Is it possible to do that, remaining outside the hazard and not end up closer to the hole than point "A"?

dan were you asking if it was possible = within the rules
or possible = physically possible



I have another question related to this

one of the options is to play the ball. What is your ball is sitting on some tall soggy grass in the pond but when you enter the pond it causes your ball to move.. can you still play it? Any penalty? I know if yuo move your ball while in the rough or fairway its a penalty

[gbower]

Silly, if when you step into the water to hit the ball and it moves you would be the cause of it moving and be penalized a stroke and have to replace it or take the drop from the hazard. They had this exact thing on the Champions Learning Center last night on the TGC.

[sillywilly]

so you drop from the water in the water???

[gbower]

Place it back where it was.

[jvincent]

Since I had the same answer, do I get extra points for the additional tactical considerations?

I received extra point for being brief.

[mpare]

Touche.

I received extra point for being brief.

[Kilroy]

dan were you asking if it was possible = within the rules
or possible = physically possible

I was asking if it's physically possible which is unlikely even if it were a lateral hazard. Not trying to mislead you, just looking at all aspects.

BTW a hazard in front of the green properly marked should be a yellow staked water hazard, not a lateral hazard so the point is moot anyway.