How Would You Rule?

[BC MIST]

This actually happened to me at a Seniors Tournament in September.

Playing in a 3 to 5 club wind off of Lake Ontario, one of my FC's had addressed a putt on the 15th green when a gust of wind moved his ball and hit his putter face. He stepped away and said, "My ball moved and hit my putter," and immediately, the other FC said," There is no penalty because wind is an outside agency. You have to put the ball back where it was before it moved." The first FC did this, and putted out for his par.

Now, he finished first with 69 and my 72 was second. How would you rule?

Where was I? Asleep, of course.

[Kilroy]

WAY too easy...

18-2. Ball moved By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment a. General
b. Ball Moving After Address
If a player's ball in play moves after he has addressed it (other than as a result of a stroke), the player is deemed to have moved the ball and incurs a penalty of one stroke. The ball must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.

[BC MIST]

WAY too easy...

Yes, but... Did the player move the ball of did the wind move the ball? Or does it matter?

What stopped the ball from moving? Any consequences?

Had the putter NOT been there would the ball have kept moving? What then?

If the player had taken his stance but the putter head had not been placed on the putting green and the ball hit the putter, would the result be any different?

[AAA]

The wind is irrelevant. The player had addressed the ball he has (is deemed to have) moved it. 1 stroke penalty. As he had not started his stroke he must replace it. The fact that it hit his club is also not relevant. He has got a 2 stroke penalty in total. Because he did not add the penalties to his score he should have been DQd. 18-2b

If he had not addressed the ball then Decision 18-2b/4 has something to say.

[Kilroy]

Yes, but... Did the player move the ball of did the wind move the ball? Or does it matter?

Wind is NOT an outside agency. so it doesn't mater.

What stopped the ball from moving? Any consequences?

18-2b/12 Ball Moves After Address and Is Stopped by Player’s Club
Q. After a player addresses his ball, the ball moves backward. Before the player can remove his club, the ball is stopped by the clubhead. What is the ruling?
A. The player incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2b and the ball must be replaced. Rule 19-2 does not apply in these circumstances

.
18-2b covers the entire incident. 1 stroke.

Had the putter NOT been there would the ball have kept moving? What then?

If the ball is moved by something other than an outside agency ie the wind - the player must play the ball as it lies or, if the ball is not found, proceed under Rule 27-1.

If the player had taken his stance but the putter head had not been placed on the putting green and the ball hit the putter, would the result be any different?

Addressing the Ball
A player has "addressed the ball" when he has taken his stance and has also grounded his club, except that in a hazard a player has addressed the ball when he has taken his stance

So the player has not addressed the ball.

Move or Moved
A ball is deemed to have "moved" if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place.

The ball moved. Rule 18 only covers the ball moved when influenced other than by mother nature. Play it as it lies.

[Kiwi battler]

AAA is correct IMO DQ

[AAA]

18-2b covers the entire incident. 1 stroke.

Dan

The ball was not replaced so he incurs the general penalty of 2 strokes

*If a player who is required to replace a ball fails to do so, or if he makes a stroke at a ball substituted under Rule 18 when such substitution is not permitted, he incurs the general penalty for breach of Rule 18, but there is no additional penalty under this Rule.

[Kilroy]

But the ball was replaced.

You have to put the ball back where it was before it moved." The first FC did this, and putted out for his par.

[Started2k3]

I don't ground my putter clubhead at all, so by the definition I have not addressed the ball. Is the penalty different in my case?

[BC MIST]

Before I checked 18 2b/12, my thinking was, 1 for the ball moving after address, 1 for the ball contacting the putter, 2 for playing from a wrong place, as the ball was replaced. But, as the first two represent one act resulting in two penalty strokes, only 1 penalty stroke would be applied, totaling 3. This is obviously WRONG since 18 2b/12 covers everything, in parrticular the ball having to be replaced. Regardless, he should have been DQ'd by signing for the 3 and I will needle him about this when I see him in September.

Now, if he addresses the ball, the wind moves it contacting the putter, when he removes the putter the ball moves, and he does NOT replace the ball, he gets 3 shots. But even if he does NOT ground the putter and the ball moves contacting the face, the club is moved, the ball rolls further and is NOT replaced, he still gets 3 shots. So the club being grounded or not being grounded means nothing if the ball moves after the putter is moved.

[AAA]

But the ball was replaced.

Oops. Thanks Dan, I missed that.

[AAA]

19-2/1.5 Ball Moves Prior to Address and Is Accidentally Stopped by Player’s Club; Player Removes Club and Ball Rolls
Away
Q. A player’s ball lies on a steep slope through the green. The player takes his stance but, fearing the ball might move, does not ground his club and so has not addressed the ball. The ball rolls backwards and is stopped accidentally by the player’s club. The player then removes his club and the ball rolls farther down the slope. Is the player subject to the penalty of one stroke under Rule 19-2?
A. Yes, and the ball must be replaced on the spot at which it was stopped. A further penalty under Rule 18-2a (Ball at Rest Moved by Player) would not be appropriate in the circumstances provided the player replaces the ball. If the ball is not replaced before the player makes his next stroke, the failure to replace the ball is considered a separate act (see Decision 1-4/12) and he loses the hole in match play or incurs an additional penalty of two strokes in stroke play under Rule 18-2a, for a total penalty of three strokes. (Revised)