Laser level for better putting

[Started2k3]

I was a T-to-Green today and I was showing off one of the things I have been working on ... putting along the beam of a laser level.

It is so crazy it ... does actually work ... go figure.

The main idea is that if the laser beam is hitting my ball then I know it is a straight line to the level itself. So on a "perfectly" straight putt the ball should always have the laser beam on it as it rolls. Even on a putt with some break the beam should be on the ball for the first few feet.

This tells me right away if I have pushed or pulled my putt and adjust accordingly ... what needs to change will depend on how well you can self diagnose your putting stroke.

The additional benefit is that I can determine the exact amount of break on a putt. For example, if the break is 2 golf balls to the left of the cup then that is where I put my laser level. I can then confidently putt along the beam, the ball will follow the beam most of the way but then come off towards the end as it veers towards the cup.

On a real practice green you would also be able to test your green reading ability. For example, for a particular putt determine what you think is the break - mark it - then set up the laser and putt to it - depending on which side of the cup the ball goes will tell you if you over or under read the putt AND tell you if you pushed or pulled the stroke because sometime, for me anyway a garbage putting stroke and a poor read result in holing it out.

I just thought I would share.
Charles

[gbower]

I've been doing this inside for some time now. Outside I found that the laser wasn't bright enough unless it's very overcast. I like being able to see if my putter is going back straight and going back through straight. Now all I need is something to help me stay still and not want to watch the damn ball leave the putter. That's my goal this winter.

[leftylucas]

I rigged a portable lazer on an older putter so it beamed out just above the centre line of the putter and above the ball which helped me realise how my aim was with the putter, yikes its was pretty bad. I find that this type of use of the laser is much more useful since I could actually find a routine way to line myself up and stay on line. If the putt went r or l then I knew it was the stroke not the target line on a straight putt.

[Powerdraw]

lefty, mind sharing how you put it on the putter without interfering with the contact of ball? thanks

[leftylucas]

A little glue gun action on a small block of balsam wood but large enough to tape the laser to the top of it. The putter was a mallet style so it had the room for the block behind the face. The block was made high enough so that the laser was above the ball and centered on the alignment guide on the top of the putter head. Worked great.

[BC MIST]

Question:

A good putting stroke sees (1) the putter ON the target line at impact, with (2) the face SQUARE and (3) the ball is contacted on the "sweet spot." Hitting off the sweet spot causes the ball to go off line a significant amount, while an error with the other two, passes very little error to the path of the putt. Therefore, golfers should spend the bulk of their practice time working on proper contact and much less on the other two. Does the laser device help improve centre of face contact?

[Powerdraw]

so BC, how do you learn then to swing the sweetspot? do you use pp3 (pressure felt at index finger aft of shaft)

[leftylucas]

Question:

Does the laser device help improve centre of face contact?

I absolutely agree that contact is the major point but in my case the laser showed me how offline I was and helped me make a set-up routine that would make me aim better. I am sure that aiming off-line did not help me in hitting the sweet spot either.

[Started2k3]

Question:

A good putting stroke sees (1) the putter ON the target line at impact, with (2) the face SQUARE and (3) the ball is contacted on the "sweet spot." Hitting off the sweet spot causes the ball to go off line a significant amount, while an error with the other two, passes very little error to the path of the putt. Therefore, golfers should spend the bulk of their practice time working on proper contact and much less on the other two. Does the laser device help improve centre of face contact?

My views:
(1) the putter ON the target line at impact - This is somewhat important because the path of the putter head will influence the initial direction. Square face with an in-to-out path will result in a very slight push - this is just physics. But I agree with you this is a very small effect.

(2) the face SQUARE - IMO this is the most important aspect. Open the clubface 1° with the clubhead going down the target path will result in a slightly less that 1° push - but for all intensive purposes this is almost a 1 to 1 relationship - again just physics.

(3) the ball is contacted on the "sweet spot". - I believe this becomes less important as the MOI of the putter head increases, because missing the sweet spot only results in some twisting of the clubhead. How much twisting occurs will depend on the MOI of the clubhead (mallet MOI > blade MOI) and how hard or soft the person grips the club (harder=less twisting).


Please don't be missled by my comment above. I completely agree with you, but I disagree with which one is the most important. Today I will test all these using my laser level and a straight (4-5ft putt) - for personal verification - and get back to you.

Does the laser device help improve centre of face contact?
Of course, but I think it would be folly to work on only one aspect of putting. It may be that you are naturally talented at the first two, so the latter is your Achilles heel of putting. Whereas someone else may find the sweet spot everytime but push because of the first two. I would also say that a person could get more feed back on their putting stroke in the first 2-3ft of a laser assisted putt than from a 2-3ft or longer unassisted putt, because the laser is telling the person what is perfectly straight.

Charles

[Started2k3]

Well I got back from my afternoon practice and here is what I found.

I found a line that was almost perfectly straight 5 ft putt - laser beam remained in the center of the ball except for the last 2" when the ball turned to the right by 1/4 of a ball.

Analysis of (1): I tried to have a square putter face with an in-to-out path and an out-to-in path - result - push or pull ... severity of push or pull depended on the size of the angle of putter head path to the target path.

Analysis of (2): Square putter path with open and closed clubface. Push or pull for the most part angle of openness = angle of push (and vice versa). Even small angles are huge the further away your target is. This effect was much worse that (1) because small misses in path were small misses left or right.

Analysis of (3): Square path, square face and varying impact position ... also tried this with three types of putters (2-ball, toe and heel weighted blade, mini putt style). Results varied depending on the type of putter used.
Mini-putt style - if I balanced this putter on my finger the face would be perfectly vertical. Hits off the sweet spot went straight, closer to the toe pushed, heel pulled, with the push being more pronounced than the pull.
Toe and heel weighted blade - if balanced as before the toe would droop but it would not point down but more of an angle. Hits off the sweet spot went straight, closer to the toe pushed, heel pulled, with the push being more pronounced than the pull. Also the pushes and pulls were a lot smaller in magnitude than the mini-putt syle putter.
2-ball - if balanced the clubface is horizontal. All hits went straight - or if they pushed or pulled I could not tell with the naked eye.

IMO:
(1) important, but can still make the putt even with noticable path errors.
(2) most important - miss this, you miss the putt
(3) important but depends on the MOI of the putter - higher the MOI the less this matters (it may be the balanced clubface but I didn't have a balanced blade style available).

Charles

[BC MIST]

IMO:
(1) important, but can still make the putt even with noticable path errors.
(2) most important - miss this, you miss the putt
(3) important but depends on the MOI of the putter - higher the MOI the less this matters (it may be the balanced clubface but I didn't have a balanced blade style available).

Love threads with some MEAT in them. Your results are very close to those of Dave Pelz

From Dave Pelz:
Putter Path - Only 20% of PP errors are passed on to the ball. Inside out or outside in, is RELATIVELY unimportant.

Face Angle - 90% of this error is passed onto the ball.

Impact Point - 95%* of this error is passed on to the ball
* assumes .25" off centre, 8' putt.

I use an Odyssey 2 Ball and have the great big Two Ball with the Saturn ring around it, ie., high MOI. While the high MOI one should be better for impact point problems, I don't find that it is.

My serious error is that I very often hit my putts toward the toe, sometimes exceeding .25". My path and face angle are fine, and I never worry about the path. During a typical round I will miss 1 to 4 putts just barely to the right edge of the hole and if I miss a short one left it is because I follow the ball with my shoulders. This problem is easily solved.

I am currently working very hard on my impact point problem. I have placed a strong MAGNET(like Pelz Teacher Clips?) on the toe end of the sweet spot so that my margin for error is approximately 1/16 of an inch. Anything that much off will send the putt under my work bench. With a couple of days practice I am stroking 23 of 25 putts inside the magnet, and not more that 1/8" toward the heel end. When I removed the magnet and made 25 putts using my Clear Key, all putts were within 1/8" of the sweet spot. Doing this on the course will mean that I will make most of the putts that I would formerly miss. This progress occurred over just 4 days and is very exciting to me as it's the putting that will lower my scores, more than anything else. BTW: I use impact tape for ALL of this practice. The other hugely positive sign is that using the Clear Key means that all 25 putts were stroked WITHOUT my consciously thinking about the stroke, but resulting in hitting the putt solidly. "It takes as long as it takes." Carey Mumford

So it sounds to me that the laser device will improve the face angle part of putting and using impact tape will show where contact is being made.

Lastly, most golfers have a sight error, that is, when they feel that they are aimed correctly, most are not and the error is usually to the right. I solved that problem by aiming my putter from behind the ball, straddling the line, and then walking around, gripping the club and then stroking it. Any aiming problems have to disappear this way.

[Started2k3]

Love threads with some MEAT in them. Your results are very close to those of Dave Pelz

From Dave Pelz:
Putter Path - Only 20% of PP errors are passed on to the ball. Inside out or outside in, is RELATIVELY unimportant.

Face Angle - 90% of this error is passed onto the ball.

Impact Point - 95%* of this error is passed on to the ball
* assumes .25" off centre, 8' putt.
.

It is so nice to be in good company, but I would have thought that the first two would have been 20% and 80% or 10% and 90% because they are in effect the same thing. The proportions above mean that an open face angle that is identical to the missed in-out path degree would not result in a push identical to this angle away from the target line ... make sense?

Is there any mention, by Pelz, of how many degrees off line the put is with a 1/4" off centre miss? This would be the actual way to quantify the importance of each component of putting.

I use an Odyssey 2 Ball and have the great big Two Ball with the Saturn ring around it, ie., high MOI. While the high MOI one should be better for impact point problems, I don't find that it is.

My serious error is that I very often hit my putts toward the toe, sometimes exceeding .25". My path and face angle are fine, and I never worry about the path. During a typical round I will miss 1 to 4 putts just barely to the right edge of the hole and if I miss a short one left it is because I follow the ball with my shoulders. This problem is easily solved.

I am currently working very hard on my impact point problem. I have placed a strong MAGNET(like Pelz Teacher Clips?) on the toe end of the sweet spot so that my margin for error is approximately 1/16 of an inch. Anything that much off will send the putt under my work bench. With a couple of days practice I am stroking 23 of 25 putts inside the magnet, and not more that 1/8" toward the heel end. When I removed the magnet and made 25 putts using my Clear Key, all putts were within 1/8" of the sweet spot. Doing this on the course will mean that I will make most of the putts that I would formerly miss. This progress occurred over just 4 days and is very exciting to me as it's the putting that will lower my scores, more than anything else. BTW: I use impact tape for ALL of this practice. The other hugely positive sign is that using the Clear Key means that all 25 putts were stroked WITHOUT my consciously thinking about the stroke, but resulting in hitting the putt solidly. "It takes as long as it takes." Carey Mumford

So it sounds to me that the laser device will improve the face angle part of putting and using impact tape will show where contact is being made.

Lastly, most golfers have a sight error, that is, when they feel that they are aimed correctly, most are not and the error is usually to the right. I solved that problem by aiming my putter from behind the ball, straddling the line, and then walking around, gripping the club and then stroking it. Any aiming problems have to disappear this way.

Bolded: Actually you would really like my technique of using the laser level because you can continuously practice set up with full knowledge of what is perfectly straight.

I have come to realize that if my putting stance is slightly open to the target I hit it straight, which fits with what you have said.

[BC MIST]

It is so nice to be in good company, but I would have thought that the first two would have been 20% and 80% or 10% and 90% because they are in effect the same thing. The proportions above mean that an open face angle that is identical to the missed in-out path degree would not result in a push identical to this angle away from the target line ... make sense?

Not yet. If the face angle is 3* open and at impact, the path is 3* from the inside, why would the result not be a straight push of 3*, assuming centre of percussion contact?

Is there any mention, by Pelz, of how many degrees off line the put is with a 1/4" off centre miss? This would be the actual way to quantify the importance of each component of putting.

This would be difficult to quantify because of the various weight distributions and putter axes. However, Pelz indicated that his 95%, soft statistic, came from 8' or greater putts, hit 1/4" off centre. This, his first book, was published in 1989 and his more recent "Putting Bible" would likely have more updated numbers. Also, in recent years there has been a proliferation of high MOI putters, and the 95% number would likely be a little lower.

I have come to realize that if my putting stance is slightly open to the target I hit it straight, which fits with what you have said.

By open I assume that you are referring to your feet. What is important is the alignment of your shoulders and if they, too, are open, them some compensating motion, a pushing action, would be necessary to maintain an online path. Also, f you use a "screen door" stroke, then ball position is of paramount importance, whereas if the stroke is straight back, straight through, ball position is not as important. I work on the latter.

[Started2k3]

Not yet. If the face angle is 3* open and at impact, the path is 3* from the inside, why would the result not be a straight push of 3*, assuming centre of percussion contact?

That is exactly what I was getting at .... however from your reference to Pelz ... 20% + 90% = 110% ... which would imply that your 3° example would actually result in a greater than 3° push. This is what I am saying is impossible ... the percentages in this case must add to 100% ... in this Pelz must be wrong, but probably updated in his new book (but I don't own it).

This would be difficult to quantify because of the various weight distributions and putter axes. However, Pelz indicated that his 95%, soft statistic, came from 8' or greater putts, hit 1/4" off centre. This, his first book, was published in 1989 and his more recent "Putting Bible" would likely have more updated numbers. Also, in recent years there has been a proliferation of high MOI putters, and the 95% number would likely be a little lower.

It would be nice to know, but I won't lose any sleep over it.

By open I assume that you are referring to your feet. What is important is the alignment of your shoulders and if they, too, are open, them some compensating motion, a pushing action, would be necessary to maintain an online path. Also, f you use a "screen door" stroke, then ball position is of paramount importance, whereas if the stroke is straight back, straight through, ball position is not as important. I work on the latter.

Yes my feet. No "screen door" for me ... straight back straight through.
As far as my shoulders go ... I don't know ... but right now I am mainly trying to leave my set up up to my subcon so I don't have to think about it (I am sure you can understand this).

Charles

[BC MIST]

That is exactly what I was getting at .... however from your reference to Pelz ... 20% + 90% = 110% ... which would imply that your 3° example would actually result in a greater than 3° push. This is what I am saying is impossible ... the percentages in this case must add to 100% ... in this Pelz must be wrong, but probably updated in his new book (but I don't own it).

Pelz tested the 3 variables "independently" of each other meaning that if he was testing path, the face angle was ALWAYS square and contact was ALWAYS made on the centre of percussion. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the path was 4* outside in, the face 5* open and contact 1 cm toward the toe. A gobbler? For several years when a member at Mississippi, I played with an older gentleman(70+), formerly a Quebec Amateur, Tunis, Kent kind of player, whose putting stroke was significantly outside in, and he almost NEVER missed anything inside 5'. His centre of, and square club face contact made him an excellent putter, inspite of the cut stroke.

Yes my feet. No "screen door" for me ... straight back straight through.
As far as my shoulders go ... I don't know ... but right now I am mainly trying to leave my set up up to my subcon so I don't have to think about it (I am sure you can understand this).

SB/ST is the best because it all but eliminates the inconsistent ball position that most golfers use, but it is a little more difficult to learn. Normally, an open stance means open shoulders and the SB/ST stroke assumes square shoulders. However, if the openness is subtle, it should not be a problem.

[Started2k3]

SB/ST is the best because it all but eliminates the inconsistent ball position that most golfers use, but it is a little more difficult to learn. Normally, an open stance means open shoulders and the SB/ST stroke assumes square shoulders. However, if the openness is subtle, it should not be a problem.

My openness is very subtle.