Controversy over at TGN

[Leftygolfer3]

I have a question for the fine forumites (is that even a word?) to the east. I know some of you here are also members at TGN and I'm sure if I post this on TGN it will just get deleted so...

Last night a thread was put up and an argument ensued as to whether it breached forum sponsorship rules and it ended with a moderator insulting a lot of people by saying that we had a "small town mentality". So some of us from small towns objected and asked for an apology - an apology that never came and the posts that requested the apology were deleted by the moderator that made the insulting comment. I also noticed today that the moderator in question at TGN is a member here that hasn't posted anything since 2006 - very curious indeed since he is from Ottawa.

Anyway, I guess my questions to you fine folks at OG is how would this have been handled over here? Would the offending moderator apologized and/or been made to apologize? Would this conflict of interest been allowed, i.e. would the moderator that made the offensive remark been allowed to make the call on the posts asking for the apology?

Also, said moderator has banned a couple of members recently for much less offensive remarks/comments - the double standard is absolutely ridiculous!

Things are going to h%ll in a handbasket over there and a lot of people are getting really pissed off.

[jeffc]

I think we are a kinder gentler bunch over here. I find the stuff that goes on over at TGN a bit of a circus. Dan runs a great site here and there is a real community here of great people who all love golf. Very little in terms of politics here. I have noticed a lot more Toronto people on this site as of late.....

[Leftygolfer3]

I think we are a kinder gentler bunch over here. I find the stuff that goes on over at TGN a bit of a circus. Dan runs a great site here and there is a real community here of great people who all love golf. Very little in terms of politics here. I have noticed a lot more Toronto people on this site as of late.....

I figured as much Jeff. The owners of TGN are really digging a hole for themselves - a hole so deep that there is going to be a mass exodus of members in the very near future.

I'm guessing that next year's Ryder Cup will involve OG vs. ???

[Kilroy]

1. Exclusive sponsor - Never gonna happen here.
2. Non-sponsors restricted from posting links - Never gonna happen here.
3. Site owners letting the volunteer mods take all the heat - Never gonna happen here.
4. A witchhunt like that one would be deleted outright. Talk about nasty and unfair accusations.
5. The mod in question would have either apologised for insulting the community or would no longer be a moderator. We all make mistakes. Man up and apologize.
6. I see he edited or removed the insult - probably for the best, but the apology should still be there, just a general "sorry if I offended anyone" No big deal.
7. Deleting posts requesting an apology would be overstepping privilages. He's basically sweeping his mstake under the rug. Not cool at all.

I too am appauled the state of the TGN foum and what it is turning into by virtue of the lack of proper moderation. Flame wars abound and true golf talk is discouraged in that you can't talk about non-sponsors product openly.

We have www.Toronto-Golf.ca It is growing slowly and as noted we are starting to see more Toronto folk here and we welcome them with open arms. Things are different here. Even clubmakers who don't want to support the site with an ad are allowed in. I always hope that some of them will support the suite by advertising, but I will not discourage them from enlightening us with expert information.

[Kilroy]

We can have our own cup between our Western members from Toronto & London and our Eastern members from Ottawa Gatineau and Kingston.

This however is not up to me. Geoff and the boys who run it will have to make that call.

[Kilroy]

By the way, do the owners of TGN ever post or even identify themselves? Is it one person or a group? They even have other people to sell the ads for them. Do they do anything at all?

[jvincent]

Once they reach BombSquadGolf territory you know they've gone too far.

Now is a good time to compliment the Dan and the mods for this site. They do a good job of keeping things smooth. I'm a mod on a different site and it's not as easy as some people think.

Of course we know Dan pays his mods well, which also helps.

[Kilroy]

They do get some perks, and I don't leave them hanging out to dry.

[spackler]

By the way, do the owners of TGN ever post or even identify themselves? Is it one person or a group? They even have other people to sell the ads for them. Do they do anything at all?

They did come out and identify themselves during another recent dust up. Mok, Queen of the Beach, EMS, and DKS_ at the very least. I think I am forgetting a couple. They definitely hang their mods out to dry there.

I also think Dan runs a great site here, he's always front and centre to take any heat, and he would never let things get that bad anyway. Part of it may also be that we're a smaller community here, lots of us get out golfing together and many have gotten to know each other quite well.

[foxman]

Once they reach BombSquadGolf territory you know they've gone too far.

Now is a good time to compliment the Dan and the mods for this site. They do a good job of keeping things smooth. I'm a mod on a different site and it's not as easy as some people think.

Of course we know Dan pays his mods well, which also helps.

Dan and the Mods do an excellent job and are great to deal with.Dan and the Mods always respond quick to any questions you have.Great job to all involved and keeping the site fun and always trying to improve.Best forum out there! Great job!

[Hacker]

I don't leave them hanging out to dry.

Worth more than any perk ever could be IMO

[Kilroy]

The task is thankless enough as it is. Without support from management it would really be awful. I can't imagine why anyone would want to be a mod there, perhaps it's a punnisment or a appointment achieved by losing a wager?

[Big Johnny69]

Worth more than any perk ever could be IMO

Very true. Dan will back us in a heartbeat or he'll also point out our mistakes as well. Couldn't ask for better than that.


I didn't post on TGN regarding this situation, but I'll give my point of view here of how I perceive things.

First off, I never would've used a term like that mod did. And if I did, and someone said they were offended I would apologize, and like Dan said "No bid deal". Secondly, the members over there are way too over-sensitive. If any of them have ever played any sport competitively (other than golf), I'm sure they've been called way worse than having a "small town mentality". And if that's the case, I'd hate to see their reaction to being called worse.

And as for the whole situation in the first place. It seemed like many members had a "hate on" for a specific member. Why this is, I do not know. But causing a comotion in the open forum is not the way to go about it. Just like here, TGN has a "Report a Bad Post" link. And whenever in doubt, the forum members should use it. This goes directly to mods and administrators who should address the situation immediately.

As a side note, I predicted this would've happened over at TGN when the sole sponsor idea was announced. I'm just shocked it took this long to come to a boiling point.

But I have to say, that site is just a mess right now. I can't believe it's gotten that way. It used to be a good site to visit. But now it's like a train wreck, you have to log in each day to see what's going down.

[Kilroy]

I think it has boiled a few times before. Exclusive sponsorship is a really bad idea and a recipe for hard feelings.

[Big Johnny69]

I think it has boiled a few times before. Exclusive sponsorship is a really bad idea and a recipe for hard feelings.

I agree, and I tried to point it out to them when this first came to light on TGN. But they didn't want to hear it. Too bad, could've saved them lots of headaches. From what I gather, they've lost one sponsor already, and the sole sponsor is thinking of pulling the plug as well.

[Kilroy]

It will be interesting to see if either one decides to advertise on our Toronto site.

[Leftygolfer3]

First off, I never would've used a term like that mod did. And if I did, and someone said they were offended I would apologize, and like Dan said "No bid deal". Secondly, the members over there are way too over-sensitive. If any of them have ever played any sport competitively (other than golf), I'm sure they've been called way worse than having a "small town mentality". And if that's the case, I'd hate to see their reaction to being called worse.

The thing is Geoff, I was one of those offended and for more than a few reasons. For one, the moderator that made that statement has banned two good members in the last few months, one for using the term "people" and the other for posting a poll asking if moderators should be voted on. It seems that what is enforced for the membership does not apply to the moderators - thus the double standard.

Yes, I have played competitive sports all my life - hockey, baseball, football and volleyball mostly and yes I've been called a LOT worse and said worse myself in the heat of competition. However, it was a level playing field and no one was punished for what they said. I was a goalie and trust me, I said just about anything possible to throw a guy off his game but I didn't get penalized and neither did they for whatever they said in return.

Then when I pointed out my offence to the comment, as did others, we were ignored and had our posts deleted and swept under the carpet. The only thing that one of the invisible "owners" of the site did was remove the offensive comment.

An apology has yet to be issued and I'm really not expecting one to be given now.

[Big Johnny69]

The thing is Geoff, I was one of those offended and for more than a few reasons. For one, the moderator that made that statement has banned two good members in the last few months, one for using the term "people" and the other for posting a poll asking if moderators should be voted on. It seems that what is enforced for the membership does not apply to the moderators - thus the double standard.

Yes, I have played competitive sports all my life - hockey, baseball, football and volleyball mostly and yes I've been called a LOT worse and said worse myself in the heat of competition. However, it was a level playing field and no one was punished for what they said. I was a goalie and trust me, I said just about anything possible to throw a guy off his game but I didn't get penalized and neither did they for whatever they said in return.

Then when I pointed out my offence to the comment, as did others, we were ignored and had our posts deleted and swept under the carpet. The only thing that one of the invisible "owners" of the site did was remove the offensive comment.

An apology has yet to be issued and I'm really not expecting one to be given now.

Being upset about a double standard, and being offended are two way different things in my books. But I understand your frustration with the whole thing, and perhaps if some people took a step back they'd realize they are more angry with the double standard than actually being offended. In my books, that wasn't much of an insult. But if people are being banned/suspended for less than that, then I could justify being upset. But offended.... I know I wouldn't.

And I wouldn't hold your breath for an apology. You basically have to call the ownership out over there to get any type of response from them. They leave their mods out to the wolves, which makes it seem like the mods are running the show.

[Kilroy]

one for using the term "people" and the other for posting a poll asking if moderators should be voted on.

People? There has to be more to it than that


If someone started a poll like that here it would not be deleted. Vote all you want.

I hand pick my mods based on their attitude, enthusiasm and willingness to be involved at this level. A couple have volunteered and passed the muster but for the most part I approach them asking if they'd like to be a mod. A mod has to have the right disposition and a thick skin. I would not accept someone as a mod because the users voted them in. But why delete the poll? Do they have a rule against discussing mods or forum policy? If not what grounds could there be for deletion?

[Big Johnny69]

People? There has to be more to it than that


If someone started a poll like that here it would not be deleted. Vote all you want.

I hand pick my mods based on their attitude, enthusiasm and willingness to be involved at this level. A couple have volunteered and passed the muster but for the most part I approach them asking if they'd like to be a mod. A mod has to have the right disposition and a thick skin. I would not accept someone as a mod because the users voted them in. But why delete the poll? Do they have a rule against discussing mods or forum policy? If not what grounds could there be for deletion?

From what I understood, the poll was created because some of the members didn't like how some of the mods went about their work. So a poll was started that the slate should be wiped clean and the mods should be voted in. But questioning TGN policy, regardless of what it is, is not permitted over there. Period!

[Kilroy]

Quashing a rebellion. Too bad there are so many there.

Input from the users is a good thing though. I have refined many a policy here based on givng the users what they want as much as possible while maintaining my own vision of what the site should be. If you don't listen at all they will rebel. That's no mystery.

[Big Johnny69]

Quashing a rebellion. Too bad there are so many there.

Input from the users is a good thing though. I have refined many a policy here based on givng the users what they want as much as possible while maintaining my own vision of what the site should be. If you don't listen at all they will rebel. That's no mystery.

I agree with you Dan. But they run a different type of ship over there.

[Hacker]

I agree with you Dan. But they run a different type of ship over there.

Sounds like the folks running said ship have eye patches and steel hooks for hands.........

[Kilroy]

Hmmm. My lovely wife just pointed something out to me. I said "The task is thankless enough as it is." yet we are recieving props for doing it in this thread. It's not so "thankless" after all.

So... You're welcome!

[big mac]

I won't even bother to go and look for the thread because I will probably loose my cool and say something I will regret. The mods here are top-notch and most of the time --95% at least I agree with how they "ref"--you will never get to 100%--that's life. Yeah Dan runs a tight ship here and that's one of the reasons that makes the site good and everyone has a good time regardless of the different views etc. There is always room for people from small towns here. Just because they are from small towns does not mean they have small attitudes. Wasn't Superman from Smallville and created in Canada?

[Indio]

Hmmm. My lovely wife just pointed something out to me. I said "The task is thankless enough as it is." yet we are recieving props for doing it in this thread. It's not so "thankless" after all.

So... You're welcome!

No I think you were right the first time Dan (apologies to Agent99 ) The task thess Mods have keeping everyone in line and 'happy' is no simple task, especially in a couple of the forums like Sports or Gneral Golf since there are some pretty opinionated people in here (not saying its bad ) and IMHO everyone of the Mods in here do an absolutely masterful job of 'keeping the peace' You could not have assembled a better group!

[Big Johnny69]

No I think you were right the first time Dan (apologies to Agent99 ) The task thess Mods have keeping everyone in line and 'happy' is no simple task, especially in a couple of the forums like Sports or Gneral Golf since there are some pretty opinionated people in here (not saying its bad ) and IMHO everyone of the Mods in here do an absolutely masterful job of 'keeping the peace' You could not have assembled a better group!

I have to agree with you Bob. I thoroughly enjoy moderating with these guys. A great bunch indeed. And one way we keep it that way, is when Dan is looking for a new mod he comes to us and asks us our opinion. It's nice to see he values our decision as well.

[PEI Golfing]

Did not see the quote, so can not comment on what the Moderator said or did not say regarding "small town" mentality........Understood from reading the TGN site that the moderator in question was El Tigre.

El Tigre listed his location as Ottawa and did "upset" a few GTA people at times when he defended the Ottawa quality golf courses which were being "ripped" by just about everybody on the Toronto forum.
One poster even said "Oh well most of us are in the GTA......sucks to be u.......moving right along"
El Tigre's response was "TGN is not an exclusive club open only to people who live in the GTA - we welcome members from anywhere.
This thread is supposed to be about the top 50 Golf Courses in Ontario, not where most of TGN's members are located."
http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/showp...8&postcount=51

So in summary there may have been some biased feeling building towards this Moderator.........One would hope not because he is from Ottawa.........

[Indio]

I have to agree with you Bob. I thoroughly enjoy moderating with these guys. A great bunch indeed. And one way we keep it that way, is when Dan is looking for a new mod he comes to us and asks us our opinion. It's nice to see he values our decision as well.

But then again on the other hand, the FANTASTIC members here also make your job much easier As someone said earlier, Dan has not just built a website for golf, he has put together a community here in this 'small town'

[Kilroy]

I must agree. The members make the forum, not the mods. Kudos to you for being better behaved than those folks.