Barry Bonds Indicted

[Indio]

CNN has just reported that Barry Bonds has been indicted on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice by a Grand Jury. He is also now under investigation for Money Laundering

Another big name out of sports?

[fundonny]

OH BOB, if that's true you just made my month!!!! Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy!!! He stands for everything that's wrong in sports.

[Indio]

OH BOB, if that's true you just made my month!!!! Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy!!! He stands for everything that's wrong in sports.

Well, it said it has confirmed that a federal grand jury has indicted him ! Enjoy the rest of your month, apparently its all down hill from here

[fundonny]

LOL, nice!

I wonder what they'll do with that homerun ball. I love the fact the dude it had it branded with an asterix! Fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sillywilly]

oh man, I don't understand this. Why aren't you allowed to lie under oath? Do you just expect people to admit what they did? That is what evidence is for. If you commit a crime you should be able to lie about it. I know you can take the 5th but that is the same as admitting you did it. I think they should take all his records away but not ban him from baseball

[Hacker]

Another glaring example of what is wrong with the good 'ol USA

[Kilroy]

oh man, I don't understand this. Why aren't you allowed to lie under oath?

You can't be serious. Look up "oath" in the dictionary.

I'll save you the trouble...

An oath (from Anglo-Saxon a&#240 is either a promise or a statement of fact calling upon something or someone that the oath maker considers sacred, usually a god, as a witness to the binding nature of the promise or the truth of the statement of fact. To swear is to take an oath.

[PEI Golfing]

Here is the story from Yahoo sports
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns

Could face prison............This could be a great year..............get O.J. first and then Barry.................

[Paulio]

oh man, I don't understand this. Why aren't you allowed to lie under oath? Do you just expect people to admit what they did? That is what evidence is for. If you commit a crime you should be able to lie about it. I know you can take the 5th but that is the same as admitting you did it. I think they should take all his records away but not ban him from baseball

If they did this he would not play. He is one of those guys who REALLY cares about personal stats and the record books. His love of the game would not have him stay.

[sensfan63]

Here is the story from Yahoo sports
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns

Could face prison............This could be a great year..............get O.J. first and then Barry.................

The fact that you equate OJ and Barry Bonds shows just how much the media has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes, trying to make Barry the Big Bad Villain while letting everyone else off. Why is he so vilified, yet Mark McGwire and Rafael Palmeiro and Ken Caminiti (God rest his soul) and Roger Clemens are all let off the hook? I don't get it...

If he did steroids, fine, prove it, then go get everyone else who did it. Cause he's not the only one, not even close.

[sillywilly]

I understand what OATH means, I still stand by what I think. OBVIOUSLY someone who is charged or being questioned about something or get him charged with something is going to lie about it. In bonds case if he took the 5th or admitted to taking roids, there goes 10s of millions of dollars for him. I can't expecpt him to take the 5th or or tell the truth in this situation... and I hate the guy as much as anyone! I hate cheaters. Just wondering why the law works this way

[jonf]

I understand what OATH means, I still stand by what I think. OBVIOUSLY someone who is charged or being questioned about something or get him charged with something is going to lie about it. In bonds case if he took the 5th or admitted to taking roids, there goes 10s of millions of dollars for him. I can't expecpt him to take the 5th or or tell the truth in this situation... and I hate the guy as much as anyone! I hate cheaters. Just wondering why the law works this way

That's why the fifith amendment exists. Nobody can be forced to give testimony that incriminates them. BUT, you can't lie. You can do what Mark McQuire did any time....that is, not comment on the issue. But you can't lie. (This is also why very few defendants ever take the stand at trial).

[sillywilly]

That's why the fifith amendment exists. Nobody can be forced to give testimony that incriminates them. BUT, you can't lie. You can do what Mark McQuire did any time....that is, not comment on the issue. But you can't lie. (This is also why very few defendants ever take the stand at trial).

Before I respond, had big mac said yes I did steriods, what would have happened to him? Were they going to charge him with something, if so what?

[larry]

Before I respond, had big mac said yes I did steriods, what would have happened to him? Were they going to charge him with something, if so what?

If he had told the truth he might have got suspended by the league but nothing legal. But lying at a Congressional hearing is a no no. He could end up in jail for a long time.

[PEI Golfing]

If he did steroids, fine, prove it, then go get everyone else who did it. Cause he's not the only one, not even close.

You do not go to prison for taking steroids.
You go to prison for lying under oath...........

[sillywilly]

Ok, thanks.

How can anyone expect anyone else to tell the trurh or even take the 5th in that situation. I understand MM did it and good for him for not lieing but by lieing he has pretty much ended his life in baseball. He probably won't be able to work in the sport. He won't be able to cash in on the name he made for himself because taking the 5th is pretty much the same as admitting guilt in the eye of the public. How can congress honestly expect a player to tell the truth with so much to lose? If the only three options are Thurh, 5th, lie... thruth and 5th close you 10s of millions of dollars. Thats all I'm trying to say

I know you go to jail for lying under oath.. I just don't think you should You go to jail for killing someone, raping someone, stealing things... lieing? comon! thats just SILLY

[jonf]

Ok, thanks.

How can anyone expect anyone else to tell the trurh or even take the 5th in that situation. I understand MM did it and good for him for not lieing but by lieing he has pretty much ended his life in baseball. He probably won't be able to work in the sport. He won't be able to cash in on the name he made for himself because taking the 5th is pretty much the same as admitting guilt in the eye of the public. How can congress honestly expect a player to tell the truth with so much to lose? If the only three options are Thurh, 5th, lie... thruth and 5th close you 10s of millions of dollars. Thats all I'm trying to say

I know you go to jail for lying under oath.. I just don't think you should You go to jail for killing someone, raping someone, stealing things... lieing? comon! thats just SILLY

What if you're lying to cover for someone who killed or raped someone?

[sillywilly]

What if you're lying to cover for someone who killed or raped someone?

Good point I suppose, the law can't have any grey areas I suppose. One rule for everyone. moral to story is don't cheat!!!!!!!

[PEI Golfing]

What if you're lying to cover for someone who killed or raped someone?

Jonf,

Have you thought about applying for law school......?? I am being serious here.
Have seen in many of your answers a certain style and well thought out defense (most of the time.....) which reminds me of a number of lawyers I know.

Just a thought if you are wondering what is the next stage in your life.

[jonf]

Hahah. THanks. I agree....I would be pretty good at it. I have considered it a few times. Actually, in high school I was almost certain I wanted to be a lawyer. The only thing is, from what I have heard, law is a lifestyle. As in, being a lawyer goes well beyond the 9-5, takes an incredible amount of time, etc. (which isn't exactly what I'm looking for). Also, this is going to sound like a lazy answer, but it seems like there would be so much busy work / research, with very little of the court time that I would actually find interesting. But it's still out there as a possibility.

[mpare]

You can't be serious. You're thought processes are a constant source of amazement to me. Thank goodness you aren't responsible for drafting criminal justice policies. I can see it now. Under your Al Capone inspired guidance, the law would state that you could be subpoenaed to testify. However, once on the stand the witness could take the 5th (why bother, if you can lie with impunity), or tell the truth, which only a fool would do according to you since the state could never have recourse against the witness for having lied under oath. Which option would these pillars of society gleefully choose? Your approach would just about eliminate any degree of public confidence and respect in the administration of justice.

I understand what OATH means, I still stand by what I think. OBVIOUSLY someone who is charged or being questioned about something or get him charged with something is going to lie about it. In bonds case if he took the 5th or admitted to taking roids, there goes 10s of millions of dollars for him. I can't expecpt him to take the 5th or or tell the truth in this situation... and I hate the guy as much as anyone! I hate cheaters. Just wondering why the law works this way

[Golfbum]

Another glaring example of what is wrong with the good 'ol USA

Uhhhhhhhhh let's not forget Ben Johnson! It is just not USA that has a problem, it is the entire world.

[LobWedge]

Hahah. THanks. I agree....I would be pretty good at it. I have considered it a few times. Actually, in high school I was almost certain I wanted to be a lawyer. The only thing is, from what I have heard, law is a lifestyle. As in, being a lawyer goes well beyond the 9-5, takes an incredible amount of time, etc. (which isn't exactly what I'm looking for). Also, this is going to sound like a lazy answer, but it seems like there would be so much busy work / research, with very little of the court time that I would actually find interesting. But it's still out there as a possibility.

Not necesarily Jon. My wife has had her LLB for years but still hasn't done her articles, and may never do. Sometimes she says yes, sometimes no. Regardless, her LLB has opened so many career doors for her. You don't have to be a lawyer to make use of a law degree.

[sillywilly]

Mike, it makes sense to me. If you can take the 5th to avoid Incriminating yourself... what if taking the 5th and telling the truth do the same dammage to certain parts of the persons life? In this case, his career and earing power after his career is over. Barry was told he wouldn't be charged with any drug charges if he told the truth. Telling the truth and taking 5th in this case would have net him the same result... the loss of 10's of millions of dollars. I'm not saying EVERYONE should be allowed to lie under oath. Just the guy being charged with something or the guy who has a lot to lose if he tells the truth. A witness has nothing to gain or lose so they must be forced. But to expect a guy who is going to lose millions if he tells the truth or takes the 5th... doesn't seem right. Let him lie, build your case against him and lock him up if you can

[Chieflongtee]

Don't get me wrong I don't like Bonds and his persona. He is facing 30 years behind bars for alledgely lying under oath. Very steep imo. When anyone enters a non guilty plea under oath aren't most of them lying?

[mpare]

If I understand you correctly, your sympathies lie with the drug enhanced pro. You want to ensure that he is protected from the financial consequences of his cheating, by not having to take the 5th, from which his sponsors and the public might draw unfavourable inferences. His salvation, then, would lie in agreeing to tell the truth, and then proceeding to lie under oath. Fortunately, that isn't the way the law works. If it did, it would simply countenance lying under oath under any circumstances. One could hardly draw a meaningful distinction, under your approach, between lying while testifying during an inquiry, a grand jury, or a trial.

The legal system attempts to reasonably balance the rights of the citizenry and those of the state. The state cannot force you to incriminate yourself, but conversely, if you agree to tell the truth, then you are expected to do so. If you lie, then the law seeks to maintain the public interest by ensuring that those who perjure themselves are held accountable.

Your sympathies are misplaced. You want to insulate the cheat from the financial consequences of his cheating. There is a much easier way to do this. Don't cheat. Your strategy would effectively turn the justice system into a haven for liars. Luckily, neither lawmakers nor the public feel any need to do that.

[mpare]

The entry of a not guilty plea does not constitute lying under oath. Firstly, and this is getting techincal I admit, an accused is not under oath when he or his counsel enters the plea. Secondly, and more to the point, the not guilty plea simply signifies that the accused is not acknowledging his guilt with respect to the charge or charges against him. Once that plea is entered, the state has to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. Keep in mind as well, that the accused is clothed in the presumption of innocence until the prosecution has proven its case to the satisfaction of the judge, or the jury, in a judge and jury trial.

Don't get me wrong I don't like Bonds and his persona. He is facing 30 years behind bars for alledgely lying under oath. Very steep imo. When anyone enters a non guilty plea under oath aren't most of them lying?

[Chieflongtee]

Why is Pamero not indicted? As far as I am concerned he did not kill anyone nor raped anyone to my knowledge.

[mpare]

Whether or not an individual has committed other crimes is irrelevant to whether or not he may be guilty of perjury. I have no doubt that there are laws in the USA that make it an offence to do so. This is well-known and, I would suspect, near universal prohibition. If you don't want to be convicted of that offence, don't lie under oath. It's as simple as that.

Why is Pamero not indicted? As far as I am concerned he did not kill anyone nor raped anyone to my knowledge.

[fundonny]

mpare, not that I'm speaking for silly, but I think the point of his posting was it's very naive to believe that someone will respect that oath if he/she is guilty and the result would be negative. People lie to protect themselves, that's human nature. Survival.