marking the ball on the green

[Big Duffer]

in a game a few weeks ago I went to mark my ball which was about one foot from the hole.. my playing partner was just off the green.. he asked that I not mark the ball. his idea was that if his put was off line, it might hit my ball and perhaps fall in the hole or otherwise slow down. is he allowed to tell me not to mark my ball if he is not yet on the green?

[jvincent]

Covered by Rule 22, shown below.

22-1. Ball Assisting Play

Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that a ball might assist any other player, he may:

(a) lift the ball if it is his ball, or
(b) have any other ball lifted.

A ball lifted under this Rule must be replaced (see Rule 20-3). The ball must not be cleaned unless it lies on the putting green (see Rule 21).

In stroke play, a player required to lift his ball may play first rather than lift the ball.

In stroke play, if the Committee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball that might assist any other player, they are disqualified.

22-2. Ball Interfering with Play

Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that the ball of another player might interfere with his play, he may have it lifted.

A ball lifted under this Rule must be replaced (see Rule 20-3). The ball must not be cleaned unless it lies on the putting green (see Rule 21).

In stroke play, a player required to lift his ball may play first rather than lift the ball.

Note: Except on the putting green, a player may not lift his ball solely because he considers that it might interfere with the play of another player. If a player lifts his ball without being asked to do so, he incurs a penalty of one stroke for a breach of Rule 18-2a, but there is no additional penalty under Rule 22.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.

[Big Duffer]

I'm a little thick..

the rule starts with..

Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that a ball might assist any other player, he may:

(a) lift the ball if it is his ball, or
(b) have any other ball lifted.


and ends with

Note: Except on the putting green, a player may not lift his ball solely because he considers that it might interfere with the play of another player.

so they are saying you cannot mark your ball on the green just because you think it will be interferred with? if its a quarter inch from the hole, it would be wise of your opponent to ask you not to mark it..

[jvincent]

The note is used to clarify the situation when your ball is OFF the green. On the green you are allowed to mark you ball at any time.

The situation you describe is covered by the part in 22-1 about agreeing to not mark a ball that would provide assistance.

It's a bit of a technicality but if you simply don't mark it and your FC then hits his ball it's OK. It's only a problem if the two of you AGREE to not mark the ball for the purpose of providing assistance.

In the situation you describe, where he asks you to not mark it, would get you both in trouble in a tournament if you did so.

[BC MIST]

As an aside to the above question, if you are playing a match AND if your ball created a ball mark close enough to the hole that your opponent's ball may hit it and deflect into the hole, you are NOT allowed to repair your ball mark, or any other for that matter. The person whose turn it is to play, has complete control over what happens on the green, except that you can mark and lift your ball.

[sillywilly]

what?? If my ball makes a huge mark on the green near the hole and my FC isn't on the green yet I can't repair the ball mark? I've never heard that before. When you say "or any other" do you mean or any other ball mark I make even if its not close to the hole or do you mean any other ball marks close to the hole even if they aren't mine. What is the purpose of this rule?

Is he allowed to come and fix the ball mark?

[Big Duffer]

jvincent. thanks for clarifying that.. I guess I really am thick. didn't read it close enough.. the guy I was playing with suggested that because he was off the green it was his perogative as to whether the ball in marked.. it seemed odd at the time but he is a bit of a rules officianato.. I'll be sure to bring that up.. thanks again!! this board is always great for getting a ruling

[AAA]

As an aside to the above question, if you are playing a match AND if your ball created a ball mark close enough to the hole that your opponent's ball may hit it and deflect into the hole, you are NOT allowed to repair your ball mark, or any other for that matter. The person whose turn it is to play, has complete control over what happens on the green, except that you can mark and lift your ball.

What rule is that ?

[Kilroy]

suggested that because he was off the green it was his perogative as to whether the ball in marked.. it seemed odd at the time but he is a bit of a rules officianato..

Not so much

[BC MIST]

What rule is that ?

(1) 1-2 "A player or caddie must not take any action to influence the position or the movement of the ball."

(2) Decision 16-1c/2

(3) I also brought this topic up today, at our weekly Rules of Golf discussion group at which there are several Level 4 officials, some of whom have officiated at RCGA and major provincial tournaments, and there was confirmation of the above AND that this also applies to stroke play. Simply put, if there is a ball mark, loose impediments that may have a positive influence on the ball of the golfer who is away, his fellow competitors are NOT permitted to repair or remove such. If they do, they are penalized 2 in stroke play and loss of hole in match..

My thoughts about this centre around the "protect the field" concept because you, in another group, may not have the same benefit from the BM or LI, that I may have in another. I was overruled.

[Big Johnny69]

(1) 1-2 "A player or caddie must not take any action to influence the position or the movement of the ball."

(2) Decision 16-1c/2

(3) I also brought this topic up today, at our weekly Rules of Golf discussion group at which there are several Level 4 officials, some of whom have officiated at RCGA and major provincial tournaments, and there was confirmation of the above AND that this also applies to stroke play. Simply put, if there is a ball mark, loose impediments that may have a positive influence on the ball of the golfer who is away, his fellow competitors are NOT permitted to repair or remove such. If they do, they are penalized 2 in stroke play and loss of hole in match..

My thoughts about this centre around the "protect the field" concept because you, in another group, may not have the same benefit from the BM or LI, that I may have in another. I was overruled.

So the rules of golf are telling you not to fix your pitch marks??

[BC MIST]

So the rules of golf are telling you not to fix your pitch marks??

Obviously not! But while very remote, they may have some influence on WHEN you fix ball marks, regardless of who made them.

There may be some other logical reason behind having this rule, but the obvious question to me is, "Why should your opponent or fellow competitor be allowed to have some influence on the line of your putt, without permission? The rule prevents this from happening.

[Big Johnny69]

So from now on I shouldn't repair any pitch marks until everyone on the green has holed out, unless it's not on anyone's line? Correct?

[AAA]

But it may be on their line coming back if they overshoot first time

[AAA]

[quote=BC MIST;216597
(2) Decision 16-1c/2[/quote]

Thanks, I had missed that.

[Big Johnny69]

But it may be on their line coming back if they overshoot first time

Does someone's "line" not constitute past the hole as well?

[gbower]

Just ask them if they want it fixed or not and you won't have a problem. If they say no leave it.

[BC MIST]

Just ask them if they want it fixed or not and you won't have a problem. If they say no leave it.

Gerry frequently asks me if I want his ball mark, which is always closer to the hole than mine, repaired. I say "No," because when he uses his divot repair tool, he raises the ground around the ball mark and then walks away leaving this big lump of turf that may stop my ball. If I knew that he was trying to help deflect my ball into the hole I would have him disqualified, but knowing him, he's using this as psychological warfare to try to throw my off my game. I can do my own gardening, thanks.

[BC MIST]

Does someone's "line" not constitute past the hole as well?

No.

The concept of "thru line" was popularized by Danielle Amacapanne a few years back, when her's was stepped on by a naive Michelle Wie, in an LPGA tournament. It is proper etiquette to stay away from the thru line if others have not yet putted.

I have learned that reading the definitions solve a lot of rules misunderstandings.

[KickerOfElves]

No.

The concept of "thru line" was popularized by Danielle Amacapanne a few years back, when her's was stepped on by a naive Michelle Wie, in an LPGA tournament. It is proper etiquette to stay away from the thru line if others have not yet putted.

I have learned that reading the definitions solve a lot of rules misunderstandings.

Which makes sense...it might be etiquette but according to the rules what would be the "thru line"? Well if the ball missed cleanly and only went X number of inches past the hole (didn't deviate due to slope of the green) then ok, that would be relatively easy to determine.

What happens if the ball lips out and goes 45 or 90* one way or another?