another drop question

[sillywilly]

I'm not sure why I can't seem to get this right but let me tell you what I think and you tell me if this right.

I'm taking my approach shot and the ball hits the green and bounces off into the water BEHIND the green which is staked so its a hazard. This is directly behind the green.

Senerio Two: I'm taking my approach shot and the ball clears the water hazard infront of the green and kicks backwards back into the hazard. WHere is the drop?

I for some reason can't get it out of my head that I can't drop closer to the hole but in both these cases if you dropped within 2 club lengths you would be closer to the hole. I understand that it may be possible to keep the hazard between you and the flag in the second example, but maybe not in the first. Can someone please explain this to me?

[jvincent]

What colour are the stakes marking the hazards. The answers will be different if it is a lateral hazard (red stakes) than if it is a normal hazard (yellow stakes).

[AAA]

The two clublength option is only available for a lateral water hazard (ie red stakes). But the ball can never be dropped nearer the hole, so the option isn't always available.

[sillywilly]

I'm not sure... How would it be different? If it was yellow or red either way you can't drop closer to the hole so what do you do? Or and I not thinking this out right

Lets go with red

[jvincent]

If it's red stakes you can drop withing two club lengths of the point of entry once you aren't closer to the hole.

As AAA pointed out this isn't always possible depeding on the flag position, shape of the green/hazard.

In that case you have to use one of the other options available for a lateral.

[Martin B]

Dropping from a lateral hazard that is behind or beside the green can be difficult, but it usually can be done. Picture a line straight from the point where it crossed the hazard to the hole, then picture another line perpendicular to it, which intersects the point where it entered the hazard. (Sort of a T) Chances are there will be a tiny strip, perhaps only an inch or two wide, that's outside the hazard but no closer to the hole. You can drop there. If the ball rolls into the hazard or closer to the hole, you re-drop. If it happens again, you can place the ball in that tiny area.

The other option (for red or yellow stated) is to go back and hit from where you played your last shot.

[AAA]

I'm taking my approach shot and the ball hits the green and bounces off into the water BEHIND the green which is staked so its a hazard. This is directly behind the green.

Senerio Two: I'm taking my approach shot and the ball clears the water hazard infront of the green and kicks backwards back into the hazard. WHere is the drop?

I for some reason can't get it out of my head that I can't drop closer to the hole but in both these cases if you dropped within 2 club lengths you would be closer to the hole. I understand that it may be possible to keep the hazard between you and the flag in the second example, but maybe not in the first. Can someone please explain this to me?

It is unusual for the water hazards in either of these examples to be marked as lateral water hazards. Laterals are normally parallel (ie lateral) to the line of play.
In the situations described the basic requirement of the rule is that the hazard must be (re)negotiated with the next stroke. So in both cases the drop point is on the side of the hazard futher from the the hole, regardless of which side the ball last entered the hazard.

The concept of a lateral is hazard is that (as it says in the definition) it is impossible or impracticable to cross the the far side to play the ball. Further, the additional option of playing from the opposite side from which it entered is to allow for the situation where the ball crosses right over the lwh to the far side from the fairway and then bounces back into the lwh. It may be impossible to get to the far side so the player is permitted to drop on the near side.
I believe Pebble Beach is a good example of the reason for being able to drop on the near side. The 'far side' is in Hawaii.

[sillywilly]

Ok, a lateral hazard no problem. It runs // to the shot so thats easy enough. You can just come out and back 2 clublengths and you should be fine. I'm still confused about the red stakes. So, if I find my point of entry and pull the ball... draw a line from there to the flag and then drop 2 club lengths to the left or the right (whichever is possible) then I should be no closer to the hole and able to drop my balls. If this is not possible then I can go back to where the first shot was original shot was taken from. Sometimes the stakes start a foot or two before the actual water. Would I be allowed to drop a ball behind the stakes but ahead of the water? Obviously I wouldn't be allowed to ground the club.

[AAA]

No, the line between the stakes is the margin of the hazard (unless a Local Rule says otherwise). So behind the stakes is in the hazard.