How good is Tavares????

[sillywilly]

I heard on TSN that this kid score 100+ goals this season or next season!! That is a very high number, I couldn't imagine anyone doing that in any competitive league. How good is this guy? When is he due to be drafted into the NHL? Is this guy better than Gretz, mario or crosby when they were his age?

[Fallys0820]

He beat Gretzky's record last year for goals in a season by a rookie. He's trying to get into the draft this year, however his birthday is 2 weeks after the cut off date, so he'll probably be eligible for the 2009 draft.

A friend's cousin plays for the Generals (Matt Seegmiller (sp?)) on defence, so I've gone to see a couple of games when the Gens played the 67s. The last 7.5 minutes of the 2nd period, he played all of them. He was on the PK for 4 mins and then just stayed on the ice for the last 3.5. Granted, it didn't look like the coach was trying to get him off the ice.

The biggest problem with Tavares is that he is good. The Generals have a good team in spite of Tavares. But, the guys keep trying to shovel the puck to him constantly and at the detriment of possibly having a great shot themselves.

Great players are supposed to make everyone else better. I think when he does get into the NHL, it'll be a real shock to his system. Don't get me wrong, he's incredibly talented, but anyone would be when you sit infront of the net lol.

Fally
aka Scott

[mberube]

I heard yesterday that the Leafs are trying to sign him with their farm team in the AHL. Giving him the biggest contract possible in the AHL. Tavares would then be allowed to not take part in the draft. The leafs would then have the right to sign him with the big team without him being drafted. Cleaver move if that is legal.

I had no idea that this was possible. If so why didn’t any team try this with Crosby or Oveschkin who were both phenomes their pre draft season?

Mike

[Indio]

I heard yesterday that the Leafs are trying to sign him with their farm team in the AHL. Giving him the biggest contract possible in the AHL. Tavares would then be allowed to not take part in the draft. The leafs would then have the right to sign him with the big team without him being drafted. Cleaver move if that is legal.

I had no idea that this was possible. If so why didn’t any team try this with Crosby or Oveschkin who were both phenomes their pre draft season?

Mike

I heard that on SprtsNet last night and it just doesn't make sense. They guys didn't do a good job in explaining what it meant or what they had to do so I am still not sure how it would work and what if anything it would cost them.

[Hacker]

I heard on TSN that this kid score 100+ goals this season or next season!! That is a very high number, I couldn't imagine anyone doing that in any competitive league. How good is this guy? When is he due to be drafted into the NHL? Is this guy better than Gretz, mario or crosby when they were his age?

But can he play scrabble??

[mberube]

But can he play scrabble??

The only thing he needs to know is how to play hockey and count $$$$$!

[spackler]

I heard that on SprtsNet last night and it just doesn't make sense. They guys didn't do a good job in explaining what it meant or what they had to do so I am still not sure how it would work and what if anything it would cost them.

Because the AHL has no transfer agreement with the NHL, much like the Russian league, the theory was that they could sign him to the Marlies and then extract some draft picks or $$$ compensation from whichever NHL team drafted him. They wouldn't be able to transfer him to the Leafs though as his NHL rights would be separate from his AHL rights.

Problem is, the same age rules apply in the AHL as NHL so he's not eligible to sign with them next year anyway. The whole point of Tavares signing with the AHL would be to play in a better league for good $$$ if the NHL won't let him in. If that's not possible, I doubt he'd do anything but go straight to the NHL in 09.

[Indio]

Thanks Spackler, that makes more sense. Now lets howe the TSN guys learn this for the show tonight, they left a lot of people with the impression that he would be able to play for Toronto in 09 if they signed him to an HL contract this year.

[Hacker]

The only thing he needs to know is how to play hockey and count $$$$$!

I hope he's taken out a big insurance policy.......2009 is still a long way away and he (like every other athlete) is just one hit/fall/accident/etc. away from never playing again and not being able to cash in on all of that talent

[mberube]

He beat Gretzky's record last year for goals in a season by a rookie.
Fally
aka Scott

Not true he scored 45 goals his rookie season. He beat Gretz total goals in one season in the OHL by 2 with a total of 72 in his second season. Gretz did that during his rookie year. Nonetheless this kid is amazing.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/s...er.php?id=4302

Most goals scored by a rookie in the CHL is owned by Pat LaFontaine 104. Tavares sits 4th.

Most goals scored in a single season in the CHL is owned by Mario Lemieux 133 goals. Gretz and Tavares are way down the list.

[spackler]

Thanks Spackler, that makes more sense. Now lets howe the TSN guys learn this for the show tonight, they left a lot of people with the impression that he would be able to play for Toronto in 09 if they signed him to an HL contract this year.

I think that the earliest he could sign with the Leafs as a free agent is 4 years after his original draft year (09), so for the 2013 season? I don't see that happening.

[Indio]

I think that the earliest he could sign with the Leafs as a free agent is 4 years after his original draft year (09), so for the 2013 season? I don't see that happening.

Hell no, he will have made millions with a real hockey team by then

[mberube]

Because the AHL has no transfer agreement with the NHL, much like the Russian league, the theory was that they could sign him to the Marlies and then extract some draft picks or $$$ compensation from whichever NHL team drafted him. They wouldn't be able to transfer him to the Leafs though as his NHL rights would be separate from his AHL rights.

Problem is, the same age rules apply in the AHL as NHL so he's not eligible to sign with them next year anyway. The whole point of Tavares signing with the AHL would be to play in a better league for good $$$ if the NHL won't let him in. If that's not possible, I doubt he'd do anything but go straight to the NHL in 09.

Doesn’t the Leafs own the Marlies or have some type of agreement with them. The Marlies have everything to gain by offering a contract to Tavares and then make a deal for the transfer to the NHL in 2009. Tavares will be 18 in September 2008 so he will be allowed to play in the AHL at the beginning of next season missing the draft by one season. Then transfer to the “Leafs” in 2008.

If all this is possible my guess is that some heads are going to be cut off and the NHL will have to do something about it.

[spackler]

Doesn’t the Leafs own the Marlies or have some type of agreement with them. The Marlies have everything to gain by offering a contract to Tavares and then make a deal for the transfer to the NHL in 2009. Tavares will be 18 in September 2008 so he will be allowed to play in the AHL at the beginning of next season missing the draft by one season. Then transfer to the “Leafs” in 2008.

If all this is possible my guess is that some heads are going to be cut off and the NHL will have to do something about it.

NHL rights are separate from AHL rights. They can definitely sign him, but they can't transfer him to the big squad unless the Leafs own his NHL rights. He will be drafted in 2009 and that NHL team will hold his rights for 2 years. If that team can't sign him, he reenters the draft in 2011 and whichever team picks him holds his rights for another 2 years. If that team can't sign him before the 2013 draft, he becomes a free agent and can then sign with whomever he wants. I doubt he'll wait it out that long.

The only incentive Tavares would have to play in the AHL is if they make an exception to their age rules to let him play pro hoceky next year, when he is ineligble to play in the NHL.

[jeffc]

good article here

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/mckenzie/?id=221399

[Fallys0820]

Unfortunately as Mberube posted above I was off in my wording. I believe the hype was not about his rookie year, but scored more goals than Gretz did at the same age.

I didn't read the article posted by Jeff above, but I heard that regardless, Tavares cannot play in the AHL or NHL until 2009. Both AHL and NHL (according to Sportsnet) have the same eligibility date, September 15. Tavares birthday is September 20 or something.

He's not eligible for the draft until 2009, and if he did somehow get signed with the Marlies, he'd have to refuse to play with the team that drafted him and essentially stick in the AHL until 2011, and he'd become a free agent and then be able to be signed by the highest bidder.

Granted, this all might have been nullified or verified in the article from McKenzie, but I can't read it as I don't like the guy lol. Did Bob McKenzie type the article in all Caps like he was yelling at the reader? Or does he only yell when there's a TV camera?

Fally

[jeffc]

between him and McGuire, those guys are always yelling...

[Fallys0820]

Ya lol...I don't mind McGuire though, he's atleast mildly intelligent. Bob is just a boob.

Fally
aka Scott

[Indio]

Bob is just a boob.

I'm hurt partner

[Golfbum]

Unfortunately as Mberube posted above I was off in my wording. I believe the hype was not about his rookie year, but scored more goals than Gretz did at the same age.

I didn't read the article posted by Jeff above, but I heard that regardless, Tavares cannot play in the AHL or NHL until 2009. Both AHL and NHL (according to Sportsnet) have the same eligibility date, September 15. Tavares birthday is September 20 or something.

He's not eligible for the draft until 2009, and if he did somehow get signed with the Marlies, he'd have to refuse to play with the team that drafted him and essentially stick in the AHL until 2011, and he'd become a free agent and then be able to be signed by the highest bidder.

Granted, this all might have been nullified or verified in the article from McKenzie, but I can't read it as I don't like the guy lol. Did Bob McKenzie type the article in all Caps like he was yelling at the reader? Or does he only yell when there's a TV camera?

Fally

If they bend the rules for this kid it will open the floodgates up. Any JR eligible player drafted at the age of 18 could then be placed on an NHL teams farm team. If so kiss the OHL, WHL and QMJHL good bye. Why? Simple, all the talented 18 year old players would be in the AHL. Not a good situation for those leagues.

A few years ago JR B,C & D teams could carry 15 year old players. Joe Thornton and Brian Willsie both played JR B as 15 year olds here in St.T. It was a treat to be able to watch those two play against 18-19 and 20 year old players. Both of them were outstanding players at the age of 15.

Now those players are not allowed to play JR Hockey as Minor Hockey felt that was taking the talent away from the Midget teams. It was a shame that decision was made but it was. Now JR B, C & D teams are only allowed to carry two 16 year old players. They can call up local 15 year old players for 5 games during the season. That happened last Sunday in St T and the kid scored two goals and added an asisst. He could easily be in the JR B lineup right now. Instead he plays on a Minor Midget team consisting of the best players from Elgin and Middlesex Counties, except London players. So really the talented 15 year olds are not playing for the local Midget teams, at least not in this area.

Tavares is a great player but both the NHL & AHL should not give in like the OHL did when it comes to age restrictions. I am sure some people here will disagree with the above statements (As this thread was not about Joe Thornton, Brian Willsie and JR B,C or D hockey) but the age rule for the AHL should not be changed for one player, IMO.

[spackler]

The problem with the draft age issue is it's a completely arbitrary date in September, and Tavares misses it by 5 days. Why not simplify it and make it by birth year? I don't see what the big deal is.

[jeffc]

I doubt it matters where it is - there will always be an issue. if they put it at Dec 31, then those born in the first part of january would take issue with it.

[Golfbum]

I doubt it matters where it is - there will always be an issue. if they put it at Dec 31, then those born in the first part of january would take issue with it.

Exactly. The date has been the same for years. Why change it now? When you think about it there are "KIDS" playing in the NHL who can't even live on their own. As a parent would you want your 18 year old son on his own in a big city with a fist full of cash? I know I would not. Boston actually put Joe Thornton with a family his first season he was there. Older players skilled Joe in how to avoid being trapped by women who always seek the easy money that big time sports players have.

I recall a conversation I had with Pat Stapleton a few years ago. We talked about 18 year olds playing in the NHL. He stated that during his playing days there were no 18 year olds in the NHL. He felt it was too young of age to be there. Times change, but to allow an underage player in the AHL should not be something the league lets happen.

As I said in my other post, once the rule gets changed for one player the floodgates will open.