Tiger vs Weir!

[Indio]

If memory serves you began the debate with your response to my thread.........

Actually I think it was my apparently stupid question 'what benefits will this have to Canadian Golf' that started this debate So sue me

[mpare]

It is difficult for me to believe that anyone who actually watched this event from start to finish could claim that Tiger was not sincerely trying to win. It may be (you'd have to ask him) that team events don't fuel his fire a great deal, but singles matches definitely focus his attention. This guy does not like to lose ... at any time. That Mike Weir won speaks volumes about his intestinal fortitude. To denigrate his accomplishment by suggesting that Tiger was not trying says more about the critic than it does about Tiger's supposed lack of effort. For my part, I prefer to raise my glass in a toast to a truly great performance.

[Hacker]

A basic understanding of the game of golf indicates that it is a game of managing one's misses versus hitting perfect shots and you know this. Why then do you discredit Mike's win, if even by the narrowest margin, by saying that Tiger was not at his best and Mike was? If both players played their best they would birdie (or better) every hole, resulting in a all square match. Mike won because he was 1 less miss better than Tiger. That's golf. Good for Mike. And, yes, Tiger cared.

The fact that Tiger hit it wide right on 6, is what Tiger does. A fader missing it left on 18 shows that even he may be affected by the pressure of the situation as contrary to how some think, he is human. Match play lends itself to more aggressive play. Tiger made that choice on 18, gambled, and lost. How anyone can look at that match and see something negative, is really sad.

Well there you have it. The Plane Truth of the matter is that Tiger choked and that if anyone doesn't see it that way then they don't have even a basic understanding of the game.

I thought that expressing ones opinion and engaging in debate devoid of personal attacks was still allowed and perhaps even encouraged but alas I am wrong......I'm also still confused about how Tiger making one more mistake than Mike doesn't equate to him losing.

Be the ball Hacker, just be the ball............

[golfchick07]

Mike Weir had the crowds electrified on every hole. I am sure that Tiger was having a very difficult time staying focused and in the zone!!
I was at 1-10-13-17 and 18. Every tee and green was just on fire with excitement for Mike and overall I believe for Canada!

[Hacker]

It is difficult for me to believe that anyone who actually watched this event from start to finish could claim that Tiger was not sincerely trying to win. It may be (you'd have to ask him) that team events don't fuel his fire a great deal, but singles matches definitely focus his attention. This guy does not like to lose ... at any time. That Mike Weir won speaks volumes about his intestinal fortitude. To denigrate his accomplishment by suggesting that Tiger was not trying says more about the critic than it does about Tiger's supposed lack of effort. For my part, I prefer to raise my glass in a toast to a truly great performance.

Fair enough mpare - ever hear of the grassy knoll? A good conspiracy theory never hurt anyone and I for one find it hard to accept the fact that Tiger Woods was simply "Average" this week after winning 4 of his last 5 events.

I'm not a homer and I never will be. Mike Weir played some fantastic golf this week of that there is no doubt, I'm just trying to look at both sides of the equation

[Indio]

It is difficult for me to believe that anyone who actually watched this event from start to finish could claim that Tiger was not sincerely trying to win. It may be (you'd have to ask him) that team events don't fuel his fire a great deal, but singles matches definitely focus his attention. This guy does not like to lose ... at any time. That Mike Weir won speaks volumes about his intestinal fortitude. To denigrate his accomplishment by suggesting that Tiger was not trying says more about the critic than it does about Tiger's supposed lack of effort. For my part, I prefer to raise my glass in a toast to a truly great performance.

I agree that Tiger was trying to win as Tiger himself once said I enter tournaments to win, not to finish second. I may be wrong in my interpretation of what is being said but I read it as saying Tiger was not in high gear like he would be in a major (or the fedex cup)... he was trying to win but he was also enjoying the scenery around him. That was not the typical focus you see from Tiger. He was chatting and laughing people, under normal circumstances Tiger wouldn't say boo or even acknowledge his FC. I don't think that deminishes Mikeys accomplishmmeant whatsoever, but I think in fairness to us that say Tiger wasn't Tiger, it just wasn't

[NoBack]

I for one find it hard to accept the fact that Tiger Woods was simply "Average" this week after winning 4 of his last 5 events.

THIS is the problem. Are you saying that EVERY time Tiger plays he going to win?
All great players lose, and the BEST players will lose and come back with more experience.

On sunday September 30th, 2007, Mike Weir BEAT The Cat. Plain and simple.

[big mac]

Oh my god! My head is spinning

[Hacker]

THIS is the problem. Are you saying that EVERY time Tiger plays he going to win?
All great players lose, and the BEST players will lose and come back with more experience.

On sunday September 30th, 2007, Mike Weir BEAT The Cat. Plain and simple.

I am NOT saying that Tiger will win every time out. Phil BEAT him head to head a few weeks back and it was outstanding golf.

What I watched on Sunday was more of a next person to make a mistake loses as opposed to a next one to hit a great shot wins kind of deal.

I think that Tiger beat himself (thus LOST the match) more so than Mike beat him.

We simply have a difference of opinion. You will probably not make me change mine and I'm sure that I'll not make you change yours either - but the beauty of it is we can both state our cases

[Hacker]

Oh my god! My head is spinning

Its OK big mac - you are up well past your bed time so that is perfectly normal

[Golfbum]

TIGER WHO??????????

If anyone thinks Woods actually "LAYED DOWN" so Mike could win, they better sit down and rethink that thought.

There isn't a snowballs chance in hell that Woods would lay down for Mike, or anyone else for that matter just because he is Canadian and the PC was held in Canada.

I am far from being a big fan of Woods but I know one thing, he hates to lose. Whether it be a Major, a PGA Event of a so called meaningless match in the President's Cup.

He made a mental mistake on 18, or he actually thought he could drive it over that far corner of the lake. Remember, that was the first time he had been on the 18th tee during a match. Only during practice rounds had be been there. So maybe he just figured he could rip the driver over the corner and have a short iron into the green. Well we all know the outcome of that!

I will admit I did not think Mike deserved to be on this team, based on his play during the last two years. Gary Player had said the same thing. Maybe Mike's play at The Open Championship was part of the reason Gary picked him. Either way it was a great pick, and much like the year Player picked Innleman, he proved he knows who to pick.

Was this event good for golf in Canada? Of course it was. It brought exposure to the USA that we love golf here. Johnny Miller mentioned that per capita we have more golfers than USA does. I bet a few Americans were a bit shocked by that statement.

If 500 non golfers watched this event then it could be possible they could be inspired to take up the game. That's 500 more than we had before! The first thing that the young guy said to me this afternoon as he came into the Back Shop to start his shift. "What about that match between Mike and Tiger" This kid is gung ho to golf, and he can play. Like Mike he is small in size. So maybe this makes him think the can succeed in the world of golf someday in the future.

[3Jack]

Well there you have it. The Plane Truth of the matter is that Tiger choked and that if anyone doesn't see it that way then they don't have even a basic understanding of the game.

I don't think it's possible for someone to choke if they don't really care if they win or lose... you can't have it both ways

[Hacker]

I don't think it's possible for someone to choke if they don't really care if they win or lose... you can't have it both ways

Nevermind....

[3Jack]

OMG - Are you serious?!?

Sarcasm obviously isn't a concept that you have a firm grasp of

Geez, what was that about personal attacks you referred to earlier?

Dude, it's near impossible to convey sarcasm by email, and the same applies here. Thanks for dumbing it down for me.

[Kilroy]

Well, I'm back and I'd like to see the tone of this thread turned down a notch or 3.
Thanks.

[3Jack]

As would I. Sorry if I contributed to the level of tension.

[Hacker]

Well, I'm back and I'd like to see the tone of this thread turned down a notch or 3.
Thanks.

Tis all good Dan

The odds are currently sitting at 4:1 that when the PGA Tour implements its anti-match fixing testing program that Jack will test positive for Pres. Cup fixing - you in??

[Indio]

Well, I'm back and I'd like to see the tone of this thread turned down a notch or 3.
Thanks.

Welcome back

[mpare]

No one other than Mike was hitting those beautiful shots into the greens and sinking those putts. No one other than Mike kept his composure after Tiger charged back from a 3 hole deficit to lead by one. Mike did it all by himself with the all of Canada and most of the golfing world watching.

You discount Mike's victory, because this was not the Ryder Cup nor was it a major. You do this on the tenuous basis that Tiger wasn't trying as hard as he would in those events. If you are right (and I don't for a second accept that you are), then one could argue on an analogous basis (which I would not) that Tiger's victories were not as hard earned as Jack's. Why? Because in Jack's era PGA Tour players earned most, if not all, of their income from the Tour, and you didn't really earn anything if you weren't in the top 5. Those guys played for keeps. Today's players are sheltered from those economic realities.

Yes, you are entitled to any opinion you'd like to formulate. However, in this case there is a paucity of evidence to support your conclusion, which conclusion has about as much validity as the unfounded belief by the conspiracy theorists who have persisted in the belief that there was another shooter on the grassy knoll in Dallas.

I think that Tiger beat himself (thus LOST the match) more so than Mike beat him.

We simply have a difference of opinion. You will probably not make me change mine and I'm sure that I'll not make you change yours either - but the beauty of it is we can both state our cases

[Kilroy]

The event was awesome. The crowds unbelieveable. The weekend was definately something to remember. There is no question in my mind that Mike's win against Tiger was something truly special. The Cup itself was toast, but the crowd was totally into this match. The cheers when Mike drained the put on 17 were deafening. Absolutely incredible.

[Indio]

The event was awesome. The crowds unbelieveable. The weekend was definately something to remember. There is no question in my mind that Mike's win against Tiger was something truly special. The Cup itself was toast, but the crowd was totally into this match. The cheers when Mike drained the put on 17 were deafening. Absolutely incredible.

Can't remember who it was but the on course commentator said it was the most deafening roar that he had ever heard at a golf event. He said nothing he had ever heard was as electrifying as that. He also said it gave him goose bumps

Class act Montréal

[PEI Golfing]

If 500 non golfers watched this event then it could be possible they could be inspired to take up the game. That's 500 more than we had before! The first thing that the young guy said to me this afternoon as he came into the Back Shop to start his shift. "What about that match between Mike and Tiger" This kid is gung ho to golf, and he can play. Like Mike he is small in size. So maybe this makes him think the can succeed in the world of golf someday in the future.

Golfbum this is exactly what I was referring to before all "heck" broke loose on this thread. Perhaps that small kid that works at your club might realize with some hard work he may go somewhere.

[Hacker]

No one other than Mike was hitting those beautiful shots into the greens and sinking those putts. No one other than Mike kept his composure after Tiger charged back from a 3 hole deficit to lead by one. Mike did it all by himself with the all of Canada and most of the golfing world watching.

You discount Mike's victory, because this was not the Ryder Cup nor was it a major. You do this on the tenuous basis that Tiger wasn't trying as hard as he would in those events. If you are right (and I don't for a second accept that you are), then one could argue on an analogous basis (which I would not) that Tiger's victories were not as hard earned as Jack's. Why? Because in Jack's era PGA Tour players earned most, if not all, of their income from the Tour, and you didn't really earn anything if you weren't in the top 5. Those guys played for keeps. Today's players are sheltered from those economic realities.

Yes, you are entitled to any opinion you'd like to formulate. However, in this case there is a paucity of evidence to support your conclusion, which conclusion has about as much validity as the unfounded belief by the conspiracy theorists who have persisted in the belief that there was another shooter on the grassy knoll in Dallas.

And that is what makes it so much fun....I'm arguing that no one but Tiger was hitting those terrible shot into the woods and that he lost it as much as Mike won it. I'd also argue that Tiger's victories are harder earned than Jacks because the average level of competition has raised substantially and that there are now more people capable of stepping up on any given Sunday and snatching the victory from Tiger's hands (i.e. Mike Weir).

The way I see it, it is all about plausibility. Could there have been a second shooter? Sure. Could aliens have visited earth? Why not? Could Tiger have cared more about the match and played better? Yup.

Those are just the opinions of some and like you said we do have a right to formulating my own opinions.........its the judging of opinions that seems to stir the pot.

[mpare]

Trust me. Elvis is long gone. Postulating his continued existence won't make it so. The guy is no longer here despite the fact that thousands still believe he's still alive and kicking.

[Indio]

Trust me. Elvis is long gone. Postulating his continued existence won't make it so. The guy is no longer here despite the fact that thousands still believe he's still alive and kicking.

Say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hacker]

Trust me. Elvis is long gone. Postulating his continued existence won't make it so. The guy is no longer here despite the fact that thousands still believe he's still alive and kicking.

LOL - OK, so am I correct in believing that you don't subscribe to the theory of self-fulfilling prophecies????

[Newbie]

Not only was the President's Cuip good for the country it was great for my marriage!!! My spouse of 34 years,who is a great gal, just doesn't get the passion nor the hours of practice it took to break 90 this year, my rookie golf of year. We visited the Royal Montreal on Friday and sat for three hours waiting for the troops to hit the 16th!!!!!!! She was thrilled, as was I to see Mike lock it on the 17th Friday. While I golfed at the Outaouais Sunday afternoon she watched the entire singles event on television. DID YOU HEAR ME BOYS...she watched the entire singles event...ALONE.... not feeling obligated to watch with me! Heck I don't care if it is good for golf in the nation....I get to golf three times this week!!!!!!!!! YAHOOOOOOOO!!!

[mpare]

Not when it involves raising someone from the dead. On the other hand, when those beliefs involve personal events over which one has some control, then I think that one's attitude and commitment are significant factors in determining one's life.

LOL - OK, so am I correct in believing that you don't subscribe to the theory of self-fulfilling prophecies????

[PEI Golfing]

Yes, Tiger miscalculated trying to cut the corner on 18. As mentioned a number of times it was the first time since the practice round he played 18, so that might have played a role.
However, noticed nobody has mentioned that Tiger could have made things very interesting if his chip shot had gone in. He only missed by 6 inches.......
Then Mike would have had to make a 15 foot putt for the win.

Tiger's chip certainly did not look like a guy "giving up".....................

[Hacker]

Not only was the President's Cuip good for the country it was great for my marriage!!! My spouse of 34 years,who is a great gal, just doesn't get the passion nor the hours of practice it took to break 90 this year, my rookie golf of year. We visited the Royal Montreal on Friday and sat for three hours waiting for the troops to hit the 16th!!!!!!! She was thrilled, as was I to see Mike lock it on the 17th Friday. While I golfed at the Outaouais Sunday afternoon she watched the entire singles event on television. DID YOU HEAR ME BOYS...she watched the entire singles event...ALONE.... not feeling obligated to watch with me! Heck I don't care if it is good for golf in the nation....I get to golf three times this week!!!!!!!!! YAHOOOOOOOO!!!

Nice!!