Tiger vs Weir!

[PEI Golfing]

Well, this is a very "after school special" thought in my opinion.


As for the baseball analogy, my impression of baseball, especially in smaller markets, is that it's actually on the decline. Minor fastpitch is on the decline where you used to be able to see a lot of it. Soccer is starting to take over in popularity where fastpitch used to be. As for hardball, I can't comment on that as I was never in hardball (where I was from they didn't have any unless you went to London, ON...and who knows where or how far away games would be at that point).

I think I'm with Indio on this one, I really don't see how this is going to make any difference. But if I'm wrong, I'll eat my piece of humble pie.

Fally
aka Scott

Never mentioned minor fastball. Talking about baseball !!

Read this article from Slam sports back in June, and it will give more detail on what I was trying to explain re: Baseball.
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/C...41679-sun.html

Yes, agreed grass roots develop Golf programs need to improve. However, with increased enrollment these programs are bound to only improve. And its role models like Mike Weir that might just get these kids to think "Hey golf is cool". I know its a heck of alot cooler to play golf now as a youngster than when I was growing up.......

Mike's success is only going to help and not hurt!!!

[jonf]

keep in mind nobody who isn't already into golf is going to hear about/pay attention to the presidents cup. Now, if Mike Weir's comeback had clinched a victory for the (world?) team, it might be a different story. But I sincerely doubt you're going to get a bunch of kids going to their folks and saying "Hey Dad, can I take some golf lessons so that I can be like that guy who played really well but still lost?"

[PEI Golfing]

keep in mind nobody who isn't already into golf is going to hear about/pay attention to the presidents cup. Now, if Mike Weir's comeback had clinched a victory for the (world?) team, it might be a different story. But I sincerely doubt you're going to get a bunch of kids going to their folks and saying "Hey Dad, can I take some golf lessons so that I can be like that guy who played really well but still lost?"

Yes, the team lost, but Mike played terrific all week and won his match against World #1 player !!! Can only have positive results. I am sure there are alot of kids out there who have a "glass half full" attitude and can take positive energy from an accomplishment like this.

Interesting most of any negative comments or "it is not going to do a darn thing for Canadian golf" comments are coming from people who did not attend the Presidents Cup!!! Perhaps if you had been there and watched these guys practice and play for a couple of days you might also feel something positive about Mike's accomplishment.

Trouble is some people go through life with a "glass is half empty" attitude and they will never change...........

[jonf]

No, what I'm saying is that the people who saw and witnessed it are people who are already well acquainted with the game. Something will only "grow the game" when it reaches a new audience. I really doubt this event did that. Golf fans, got a real treat today, but I really don't think it's going to make much of an impact outside the golf community, which in turn means its unlikely to bring new blood to the game.

[big mac]

keep in mind nobody who isn't already into golf is going to hear about/pay attention to the presidents cup. Now, if Mike Weir's comeback had clinched a victory for the (world?) team, it might be a different story. But I sincerely doubt you're going to get a bunch of kids going to their folks and saying "Hey Dad, can I take some golf lessons so that I can be like that guy who played really well but still lost?"

This is exactly what I meant by no dumping---Why is it that we as "Canadians" don't know how to blow our own horns---Damm-it give the guy credit.

[stevek]

keep in mind nobody who isn't already into golf is going to hear about/pay attention to the presidents cup. Now, if Mike Weir's comeback had clinched a victory for the (world?) team, it might be a different story. But I sincerely doubt you're going to get a bunch of kids going to their folks and saying "Hey Dad, can I take some golf lessons so that I can be like that guy who played really well but still lost?"

The fact it's been one of the lead stories on CTV Newsnet since yesterday afternoon can't but help Canadian Golf.

[BC MIST]

I guess the tears in the eyes of Mike Weir and Steve Stricker at the end show that the PC was more than just an "entertainment exhibition." There was no doubt that it was "serious competition" with the difference that when the Americans are more relaxed and having fun, they play better, showing that Nicklaus and Player, too, know what to do to get the best out of their players. I wonder if Azinger will learn anything from this?

The PC was wonderful to watch, both in person and in HD, the course was challenging but fair, yielding a host of spectacular shots, the galleryites boisterous but supportive of both teams (did anyone hear any boos?) and appreciated by the players who all wanted to win very badly, but showed good sportsmanship and respect to each other. Just the way it should be. A great week of golf.

Now, if we could just get the American commentators to shut up, it would be perfect.

[spackler]

I don't know why anyone cares about what it does or doesn't do for "golf in Canada". Why not embrace it for what it was? A stirring match where Canada's most accomplished golfer took down the greatest golfer in the history of golf on home turf. This is the golf equivilent of what might have been had Chuvalo beat Ali at Maple Leaf Gardens, instead of losing a decision. It doesn't have to be any more or less than what it was, it stands by itself IMO.

[Ginker]

I had the pleasure of being there yesterday and one memory that I will keep for ever was on #7. We camped out to see the guys come through the short par 3. First to hit is Weir. Sticks it about 6 feet. Crowd goes wild... Oh before I forgot there was a manual score board on this hole as well.. Weir came to the hole 3 up.. Everytime they updated the score board the crowd went wild.. One time Lucas Glover was about to putt and they changed the score board to Weir 2 up and everyone went wild..

Tiger hit second landed it about 6 feet by the hole and spun it back inside Weir. As they approached the crowd was wild.. chanting Mike, Mike Mike.. Tiger followed behind. I wondered what Tiger was feeling.. Normally this kind of applause is for him. But virtually no one was cheering for him.

Weir putted first and rolled it in.. again the crowd was electric.. So much that as Tiger was reading his putt the crowd still yelling (myslef included) Weir had to tell everyone to be quiet so Tiger could putt.. It was great.

Also loved seeing Rory Sabbatini's wife along with Weir wife and mother and one more wife (don't recall whos) wearing Team Canada Jerseys.

What a great day yesterday. Very proud to be apart of it and to be a Canadian.

[leftylucas]

I saw that too Lance, I followed the group for the whole round, we had chairs that we could step up on and could see over the huge crowds. I have been to many sporting championship event sand I cannot recall an atmosphere as rich and pleasing as this. Mike was under unbeleivable pressure and came through. The way he came back after his only bad hole (15) was classic. The putt on 17 followed by that crazy drive on 18 were probably the most pressure anyone could possibly have. You had ot be there to understand it. The crowd got bigger and bigger every hole, louder and louder too. Every hole people who were waiting there for groups to go through would leave once Weir played through and continued with them. All the International wives had the Team Canada jerseys on. We started following Cabrera/Austin right behind Weir and we were able to catch the action for both groups thanks to our chairs and binoculars.

The best shot I have ever seen was Cabrera's low riser out of the woods on 12. I was right there and could see the tree branches hanging. The ball started low and then rose once passed the trees, un-frekin-believable. Amazing week there for me including Jack Nicklaus signing my brand new Pres Cup hat!!!

[dH]

I have a new found respect for Mike. Anyone who can make those types of mental errors yet still maintain the resolve to beat an opponent like Tiger... A+ class act. I've been coverted!!

[Hacker]

First off let me be perfectly clear that I am a Proud Canadian!!

But I think you guys are getting a little carried away in your praise for Mike and the impacts that this win will have on Jr. Golf in Canada.

Do you honestly believe that Tiger really cared about the outcome of his match with Mike? The US had the cup wrapped up and Tiger knew it.

Also, Jack was on record numerous times this week about how great it would be for Mike to play Tiger.......do you think that it is a far stretch to think that there were behind closed door discussions about how great it would be it Mike beat Tiger i.e. "Hey Tiger, I win for Canada would mean a lot today" - do you think that the putt he conceded on day one would have been conceded to any other pair other than Mike's pairing??

Finally, did Mike actually win or did Tiger lose? Tiger was spraying the ball all over the place and was still 1 up with a few holes to play......also, why did he hit driver on 18? No reason to do that. If this was a medal play event and especially if it were a Major, Tiger would have hit his 2-iron and made an easy par.

Kudos to Mike for making the shots when he had to, but some of you are making this seem like he went toe to toe with Tiger on the back 9 of the Masters and won........fact is it was a meaningless singles match play match in a team event that was for all intents and purposes already won.

Good job Mike but I think that I'd be holding off on planning the 2008 Grand Slam parade for now...........

Oh yeah, and I still think that, based on 2006 and 2007 performance, the wrong Canadian was chosen............

[Indio]

Yes, the team lost, but Mike played terrific all week and won his match against World #1 player !!! Can only have positive results. I am sure there are alot of kids out there who have a "glass half full" attitude and can take positive energy from an accomplishment like this.

Interesting most of any negative comments or "it is not going to do a darn thing for Canadian golf" comments are coming from people who did not attend the Presidents Cup!!! Perhaps if you had been there and watched these guys practice and play for a couple of days you might also feel something positive about Mike's accomplishment.

Trouble is some people go through life with a "glass is half empty" attitude and they will never change...........

Hey PEI, I think Mike did an unbelievable job in his match! I for one was very proud he did it but to make it sound like he is the first ever to beat Tiger is stretching the accomplishment a wee bit. As a Canuck I am very proud of what Mike did and even more proud of how the crowd reacted to both teams.... that was an awesome display!!!

I for one never said it wouldn't do anything for golf, I simply asked the question what people thought it was going to do... all day long on TV and in this forum thats all I heard how amazing this was going to be for Canadian Golf but NOT ONE person explained why.... so I decided to ask out of curiosity. Then you piped in and tried to insinuate that I was being negative and provided an unwanted lesson in the history of baseball......

You may think some people have a negative attitude and won't change, I feel it is better to accept that not everyone is going to be of the same opinion and respect their point of view instead of rediculing them because they do not fit the particular mold you have cast for everyone.

[stevek]

The fact it's been one of the lead stories on CTV Newsnet since yesterday afternoon can't but help Canadian Golf.

On the other hand between watching golf or playing golf I still prefer playing. I didn't watch the match between Wier/Woods - I played Dragonfly then hot-tubbed.

I only got updates when going in for another galss of wine of bottle of beer.

[little brit]

I really enjoyed the match between Tiger and Mike. I wasn't supposed to, I was supposed to be cleaning the house ready for my UK trip today. But I was glued to the TV.

I tend to agree though that if you are not aware or interested in something, it just goes over your head, you just tune out. I wouldn't have any idea what had happened if I wasn't so interested in golf. I don't follow any other sports and I couldn't tell you anything about them.

[3Jack]

Do you honestly believe that Tiger really cared about the outcome of his match with Mike? The US had the cup wrapped up and Tiger knew it.

Yes. Tiger doesn't like to lose - be it in ping-pong or in a President's Cup singles, period.

Also, Jack was on record numerous times this week about how great it would be for Mike to play Tiger.......do you think that it is a far stretch to think that there were behind closed door discussions about how great it would be it Mike beat Tiger i.e. "Hey Tiger, I win for Canada would mean a lot today" - do you think that the putt he conceded on day one would have been conceded to any other pair other than Mike's pairing??

Gimme a break!

Finally, did Mike actually win or did Tiger lose? Tiger was spraying the ball all over the place and was still 1 up with a few holes to play......also, why did he hit driver on 18? No reason to do that. If this was a medal play event and especially if it were a Major, Tiger would have hit his 2-iron and made an easy par.

But, he didn't hit two-iron. He did what he did. You're insinuating that he threw the match - which is really low.

Kudos to Mike for making the shots when he had to, but some of you are making this seem like he went toe to toe with Tiger on the back 9 of the Masters and won........fact is it was a meaningless singles match play match in a team event that was for all intents and purposes already won.

If it was so meaningless, why was Furyk pissed off when he pulled his tee shot on 17 when the Cup had already been decided?

Good job Mike but I think that I'd be holding off on planning the 2008 Grand Slam parade for now...........

No one is saying he'll win the slam, that's silly. I think we all hope that this spurs him on to a better year next year... nothing wrong with that.

Oh yeah, and I still think that, based on 2006 and 2007 performance, the wrong Canadian was chosen............

So you'd have picked Ames? A guy who while he holds Canadian citizenship, has in the past chosen to play internationally for Trinadad and Tobago? (This fact renders him ineligible to participate in the World Cup.) If anything, he could have still been a captain's pick under the T&T flag, but for some reason he wasn't.

[Fallys0820]

I will agree with 90% of what Hacker said, just not the part about the wrong Canadian being chosen. I assure you, if Stephen Ames was playing, I wouldn't have been interested in this event at all. I don't care for the guys attitude, I don't care for his game.

Mike Weir is a much easier person for me to relate to. He is the most decorated Canadian golfer. To me, Stephen Ames is going to be at best, second fiddle. I think Gary Player understands that. Gary Player is also a very positive thinker/person and wanted someone on the team that would mesh well. I doubt any of the wives would have been wearing the Team Canada jerseys if Stephen Ames was the Canadian.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching the match and was enthralled by it. It's easy to armchair quarterback what Tiger would have done in that spot in a major/regular stroke play event. Keep in mind, walking up 18, Tiger was tied with Mike. He also hit 2nd. He knew Mike just pumped a drive out there and Tiger wants to win, not tie or rely on the other guy to screw up. He put a bad swing on an important shot and lost the hole to Mike.

Although I still think this will be greater motivation for Mike than it will Canadian golf. Tiger won 4 out of 5 holes on the back 9 and Mike still kept scratching away. I think it was a greater mental motivation for Mike than anything else. And the comraderie (sp?) of the International Team with Mike after he won his match was really nice to see. Again, probably nobody there would have given Ames a second glance when Tiger crushed him 9 and 8.

My 2 cents,

Fally
aka Scott

[Indio]

I will agree with 90% of what Hacker said, just not the part about the wrong Canadian being chosen. I assure you, if Stephen Ames was playing, I wouldn't have been interested in this event at all. I don't care for the guys attitude, I don't care for his game.

I agree about 95% with Hacker. I don't think any Canadian deserved to be there but yes, definitely Weir over Ames

Putting the patriotism and canadian pride aside, we all know the only reason he picked Mike was because it was in Canada. If it were being played elsewhere, I don't believe they would have picked Mikey.

Imagine if the role was reversed, Mikey was #11 on the list and Player instead went down to 20th to pick someone because it was in their country.... we Canadian's would revolt! IMHO there were others that deserved to be there that should have been but having said that, as a Canadian I am damned glad they picked Mikey and I am proud of how he performed! I must have been real tough on his nerves with the pride of all Canadian golf fans on his shoulders!

He did superb and we are all proud of him but that does not mean we believe he deserved to be there for his past performance.

[BC MIST]

Finally, did Mike actually win or did Tiger lose? Tiger was spraying the ball all over the place and was still 1 up with a few holes to play......also, why did he hit driver on 18? No reason to do that. If this was a medal play event and especially if it were a Major, Tiger would have hit his 2-iron and made an easy par.

A basic understanding of the game of golf indicates that it is a game of managing one's misses versus hitting perfect shots and you know this. Why then do you discredit Mike's win, if even by the narrowest margin, by saying that Tiger was not at his best and Mike was? If both players played their best they would birdie (or better) every hole, resulting in a all square match. Mike won because he was 1 less miss better than Tiger. That's golf. Good for Mike. And, yes, Tiger cared.

The fact that Tiger hit it wide right on 6, is what Tiger does. A fader missing it left on 18 shows that even he may be affected by the pressure of the situation as contrary to how some think, he is human. Match play lends itself to more aggressive play. Tiger made that choice on 18, gambled, and lost. How anyone can look at that match and see something negative, is really sad.

[3Jack]

I agree about 95% with Hacker. I don't think any Canadian deserved to be there but yes, definitely Weir over Ames

Putting the patriotism and canadian pride aside, we all know the only reason he picked Mike was because it was in Canada. If it were being played elsewhere, I don't believe they would have picked Mikey.

Imagine if the role was reversed, Mikey was #11 on the list and Player instead went down to 20th to pick someone because it was in their country.... we Canadian's would revolt! IMHO there were others that deserved to be there that should have been but having said that, as a Canadian I am damned glad they picked Mikey and I am proud of how he performed! I must have been real tough on his nerves with the pride of all Canadian golf fans on his shoulders!

He did superb and we are all proud of him but that does not mean we believe he deserved to be there for his past performance.

The only reason that the PresCup was in Canada was because of Weir - so from that standpoint alone he deserved the pick. The only reason not to have picked him would be due to injury or a Duval-like fall from form.

[Hacker]

But, he didn't hit two-iron. He did what he did. You're insinuating that he threw the match - which is really low. - Get off your high horse......I didn't say that he threw the match, I'm suggesting that he wouldn't have been overly upset to lose an individial match play leg in a team event that was already decided.

If it was so meaningless, why was Furyk pissed off when he pulled his tee shot on 17 when the Cup had already been decided? - I'm talking about Tiger not Furyk

So you'd have picked Ames? A guy who while he holds Canadian citizenship, has in the past chosen to play internationally for Trinadad and Tobago? - Yes. I am. To me it should be based on Merit and merit alone. As for the Ames holds Canadian citizenship BS that is total crap. He choose to become a Canadian and is every bit as much a Canadian as any one of us - the fact that you'd even go there speaks volumes........

See my comments in Blue above

[Indio]

The only reason that the PresCup was in Canada was because of Weir - so from that standpoint alone he deserved the pick. The only reason not to have picked him would be due to injury or a Duval-like fall from form.

I respect that you believe that 3jack, all I am saying is that this is supposed to be a competition of the USA's best against the International's best and because of that, I am of the opinion that even though Mikey turned out to be the best for the International (and I say that with pride), on the money list and rankings, he was not the person that should have been selected. You say it yourself that based on him bringing this to Canada he deserves to be selected and I disagree. If someone is representing 'your team', you want them to be the best possible team, not a sentimental fan favorite.

Then again, there are a couple of other players on both teams that I do not believe should have been there but thats for another thread

[Hacker]

The only reason that the PresCup was in Canada was because of Weir - so from that standpoint alone he deserved the pick. The only reason not to have picked him would be due to injury or a Duval-like fall from form.

To say that Mike was the only reason that the Cup came to Canada is taking a very myopic view. I think the Canadian golf fans, the population density around the potential venues and the venues themselves were significant contributing factors.

Did Mike lead the charge and actively lobby for it to come to Canada - Hell Ya!! But his wasn't the only reason.

Speaking of falls from form........A drop from 6th in the World Rankings to 44th and a drop from 5th on the Official Money List to 85th may not quite be Duval-ian but it sure is one heck of a drop-off.

[3Jack]

Hang on. I'm not on a high horse, far from it. To me, your original post differed from my opinion of the event, so I felt like the other side should be heard.

You didn't say Tiger threw the match, but you implied / insinuated that he did - and that's what I said - I said you insinuated it, not that you said it.

And, I'm saying that Tiger did care if he won or lost. You're saying he didn't. I guess I'm just not sure what in Tiger's competitive history makes you think he'd not care. I drew the analogy to Furyk's reaction to his pull on the 17th because it was relevant to the competitive nature of the individual matches - irregardless that the overall team outcome had already been determined.

Not sure if you were there or not, but I was. The event would not have been nearly the same had Ames, Baddeley, or any other player had been chosen as one of Player's wildcard picks. Mike Weir's presence and his play made this event what it was. You can argue until the cows come home that he shouldn't have been there, but he was, and the events of this past weekend speak for themselves.

[3Jack]

I respect that you believe that 3jack, all I am saying is that this is supposed to be a competition of the USA's best against the International's best and because of that, I am of the opinion that even though Mikey turned out to be the best for the International (and I say that with pride), on the money list and rankings, he was not the person that should have been selected. You say it yourself that based on him bringing this to Canada he deserves to be selected and I disagree. If someone is representing 'your team', you want them to be the best possible team, not a sentimental fan favorite.

Then again, there are a couple of other players on both teams that I do not believe should have been there but thats for another thread

Well, that's fine... however, the President's Cup, and the Ryder Cup for that matter have histories of controversial captain's picks... I can recall Fred Couples being selected on two occasions when he's been well outside the top 12... The beauty of the captain's pick is that he is able to make a pick using his judgement of who would give the event an extra bit of flavour and spark. If you guys want the picks to be on merit alone you'll be waiting an awfully long time... besides, it would give us one less thing to debate.

[Indio]

The event would not have been nearly the same had Ames, Baddeley, or any other player had been chosen as one of Player's wildcard picks. Mike Weir's presence and his play made this event what it was.

That is one thing that is undeniable and can not be argued with, the fans at Royal Montreal made this one of the best Ryder Cup or presidents Cup events that I have ever seen.

As Canadians we should be very proud of how everyone there reacted to both teams.

[Indio]

Well, that's fine... however, the President's Cup, and the Ryder Cup for that matter have histories of controversial captain's picks... I can recall Fred Couples being selected on two occasions when he's been well outside the top 12... The beauty of the captain's pick is that he is able to make a pick using his judgement of who would give the event an extra bit of flavour and spark. If you guys want the picks to be on merit alone you'll be waiting an awfully long time... besides, it would give us one less thing to debate.

Yup, there will always be controvery and debate over a judgement pick which will provide us with much fodder for the forum debate team

[3Jack]

To say that Mike was the only reason that the Cup came to Canada is taking a very myopic view. I think the Canadian golf fans, the population density around the potential venues and the venues themselves were significant contributing factors.

Did Mike lead the charge and actively lobby for it to come to Canada - Hell Ya!! But his wasn't the only reason.

Speaking of falls from form........A drop from 6th in the World Rankings to 44th and a drop from 5th on the Official Money List to 85th may not quite be Duval-ian but it sure is one heck of a drop-off.

Man, why is your glass so half-empty?

[Hacker]

I guess I'm just not sure what in Tiger's competitive history makes you think he'd not care.

I think that this is the crux of the matter. A lot of people seem to think that Tiger's competitive nature means that he will try to win every tournament, every match at all costs..........and I agree with this with one small modification. In my opinion, Tiger will try to win at all costs when the event has meaning or is significant to him - I personally don't think that this last singles match had any meaning to him.

I believe that, given his own choice, Tiger would skip the President's Cup all together. I don't think that is means very much to him. It isn't steeped in the same tradition that the Ryder Cup is. But he is the #1 player in the world and the face of golf so he is pretty much obliged to participate. I just don't believe that he gives it the same effort that he does in a major or a regular tour event that he CHOOSES to participate in.

He is on record stating that he plays the game to win Majors. Everyone knows that his life's goal is to win more Majors than Jack. Is he competitive, hell ya, probably more so than any golfer before him. Did he care about the singles match on Sunday.....I don't believe that he cared about it enough to take it to that "other level" that we so often see him in.

That's my opinion plain and simple......

[Hacker]

Man, why is your glass so half-empty?

Au contraire. My glass isn't half empty at all. Debating is all about two sides have differing positions....its about point and counter-point. You contend that the ONLY reason the cup came to Canada was because of Mike. I'm simply stating my counter-point.

If memory serves you began the debate with your response to my thread.........