What is a good drill for turning the hands over?

[sillywilly]

I'm trying to explain to someone over the phone that they need to turn their hands over to square the club face but its very hard to explain to him without actually being there. Any drills that are fairly easy to explain that I could give him? I've seen him swing, he is WIDE open at impact, has been for years!

[bugsy]

I'm trying to explain to someone over the phone that they need to turn their hands over to square the club face but its very hard to explain to him without actually being there. Any drills that are fairly easy to explain that I could give him? I've seen him swing, he is WIDE open at impact, has been for years!

Hey sillywilly, Indio say to tape the persons hands to the club

[Indio]

Hey sillywilly, Indio say to tape the persons hands to the club

[Chieflongtee]

I'm trying to explain to someone over the phone that they need to turn their hands over to square the club face but its very hard to explain to him without actually being there. Any drills that are fairly easy to explain that I could give him? I've seen him swing, he is WIDE open at impact, has been for years!

Baseball grip hands 4 inches apart from each other

[BC MIST]

I'm trying to explain to someone over the phone that they need to turn their hands over to square the club face but its very hard to explain to him without actually being there. Any drills that are fairly easy to explain that I could give him? I've seen him swing, he is WIDE open at impact, has been for years!

If his is wide open at impact, he should turn his hands clockwise on the club to "strengthen" the grip.

Forgive my bluntness, but suggesting that one should "turn the hands over" at impact is one of the worst things a golfer can do and is a guaranteed recipe for disaster. In fact, every effort should be made NOT to do this as what you want is a flat left wrist and a bent right wrist, conditions for consistent ball striking.

[Chieflongtee]

Forgive my bluntness, but suggesting that one should "turn the hands over" at impact is one of the worst things a golfer can do and is a guaranteed recipe for disaster. In fact, every effort should be made NOT to do this as what you want is a flat left wrist and a bent right wrist, conditions for consistent ball striking.
__________________

I am pretty sure he meant the hands roll over after impact which is not a cause but a natural effect if the ball is struck properly in the first place. Kinda of like the following tip: keep your head down. If you do everything else correctly your head will stay down.

[mpare]

Another good exercise for promoting a smooth swing and a full release is to swing with the heels touching. You'd be surprised how quickly this gets you back into rhythm. Anything less and you fall down!

[Wknd_Warrior]

I always have a problem with this swing thought, I don't really turn my hands, they just extend down to the ball and then the arms and body turning mean the recoil is going to be "over". I have a a weak right hand tho so maybe that's why the concept of "rolling over" doesn't work for me.

[Started2k3]

I suck but I agree with BC. To me the difference between "turning the hands over" versus a stronger grip is that one requires timing (dynamic) while the other requires getting used to a slightly different setup (static). I would think that the latter should be easier to get used to.

[hkypuk]

I'm trying to explain to someone over the phone that they need to turn their hands over to square the club face but its very hard to explain to him without actually being there. Any drills that are fairly easy to explain that I could give him? I've seen him swing, he is WIDE open at impact, has been for years!

Far be it from me but I suspect "wide open @ impact" is the result not the cause.

My guess is he's open at impact it is because he is open at the top.That is probably due to a cupped wrist position.

Strengthening his grip will only help if he learns the proper position at the top. I'm no swing coach but seems to me turning the hands "over " will promote a closing clubfaceif that face is put in the correct position at impact. Proper release of the club will automatically turn the hands over causing a whole new set of problems. Proper position of the clubface at impact doesn't require him to close his clubface.

If the clubface starts open it stays open.

Your pals best bet is a 1/2 hour lesson---worth its weight in gold.

Just my opinion.

[BC MIST]

I am pretty sure he meant the hands roll over after impact which is not a cause but a natural effect if the ball is struck properly in the first place. Kinda of like the following tip: keep your head down. If you do everything else correctly your head will stay down.

I respectfully disagree. The poster said that they need to turn their hands over to square the club face. This would obviously have to happen before impact, not after it.

Nor do I believe that one must "catch raindrops," ie., the left palm is facing the sky, post impact. And, I don't believe that the hands go "down the line," and if they do, the ball is virtually guaranteed to go right. Lastly, release is something I do with a fish I don't want to keep, not something I CONSCIOUSLY do, as I come through the ball.

Yes, there is rotation, but not a conscious rolling over of the hands/forearms. The hands go around the body coming through, not down the line, and is the BEST way to square the club face. This can easily be demonstrated and is a huge eye opener. In Hogan's "5 Fundamentals," there is a wonderful shot of Hogan at impact. Notice the flat left wrist and the bent right one. No "release" there.

[BC MIST]

Further to the above, have a look at Hogan just after impact. Several things stick out as being fundamentally correct, while perhaps conflicting with some of the things that are still taught.
1. his left wrist is flat and the right wrist is bent, well after impact. There is NO pronation, rolling/turning over of the hands, flipping of the wrists.
2. his right ELBOW is also bent, one of the "secrets" to delaying the straightening of the wrists. Everyone tries to maintain the wrist angle but if they would try to maintain the right elbow angle, the wrist angle would be maintained, automatically.
3. his right foot is FLAT on the ground.
4. there is a little hip turn, but relatively little, indicating that it is NOT the turning of the hips that provide the power.
5. he is not swinging "down the line" because his left arm is snug to his chest. There would be separation if he was.
6. his left eye is behind where the ball was. Hard to come OTT this way.

[sillywilly]

Hey sillywilly, Indio say to tape the persons hands to the club

He says you guys use a lot of tape in the house. Usually when you "won't shutup." Those were his exact words I believe

He told me when we went to EL without you. I wanted you to come but he told me to delete the thread

[sillywilly]

I am pretty sure he meant the hands roll over after impact which is not a cause but a natural effect if the ball is struck properly in the first place. Kinda of like the following tip: keep your head down. If you do everything else correctly your head will stay down.

Chief, I did mean rolling the hands after after impact but I always thought I was something you did prior to contact to square the face. My mistake


BC, didn't mind the bluntness at all

Good tips guys Anyone have a pic of the hand postion, flat left and bent right wrist

[mpare]

There are great photo sequences of what BC MIST is referring to. They appear in The Methods of Golf's Masters - How They Played the Game - And What You Can Learn From Them by Dick Aultman and Ken Bowden. My scanner has been disconnected for a while. I'll hook it up this weekend and see what I can do about getting you some useful pictures.

You might want to see if you can track down a copy of the book. It was published in 1975 by Longman Canada Limited. It focuses on the following greats of the game: Harry Vardon; Walter Hagen; Gene Sarazen; Bobby Jones; Henry Cotton; Byron Nelson; Sam Snead; Ben Hogan; Bobby Locke; Cary Middlecoff; Peter Thomson; Arnold Palmer; Billy Casper; Gary Player; Lee Trevino, and Jack Nicklaus. There are swing sequence photos for each of them.

... Anyone have a pic of the hand postion, flat left and bent right wrist

[sillywilly]

Wow, thanks man. I'll check ebay and see if I can find that book thanks again

[Gulfer]

A guy demonstrated this to me at Crowbush Cove:

- Take the normal golf grip on the club.
- Put all your weight on your back foot in preparation for making baseball-like swings, that is a flat-plane swings through the air rather than the regular plane swing at a golf ball.
- Swing back and forth repeatedly through the air, and pay attention to rolling over the hands. Always keep weight on the back foot.
- Repeat a few times.

I generally use this on course on days when I'm blocking the turn over of my hands and pushing balls left (I'm a lefty).

It works for me. If your friend tries it, be careful not to overdo it to the point of hitting snap hooks - you just want to remind your hands of the required rollover to stop blocking shots.

[BC MIST]

It works for me. If your friend tries it, be careful not to overdo it to the point of hitting snap hooks - you just want to remind your hands of the required rollover to stop blocking shots.

Have you looked at the pic of HOGAN that I posted above? Do you see any roll over of the hands to square the club face at impact? There is no doubt that each of us is capable of rolling the hands over, however, it is 100%, totally unnecessary. It is still "taught" because most golfers are slicers and a rolling over of the hands may lessen the amount of slice, but it is a compensation for an over the top swing, and NOT a fundamentally correct, conscious move.

If you want pure contact, long and straight shots, do absolutely everything in your power to NOT roll the hands over. Keep the lead wrist FLAT, the trail wrist bent and allow or bring the arms to around the body, to the inside of the target line. This is what squares the club face. There is no doubt that the hands may rotate to a great degree, but this happens well into the finish of the swing, not just before and at impact. If there is still doubt, look at Hogan above.

[bNeill]

Hit it to right field, feel shoulders closed at impact.

[Started2k3]

Further to the above, have a look at Hogan just after impact. Several things stick out as being fundamentally correct, while perhaps conflicting with some of the things that are still taught.
1. his left wrist is flat and the right wrist is bent, well after impact. There is NO pronation, rolling/turning over of the hands, flipping of the wrists.
2. his right ELBOW is also bent, one of the "secrets" to delaying the straightening of the wrists. Everyone tries to maintain the wrist angle but if they would try to maintain the right elbow angle, the wrist angle would be maintained, automatically.
3. his right foot is FLAT on the ground.
4. there is a little hip turn, but relatively little, indicating that it is NOT the turning of the hips that provide the power.
5. he is not swinging "down the line" because his left arm is snug to his chest. There would be separation if he was.
6. his left eye is behind where the ball was. Hard to come OTT this way.

I know this is off topic, but did Hogan after impact: (1) put his right foot back FLAT on the ground and (2) rotate his hips back?

Personally I am cautious about what I read into static golf photos because most of the time I cannot determine what the "golf great" was trying to accomplish with the shot.

[BC MIST]

I know this is off topic, but did Hogan after impact: (1) put his right foot back FLAT on the ground and (2) rotate his hips back?

Personally I am cautious about what I read into static golf photos because most of the time I cannot determine what the "golf great" was trying to accomplish with the shot.

Judging by the hairline, your shots of Hogan were taken much later in his career and, yes, he obviously changed what he did with his hips and right leg. Regardless, what is still very obvious and to the point of the the topic, is the FLAT lead wrist, the BENT trail wrist and the bent right elbow, essentials for we mortals to follow to get the more consistent ball striking that most want.

There are exceptions. There are shots of Singh and Mickelson with their trail hands almost completely off the club at impact, and bent, something that if we did, would guarantee our never breaking 100, even on a good day. If VJ did not do this he would be the biggest hooker since....

Ironically, in the evolution of more recent golf swing motions, is the number of Tour pros who have or who are moving towards having their right foot flat on the ground at impact. Perhaps they are finally figuring out the motion of the body as a stabilizer versus a major source of power and from a stable body comes more control and more control comes more $$$$.

There is another important characteristic of a good swing that is seen in your shots of Hogan and that is how far his hands are ahead of the clubhead, just before impact, another essential, because of his keeping the lead hand FLAT. Try keeping the hands ahead of the clubhead, by rolling them over. Lastly, another essential, an inside path, is apparent in your second pic.

While you may cautious about the perceptions taken from static shots, three obvious essentials stick out:
1. hands ahead of the club head at impact
2. inside club head path
3. left wrist Flat, right wrist BENT
What kind of players would Forum members be, if all had these 3 essentials? TGM fans would be pleased.

[Started2k3]

Judging by the hairline, your shots of Hogan were taken much later in his career and, yes, he obviously changed what he did with his hips and right leg.

That makes sense ... a car accident like he and his wife had would likely change a person's swing.

[sillywilly]

so I went to the range with my friend and tried to get him to do this... turns out I do the same thing. I thought my slice was due to and outside in swing but its not. My lead wrist is not flat at all, its bent at allmost 90* !!!!!! What is a good drill for keeping this wrist flat. No matter what I did I couldn't keep it flat! We just worked on putting for the rest of the hour we were there haha

[sillywilly]

bump

[Started2k3]

so I went to the range with my friend and tried to get him to do this... turns out I do the same thing. I thought my slice was due to and outside in swing but its not. My lead wrist is not flat at all, its bent at allmost 90* !!!!!! What is a good drill for keeping this wrist flat. No matter what I did I couldn't keep it flat! We just worked on putting for the rest of the hour we were there haha

I am no pro so take it or leave it.

For my "religion" of a flat left wrist (FLW), I include this in all my swings ... including putting.

My FLW practice:
1 - putting: I find this the easiest to start with because the stroke is nice and slow
2 - chipping: I use a putting stroke with a short iron or wedge, again nice stroke because it is naturally slow
3 - pitching (no wrist cock): This is a faster swing and all the wrist are doing is rotating. I use progressively longer backswing lengths - hands at 7, 8, 9, and 10 o'clock.
4 - pitching with wrist cock: Here I make sure that I have my FLW and the shaft and forearm make about a 90° angle at the top of the backswing. Again I work on progressively longer backswing lenghts - hands at 8, 9, and 10 o'clock. (NB 10 o'clock with wrist cock is a full swing for me).

I kind of cheat by "setting" my FLW as I address the ball this way I don't have to set it during the backswing ... I try to keep it as simple as possible for myself.

I am also using this to work on killing my overswing.

Anyway have fun.

[mberube]

This is a great drill from John Dunigan to learn the proper grip and flat left hand. Once you can do this drill with a normal club, try it with a weighted club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8nXn34yUU

This is another great drill for the impact position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0s6zjfszww

Mike

[BC MIST]

This is a great drill from John Dunigan to learn the proper grip and flat left hand. Once you can do this drill with a normal club, try it with a weighted club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8nXn34yUU

This is another great drill for the impact position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0s6zjfszww

Mike

I watched only the first minute of the drill as our dial up is sooo slow. The drill is good for giving a flipper the feeling of a flat lead wrist. However, the separation of the lead upper arm from the chest, in order to do this, will lead to serious problems if used in a normal swing. In the drill, the left hand goes down the line, but in a good swing, the left hand comes around the body, a motion necessary to square the club face.

To help solve the flipping problem, I once cut the grip cap off of a 7 iron and inserted a shaft with a grip on it so that the extension was roughly 12" long. If I flipped, I whacked my hip with the end of the extension and if my left hand was flat, I did not get hit. This really helped.

What all of this is trying to achieve, is one of the most important fundamentals, and that is the hands MUST be ahead of the ball at impact, as well as having the desired flat left hand. For me, the latter is an effect and the hands ahead is the cause. For others it may be the opposite.

[mberube]

To help solve the flipping problem, I once cut the grip cap off of a 7 iron and inserted a shaft with a grip on it so that the extension was roughly 12" long. If I flipped, I whacked my hip with the end of the extension and if my left hand was flat, I did not get hit. This really helped.

That did not make you block your shots? That drill would make be push/slice big time.

Mike

[BC MIST]

That did not make you block your shots? That drill would make be push/slice big time.

If the hands/arms were pushed down the line to avoid hip/extension contact, then a push of a faded ball flight would occur. However, in a good swing the hands start coming around to the left, just before and post impact, in a similar manner to the way the hands come from the inside towards the ball just before impact. This is the motion that squares the club face and helps keep the low point of the swing arc in front of the ball, an essential to solid hits.

The problem with trying to have the hands go left is that many golfers will try to achieve this by using the shoulders and swing from the outside.

[Hacker]

This is a great drill from John Dunigan to learn the proper grip and flat left hand. Once you can do this drill with a normal club, try it with a weighted club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8nXn34yUU

This is another great drill for the impact position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0s6zjfszww

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for the two links..........I now have a good visual of what a flat left wrist is supposed to look like