Swing Harder to hit it Farther?

[GarrettDav]

Hey guys. I was just wondering something....If you take a golf swing and do the correct movements and just swing the club as hard as you can will it go farther? Or should you worry about things like time and tempo rather then sheer power. Just wondering.

[Kilroy]

Tempo rules.

[GarrettDav]

Thanks for the reply. But how is it that Tiger woods can swing it so fast and hit accurate and far shots....Is it he just has a much faster tempo? I know tiger is the extreme and he is the best but I was just curious. How would one go about improving tempo? Any drills? Any advice greatly appreciated.

[Kilroy]

When I first started playing John Daly was the king of the long ball and overswing looked like the way to go. It did not work out for me. Try swinging easy on the tee for a few rounds. See what happens.

[GarrettDav]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I guess i'll give it a try. Thanks for the help.

[Big Johnny69]

The thing is, when you see Tiger swinging "harder" he still probably has some left power left in reserve. Even long drive guys, as scary as it is, they are not swinging as hard as they can. Like Dan said, tempo and balance are keys to good contact and a sound strong swing.

[MusicMan]

go ahead and swing it as hard as you can... but you will rarely make solid cantact.

i would rather swing at 95mph, than 105mph and hit it just as far...

and tiger is a bad example cuz he doesnt hit that many fariways with the driver when he is swingin hard... you need to look at guys like fred funk, who dont swing hard, hit it a mile and are down the pipe everytime.... those guys are my idols.

[Big Johnny69]

go ahead and swing it as hard as you can... but you will rarely make solid cantact.

i would rather swing at 95mph, than 105mph and hit it just as far...

and tiger is a bad example cuz he doesnt hit that many fariways with the driver when he is swingin hard... you need to look at guys like fred funk, who dont swing hard, hit it a mile and are down the pipe everytime.... those guys are my idols.

You might want to choose someone else. Last I heard, the only miles Freddy was hitting were on the highway.

Perhaps Els would be a good example. Looks like he could fall asleep while swinging while still bombs it out there. And he is more accurate than Tiger. I only used Tiger because Garret used him as an example. I'm not so sure accuracy was the concern here, just how hard to swing.

[jonf]

Basically, swing BETTER to hit it farther.

[Old Man]

how many cock and use their wrist on most shots?

[Wknd_Warrior]

Hey guys. I was just wondering something....If you take a golf swing and do the correct movements and just swing the club as hard as you can will it go farther? Or should you worry about things like time and tempo rather then sheer power. Just wondering.

yes, and yes

...hope this clears things up

[jonf]

You might want to choose someone else. Last I heard, the only miles Freddy was hitting were on the highway.

Perhaps Els would be a good example. Looks like he could fall asleep while swinging while still bombs it out there. And he is more accurate than Tiger. I only used Tiger because Garret used him as an example. I'm not so sure accuracy was the concern here, just how hard to swing.

I say Els is a bad example. He gets his distance from the sheer length of his swing arc...because he's so freekin tall. I mean, yes, we should all try to have a swing as easy as his tempo-wise....but if you don't have his build, there's not way you're going to hit it that far with his tempo.

[Wknd_Warrior]

how many cock and use their wrist on most shots?

I'm already a pretty handsey player but have a shorter swing, so sometimes I get into trying to maximize my backswing with longer clubs (usually driver) by cocking my wrists as far as they will go. Sometimes this throws my timing, it's a work in progress.

[MusicMan]

copy this and i guarentee you gain distance... watch the lag.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjtuBfTd2hk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGCw-RgRapU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TbFragrJDo (watch ernies head... it doesnt move an inch!!!)

[Andy4Par]

I always liked watching Fred Couples. He has such an effortless swing and knocks it out there a mile. He's average height/weight. Just an even tempo beautiful swing.
Golf is the same as baseball. Harder you swing, the more difficult it is to make perfect sweetspot contact.
My best ball striking days are when I'm relaxed and swinging in a controlled, smooth tempo swing. I get caught swinging out of my shoes and I just can't seem to do anything right.

[moochie]

I have been struggling with the hit reflex from day one. Swinging hard messes me up (as does absynth). A nice easy swing seems to work well. Hard for my small brain to grasp the concept that you don't have to hit the ball hard for it to go far.

Would also appreciate drills/thoughts to cure this impulse.

[Chieflongtee]

I have been struggling with the hit reflex from day one. Swinging hard messes me up (as does absynth). A nice easy swing seems to work well. Hard for my small brain to grasp the concept that you don't have to hit the ball hard for it to go far.

Would also appreciate drills/thoughts to cure this impulse.

Hit a 9 iron 120 yards. Duplicate the same swing with the driver. Alternate between the driver and the 9 iron. Do this until it is ingrained. You can also do the following: Hit the driving range with your driver and try to hit it only 150 yards. Not an easy thing to ingrain I know but it's the way to go.

[Big Johnny69]

I say Els is a bad example. He gets his distance from the sheer length of his swing arc...because he's so freekin tall. I mean, yes, we should all try to have a swing as easy as his tempo-wise....but if you don't have his build, there's not way you're going to hit it that far with his tempo.

I would have to disagree with you on this one.


This has nothing to do with body size/build. The original poster was inquiring if swinging as fast/hard as you can would result in the best distance. General consensus is swinging better (better tempo/balance/face and ball contact) is the best way to achieve this. So I was merely pointing out an example of a pro who looks like he's swinging so easy, yet he hits the ball a mile.

There's many more out there, who are not as big of an individual as Els.

To name a few:

Goosen
Couples
Scott
Ogilvy (probably the best example of a player who can pound the ball with a very smooth tempo, yet not huge in stature. He's a fit, but thin build, about 6", but can blast the ball out there with the best of them)

But what they all have in common is great balance, tempo, swing arc/extension. It really doesn't matter about body size (to an extent of course) to hit the ball far. Just look at CHIII, guy weighs about 140 lbs soaking wet, yet he averages about 300 yds.

And what I meant by "to an extent":

A guy like Tiger is so physically strong, that the sheer power his body can create helps him to hit the ball so far. Yes he does have good mechanics, but Tiger's swing is not one of the smoothest you'll see on Tour. Where my example of Charles Howell III (CHIII) is an example of a player that uses leverage and lag to hit the ball so far. Imagine if Els was as fit (not to say he is not fit, but we all know Tiger is a fitness nut) and as physically storng as Tiger........imagine how far he'd be hitting the ball.

But if you want to see the ultimate display of swinging almost as hard as you can, check out Jason Zuback on the long drive circuit. The guy is an animal. He's actually broken his own ribs from swinging so hard.

[BC MIST]

The distance one hits the ball is a function of correct swing mechanics AND one's INATE ability to move the parts of the body responsible for distance, FAST. For most of us here a smooth, tempo based swing results in better mechanics and longer, more accurate tee shots. Ideal shots occur when the hands are ahead of the ball at impact, the club head path is from the inside with a slightly open club face at separation, the arms are on plane and where the ball contacts the face at the centre of percussion, ie., sweet spot.

To increase distance, one must swing better AND/OR harder. The latter will definitely increase club head speed, however, unless ones continues to swing in sequence and in balance, accuracy will suffer. A 25% increase in effort/work will NOT result in a 25% increase in club head speed, even if mechanics remain perfect. Physics says so.

Reference is frequently made to golfers who create a "WIDE" or "BIG" swing arc because they take the club back "low and slow" or because they are tall. This is untue. The only arc of importance is the DOWNSWING arc and the more vertical the golfer can move his hands/club head, the more club head speed that can potentially be created. What is perceived as a big arc going back is actually a very small arc, if one looks at it geometrically. The left arm must be extended going back and it is irrelevant whether the wrists are hinged early or late, to produce maximum club head speed coming down. Physical strength is a factor is distance potential and there is a high correlation between size(Ernie Els) and strength. However, Ben Hogan, at 5'7" and 150 pounds, was hitting the ball 275 to 300 yards, long before 460 cc drivers and the ProV1.

Others believe that creating "lag" on the downswing is the secret. The average person can create an angle between the lead arm and the club shaft of 90*. To increase this (lag) is almost impossible, unless the left wrists cups and when this happens accuracy and shots to the right, slices/fades, result. What APPEARS to be a huge increase in wrist kock, Garcia, Hogan, is really the flattening of the arms on the downswing. PERSPECTIVE makes us SEE the left arm/club shaft angle become very acute, but because the left arm moves to a flatter, more horizontal plane, the left arm/club shaft angle, while looking more acute, it is not, or a lot less that what seems to be. Regardless, getting the hands ahead of the ball at impact is the goal and it does not matter how it gets done.

While Fred Couples, Ernie Els and the like have smooth swings, they are not swinging EASY. Couples hits the ball very hard, without the perception that he is doing so. No one can hit the ball 300 yards, swinging easy. The bottom line is, swing as hard as you can, as correctly as you can, without the former changing the latter.

[jonf]

I would have to disagree with you on this one.


This has nothing to do with body size/build. The original poster was inquiring if swinging as fast/hard as you can would result in the best distance. General consensus is swinging better (better tempo/balance/face and ball contact) is the best way to achieve this. So I was merely pointing out an example of a pro who looks like he's swinging so easy, yet he hits the ball a mile.

There's many more out there, who are not as big of an individual as Els.

To name a few:

Goosen
Couples
Scott
Ogilvy (probably the best example of a player who can pound the ball with a very smooth tempo, yet not huge in stature. He's a fit, but thin build, about 6", but can blast the ball out there with the best of them)

But what they all have in common is great balance, tempo, swing arc/extension. It really doesn't matter about body size (to an extent of course) to hit the ball far. Just look at CHIII, guy weighs about 140 lbs soaking wet, yet he averages about 300 yds.

And what I meant by "to an extent":

A guy like Tiger is so physically strong, that the sheer power his body can create helps him to hit the ball so far. Yes he does have good mechanics, but Tiger's swing is not one of the smoothest you'll see on Tour. Where my example of Charles Howell III (CHIII) is an example of a player that uses leverage and lag to hit the ball so far. Imagine if Els was as fit (not to say he is not fit, but we all know Tiger is a fitness nut) and as physically storng as Tiger........imagine how far he'd be hitting the ball.

But if you want to see the ultimate display of swinging almost as hard as you can, check out Jason Zuback on the long drive circuit. The guy is an animal. He's actually broken his own ribs from swinging so hard.

I certainly don't disagree with anything you said here. But The fact that Ernie has massively long arms means that his swing arc is longer, and hence he gets greater clubhead speed.

And, CHIII doesn't exactly look like he's not swinging hard.

BAsically, my theory is this...swing as hard as you possibly can while still being able to execute your swing. For most amateurs, this means slow it down.

[ironmaster15213]

My advice is quit using the term swing harder, it's not quite accurate. Think timing, tempo and acceleration. You swing faster not harder, when you swing faster your timing is still the same it's just everything is flowing just a little faster. If you think harder, it's very easy to swing your upper body faster but forget about the lower body which has to lead that upper body in a good swing. Most of the time only bad things come from this lower body being out of sequence with the upper body. Well just my 2 cents worth of advice .

[GarrettDav]

Thanks for all the help guys. much appreciated. i'll try and swing in better tempo next time and see how it works...also, how exactly does the lag work? can it be practiced or is it something that comes naturally?

[GarthM]

I have had one instructor show me a drill meant to improve lag. This may sound weird to many people out there, but bear with me. This drill is meant to be done in slow motion. Do not try to swing this way. This drill is also meant to be practiced in tandem with tempo drills. 4 balls tempo, 4 balls with this drill. Do that 4 times and then hit 16 balls using your normal routine.

Take your normal setup with a mid-iron, and address the ball. Go to the top of your backswing and then bring your hands down to waist high, making sure you keep as much angle between the shaft and your left forearm as possible. Pause at this position briefly to get the feel for it. Then continue to bring the hands in front of your body, again keeping the angles until the club head is in line with where the ball should be in your setup. This is the key. You will feel like your hands are a foot in front of the ball but don't worry. Pause briefly. Holding the angle with your hands, rotate your body towards the target until you are facing the target. Your hands should be about shoulder level at this point, and yes the club face will be pointing to the sky (don't worry about it). If your flexibility allows continue to raise your hands up to a finish position, yes while still keeping the angles intact. You will really feel this in your lower back. If it hurts, don't do it, stop at shoulder high.

Do this a couple times and then go ahead and hit 4 balls, thinking only of getting to your proper finish position, facing the target, having completed your follow through properly and in balance.

When done properly I have found that I get much more zip on the ball, and contact is very solid. Based on my playing recently, perhaps I should be using this drill more than I am ;-).....

Use as you wish, your mileage may vary.

GarthM

[byerxa]

Like others have mentioned you will get much more out of swinging "properly" making solid contact then simply swinging harder. Sorry to say, but most of us are not near good enough to worry about swinging harder - we will get way more benefit from a perceived "slower" but mechanically more sound swing. It is amazing how much a mis-hit takes off distance even with a high SS.

Looking at someone like Tiger and comparing how "hard" they swing vs. your swing is suicide. These guys are simply better able to coordinate a golf swing, i.e., its why we have day jobs and they don't (other than golf). You need to figure out what you are capable of and living with that.

Another example is a friend from the TO area who is a good +2 or +3. He regularly wins his CC, usually finishes in the top 15 at the national CC tourny, and has qualified for the US Mid Am. He has worked hard on his game for years. 20 years ago I could easily out drive him but of course he shot 72 while I shot 92. Only after years of solid golf did he start to work on getting more distance - his focus was to hit it solidly and keep it in play.

[BC MIST]

I certainly don't disagree with anything you said here. But The fact that Ernie has massively long arms means that his swing arc is longer, and hence he gets greater clubhead speed.
And, CHIII doesn't exactly look like he's not swinging hard.

Would you care to explain why "massively long arms" and the resulting "long swing arc" is so essential in creating club head speed. And where does this long swing arc show itself? Why does CHIII short arc hit the ball father than Ernie, if a long swing arc is so important?

Years ago I stood beside a local pro of the same size and height where the tips of his fingers came only to my wrist joints but he drove the ball 25+ yards past me, with old fashioned equipment. Would my long arc not have been the equalizer if it is so important?

IMO, while solid mechanics that I outlined above helps to create CHS, a persons inate ability to move the arms/body fast is the biggest contributor. Some people have the ability to run fast, jump high and to throw far while others can do none of these. It is all built in. Physical training helps to increase CHS, but relatively little.

My swing mechanics have made me a normally accurate ball striker for decades, but at the same time, I have always been a very short driver of the golf ball. Why? Because my muscle structure is that of a long distance runner(short hitter) and not that of a sprinter(long driver). Do long hitters have a higher ratio of fast twitch muscle fibres than shorter hitters?

[Started2k3]

For those with little knowledge (like myself) on fast and slow twitch muscles here are a couple of links.

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/fast...h-muscles.html
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/endurance-muscles.html

[jonf]

Would you care to explain why "massively long arms" and the resulting "long swing arc" is so essential in creating club head speed. And where does this long swing arc show itself? Why does CHIII short arc hit the ball father than Ernie, if a long swing arc is so important?

Years ago I stood beside a local pro of the same size and height where the tips of his fingers came only to my wrist joints but he drove the ball 25+ yards past me, with old fashioned equipment. Would my long arc not have been the equalizer if it is so important?

IMO, while solid mechanics that I outlined above helps to create CHS, a persons inate ability to move the arms/body fast is the biggest contributor. Some people have the ability to run fast, jump high and to throw far while others can do none of these. It is all built in. Physical training helps to increase CHS, but relatively little.

My swing mechanics have made me a normally accurate ball striker for decades, but at the same time, I have always been a very short driver of the golf ball. Why? Because my muscle structure is that of a long distance runner(short hitter) and not that of a sprinter(long driver). Do long hitters have a higher ratio of fast twitch muscle fibres than shorter hitters?

I said its important....its not ALL important. Are you trying to tell me that it doesn't help your power to be a big, tall guy? In the same post you're saying that his size has nothing to do with it, and then go on to explain the importance of muscle structure....these two seem related to me.

Maybe my physics is wrong (I wouldn't be surprised), but Ernie's shoulder turn doesn't need to be as fast as someone with shorter arms. If Ernie and CHIII were to both turn their shoulders at the same speed, Ernie would hit it farther, as the clubhead is moving faster.

[MusicMan]

Agreed.