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  1. #1
    Rob
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    Question Closest point of relief

    Your ball lies on the right hand side of a cart path, which runs down the right side of the fairway. Assuming you are right handed, where would my closest point of relief be?

  2. #2
    RulesNut Gary Hill is on a distinguished road Gary Hill's Avatar
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    1. You must determine your nearest point of relief from the cart path which is not nearer the hole, not in a hazard, and not on a putting green.

    Starting to the right side of the cart path, you would take a stance with the club with which you expect to play your next shot. Place your heels off the cart path and ground your club. Play a tee in the ground at the middle of your club face. This place will be approximately one yard from the cart path.

    Go to the left side of the cart path. Take another stance where your grounded club is clear of the cart path. Place another tee in the ground at the middle of your clubface. This place will be approximately four inches from the cart path.

    Measure the distance from your ball to each tee (many such trials may be needed on a curving cart path). The tee that is CLOSEST to your BALL is the nearest point of relief. There can be only one NEAREST point of relief.

    In your example, if the cart path is forty feet wide, I can safely assume that the nearest point of relief would be on the right side of the cart path. However, if the cart path is only six inches wide, a stance off the right side of the cart path would put your grounded club at LEAST a yard from the ball while a stance off the left side of the cart path would place your grounded club at MOST one foot from the ball. With a very, very narrow cart path, no matter which side of the cart path the ball lies nearest, the nearest point of relief would be on the left side of the cart path.

    Sometimes the nearest point of relief may be obvious without repeated trials and measuring, but no automatic assumptions should be made just by looking at the ball in relation to which side of the cart path the ball is nearer.

    2. Once you have determined this nearest point of relief, you are allowed to drop a ball within one club length (any club may be used here) of this point which is not nearer the hole, not in a hazard, not on a wrong putting green and avoids interference by the cart path. Remember, complete relief MUST be taken when taking relief from an immovable obstruction, an abnormal ground condition (ground under repair, casual water, etc.), or a wrong putting green.

    TIP: Do not touch your ball until AFTER you have determined your nearest point of relief and marked out the area where you are required to drop. That way, if for some reason you decide not to take relief from the cart path (e.g. your drop area turns out to be in the jungle), you are not penalized for lifted your ball without taking the drop.

    Note: My apologies to left handed players since all the stated points will NOT be the nearest points of relief for lefties.

    Edit Note: spelling only
    Last edited by Gary Hill; 09-03-2001 at 01:23 PM.

  3. #3
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    Water

    I have a question concerning the closest point of relief after bouncing into the water from green side.

    A player hits to an slightly elevated green that has a large pond below and to the right of the green. The player's ball travels over land all the way, say 190-200 yards, and lands on the hillside to the right of the green. The ball then bounces severely to the right and goes into the pond, unrecoverable.

    Where is the player's closest point of relief?
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
    Colby

  4. #4
    RulesNut Gary Hill is on a distinguished road Gary Hill's Avatar
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    Nearest point of relief DOES NOT APPLY when taking relief from a water hazard!!!

    Nearest point of relief is only used to determine the reference point for taking relief from the following:

    1. Immovable Obstruction
    2. Abnormal Ground Condition
    3. Wrong Putting Green

    If a ball is in or may be lost in a water hazard, the player MUST proceed under the Water Hazard Rule. (Rule 26-1)

    If you would like an explanation of how to proceed under the water hazard rule in the scenario you decribed, just let me know.

  5. #5
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    Please

    Gary,

    I would LOVE an explaination. I find reading the water hazard ruling like my old Latin classes, "huh, what was that again?!?"

    Sorry for using wrong terminology.

    Gary,

    I just checked, and I think I figured it out. Tell me if I am wrong.

    You would play the ball as close as possible to where it was last played as any drop where it did cross into the hazard will be closer to the hole.
    Last edited by Colby; 08-06-2002 at 03:23 PM.
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
    Colby

  6. #6
    Hopelessly Addicted el tigre is on a distinguished road el tigre's Avatar
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    Actually Colby, I think you could drop on the other side of the hazard, since this would be BEHIND the hazard (or on the opposite margin for a lateral water hazard), as long as the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard was BETWEEN the hole and the spot is dropped (or equidistant from the hole for a lateral water hazard). No doubt Gary will set me straight if I'm wrong here.

    But you raise an interesting option. If I am chipping/putting on #17 at Sawgrass and my ball goes into the water, my best option is likely to chip/putt over again from where I last played (under penalty of one stroke), than to take a drop anywhere. Is that right, Gary?

  7. #7
    RulesNut Gary Hill is on a distinguished road Gary Hill's Avatar
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    Colby - There are three options under the water hazard rule.

    Option A. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played.
    This is pretty straight forward, but often overlooked by players as a viable option.


    Option B. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped.

    Okay, this one is fairly simple as long as you proceed in steps.

    Step 1. Determine the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard. This determination is generally an "educated guess" agreed to by all. All further procedure is taken from this point, so I usually ask the player to mark the spot on the margin line with a tee. The reason the Rule says "last crossed" is that in the case of a winding creek, the ball may cross the margin of the hazard many times on the way to its final resting place, but only the LAST point where it crossed the margin into the hazard is applicable.

    Step 2. Two points determine a line, so you now have an imaginary line formed from the HOLE to your MARK. This line extends away from your mark FOREVER. You may drop your ball anywhere ON this line, no nearer the hole. In effect, you may drop you ball on the line right at to the margin line of the hazard or you may walk AWAY from the hole down that line as far as you like before you drop. Sometimes you will see players walking some distance down that line to get a better lie or a better "fit" for distance to the flagstick.
    BTW - The ball has to be dropped ON THE LINE. No standing on the line and dropping an arm's length to the side.


    Option C. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.

    I would like to emphasize the word ONLY in the above option. This option is available ONLY if the water hazard is defined as a lateral water hazard (RED stakes).

    Step 1. Determine the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the lateral water hazard exactly as in Option 2.
    Step 2. You may drop a ball anywhere within two-clubs lengths of this point but not in the water hazard nor closer to the hole.

    Additionally, you may find the point on the OPPOSITE margin of the lateral water hazard which is the same distance from the hole as the actual point where the ball last crossed the margin of the lateral water hazard. You may drop a ball anywhere within 2 club lengths of this point but not in the water hazard nor closer to the hole.

    This "opposite margin" point is seldom used because it would generally result in forcing you to hit over the later water hazard. It is most often used in a case where the lateral water hazard runs directly down the middle of the fairway.


    Colby - now to your specific scenario

    It is unclear from your description whether the "pond" is marked as a water hazard (YELLOW stakes) or as a later water hazard (RED stakes).

    1. If the pond is marked as a water hazard (YELLOW stakes)

    You may elect Option 1 or Option 2.

    If you elect Option 2, you may go to the far right side of the pond and drop a ball anywhere on the line drawn from hole to the point where your ball entered the pond, extending across the lake, and on forever. By definition, there is no point on the left side of the pond that is BOTH not in the hazard nor closer to the hole.

    2. If the pond is marked as a lateral water hazard (RED stakes)

    You may elect Option 1, 2 or 3. Options 1 and 2 would be as above.

    Under option 3, you would have to determine the point where your ball entered the pond. From this point, you would have to mark out a two club length drop area that is both not closer to the hole nor within the margin of the pond. If this point happens to be the shortest point between the hole and the pond, this could be a very, very narrow area indeed.

  8. #8
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    Thanks

    That was great Gary.

    As such, I don't recall seeing any markers on the hazard, now I could be wrong, but I don't recall any.
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
    Colby

  9. #9
    RulesNut Gary Hill is on a distinguished road Gary Hill's Avatar
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    el tigre -

    Correct. You have described the perfect scenario for Option A.

    BTW - This brings to mind another useful tip for those of you who absolutely cannot get out a bunker on the first or second attempt.

    You have the option of declaring your ball unplayable (Rule 28) and under penalty of one stroke playing your next stroke from where your previous stroke was played (hopefully not into the bunker again). This may save you a stroke or two until you can sharpen your bunker skills.

    Colby -

    If, in fact, there are no markers around the pond, then by definition the pond is a water hazard.

    The only exception is when it is physically impossible to drop a ball behind the water hazard. The water hazard would then, by definition, become a lateral water hazard.

    For example, if there were no margins stakes or margin lines on the 18th hole at Pebble Beach, then the Pacific Ocean would automatically become a lateral water hazard.

  10. #10
    Hopelessly Addicted el tigre is on a distinguished road el tigre's Avatar
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    Thanks for the bunker tip, Gary. I have one to add to that.

    I've used Rule 28 in a bunker when I've had an impossible lie - i.e., under the lip of the bunker or almost totally buried. Since it would almost certainly take two strokes to get out anyway, I've taken the option of dropping in the bunker under penalty of one stroke - at least then I'll have a reasonable chance of a good lie in a good spot.

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