Marshes conditions

[Smoothie]

Playing at the Marshes tomorrow, anyone play there recently? How are the conditions, fairways and greens? Fast greens?
Thanks!

[PEI Golfing]

Playing at the Marshes tomorrow, anyone play there recently? How are the conditions, fairways and greens? Fast greens?
Thanks!

Fairways running fairly fast. Greens are the normal Marshes 9-10 on the stimp.

Weather has been dry, so the rain over the next few days should slow things up a bit.........

Careful if laying up on the #4 fairway before the Marsh, and before the #14 creek in front of the green. Hit it crisp and it will run off the end of the fairway very quickly...............

Also, fairways and rough are cut very short along the water on #2 and #10, so anything that hits a mound will roll into the water in a hurry...........Do not have to tell you to play the side of the fairway away from the water the entire length.

[3Jack]

Fairways running fairly fast. Greens are the normal Marshes 9-10 on the stimp.

Weather has been dry, so the rain over the next few days should slow things up a bit.........

Careful if laying up on the #4 fairway before the Marsh, and before the #14 creek in front of the green. Hit it crisp and it will run off the end of the fairway very quickly...............

Also, fairways and rough are cut very short along the water on #2 and #10, so anything that hits a mound will roll into the water in a hurry...........Do not have to tell you to play the side of the fairway away from the water the entire length.

I played The Marshes yesterday for the first time this year - usually just a rare treat to play it, but I gotta say that I wasn't too impressed with the conditions / service this time out. I love the layout, setup (6 par 3s, 6 par 4s, 6 par 5s) and the general look of the course, but I found that the edging of the bunkers was shaggy, weeds growing along inside the bunker edges - making many of the holes look less than what a $100 per pop course should look like. The tee boxes also seemed a bit scruffy. The greens were rolling ok, but they were pockmarked with so many ball marks it made a few of the greens somewhat unsightly.

I know it's a public / corporate golf outing facility, but wow.

Also, I know that the second hole is ranked amongst the most difficult in the country by some magazine poll, but would it kill them to grow the rough along the water? I was fortunate enough to par the hole, but the rest of my foursome put at least two balls in the water each... just a couple or three inches of rough there would a) save a couple of penalty strokes b) make the hole a bit more playable for average hack, c) would speed up play.

On top of all that, it was cart path only. GRRRRRR! I know we had some significant rain the previous couple of days, but you'd think that a RTJ course would drain a bit better than it does. Finally, the starter / pro shop failed to inform us that it was cart path only. We only found this out when our cart went into auto-shutdown mode when we attempted to drive onto the fairway. Nice technology and all, but a cruddy / embarrassing customer experience. Why not offer players the option to walk when it's cart-path-only? For that matter, why not offer that option regardless of the carting-rule-of-the-day? I'd gladly pay the same price to walk. (Don't tell me that there's too much room between holes either and it would slow play down, that's the biggest myth in the cart versus walker 'debate'). Yes, your cart will get from the 7th green to the 8th tee faster than I will, but at the tend of the day, with all the fiddling involved with driving the cart / going back to the cart when you have the wrong club / waiting for your riding partner to hit, circling around etc. etc. etc., I'd bet dollars to donuts that walkers outpace riders.

Thanks for letting me vent. I do still like The Marshes, and I grant that conditions can vary from day to day and week to week, but for my money, I expect more.

[John]

When it's cart path only are there markers at the Marshes? I don't remember seeing yardage markers?

[jvincent]

They added yardages to some (all ?) of the sprinkler heads a while back. Other than that, there's nothing else that I remember.

[Indio]

I am anxiously waiting for the inevitable response complete with links to the web page

[3Jack]

I checked while I was playing yesterday, and yes, there are yardage markers on the sprinklerheads... not sure if it's on every sprinkler head but they're there... measured to the center of the green I'd imagine. Good enough for me - GPS drives me batty. I'd rather know if the flag is front, back, or center, know the distance to the center, and then just eyeball from there.

[PEI Golfing]

I played The Marshes yesterday for the first time this year - usually just a rare treat to play it, but I gotta say that I wasn't too impressed with the conditions / service this time out. I love the layout, setup (6 par 3s, 6 par 4s, 6 par 5s) and the general look of the course, but I found that the edging of the bunkers was shaggy, weeds growing along inside the bunker edges - making many of the holes look less than what a $100 per pop course should look like. The tee boxes also seemed a bit scruffy. The greens were rolling ok, but they were pockmarked with so many ball marks it made a few of the greens somewhat unsightly.

I know it's a public / corporate golf outing facility, but wow.

Also, I know that the second hole is ranked amongst the most difficult in the country by some magazine poll, but would it kill them to grow the rough along the water? I was fortunate enough to par the hole, but the rest of my foursome put at least two balls in the water each... just a couple or three inches of rough there would a) save a couple of penalty strokes b) make the hole a bit more playable for average hack, c) would speed up play.

On top of all that, it was cart path only. GRRRRRR! I know we had some significant rain the previous couple of days, but you'd think that a RTJ course would drain a bit better than it does. Finally, the starter / pro shop failed to inform us that it was cart path only. We only found this out when our cart went into auto-shutdown mode when we attempted to drive onto the fairway. Nice technology and all, but a cruddy / embarrassing customer experience. Why not offer players the option to walk when it's cart-path-only? For that matter, why not offer that option regardless of the carting-rule-of-the-day? I'd gladly pay the same price to walk. (Don't tell me that there's too much room between holes either and it would slow play down, that's the biggest myth in the cart versus walker 'debate'). Yes, your cart will get from the 7th green to the 8th tee faster than I will, but at the tend of the day, with all the fiddling involved with driving the cart / going back to the cart when you have the wrong club / waiting for your riding partner to hit, circling around etc. etc. etc., I'd bet dollars to donuts that walkers outpace riders.

Thanks for letting me vent. I do still like The Marshes, and I grant that conditions can vary from day to day and week to week, but for my money, I expect more.

Thats unfortunate your experience was not up to the standard of your previous experiences at The Marshes.
I always suggest to people who are not happy with their experience to contact Tony Dunn who runs the Golf Operations. Tony is a great guy, and does not want to see one disatisfied customer. Believe me Tony wants to hear from you !!!
PM me if you want to discuss further..........

You must have been playing your round in the morning yesterday, because after 12:00 noon the "Flashing Yellow" message was sent out to all carts that it was no longer cart path only, but was now 90 degree rule which certainly sped up the pace of play.

Regarding drainage, I do not think there are many courses around Ottawa that drain as well as the Marshes. Ask some of the people who saw the construction of the course. It has better drainage than most city subdivisions............
There will always be a few soft spots here and there.............I have played the course more than 180 times over the past few years and in all conditions. Only remember it being shut down once after a number of days of very heavy rain......
FYI, I remember playing the Marshes a couple of years ago after a few days of heavy rain. It was suprising dry and only soft in a few spots, and the bunkers were bone dry. However, I went to other end of city and played an unnamed Club Link Course, which at the same time had half the holes on one course shut completely down and and the other half should have been also. Also remember that most bunkers on that Clublink course were full of water.

[LobWedge]

I played The Marshes yesterday for the first time this year - usually just a rare treat to play it, but I gotta say that I wasn't too impressed with the conditions / service this time out. I love the layout, setup (6 par 3s, 6 par 4s, 6 par 5s) and the general look of the course, but I found that the edging of the bunkers was shaggy, weeds growing along inside the bunker edges - making many of the holes look less than what a $100 per pop course should look like. The tee boxes also seemed a bit scruffy. The greens were rolling ok, but they were pockmarked with so many ball marks it made a few of the greens somewhat unsightly.

I know it's a public / corporate golf outing facility, but wow.

Also, I know that the second hole is ranked amongst the most difficult in the country by some magazine poll, but would it kill them to grow the rough along the water? I was fortunate enough to par the hole, but the rest of my foursome put at least two balls in the water each... just a couple or three inches of rough there would a) save a couple of penalty strokes b) make the hole a bit more playable for average hack, c) would speed up play.

On top of all that, it was cart path only. GRRRRRR! I know we had some significant rain the previous couple of days, but you'd think that a RTJ course would drain a bit better than it does. Finally, the starter / pro shop failed to inform us that it was cart path only. We only found this out when our cart went into auto-shutdown mode when we attempted to drive onto the fairway. Nice technology and all, but a cruddy / embarrassing customer experience. Why not offer players the option to walk when it's cart-path-only? For that matter, why not offer that option regardless of the carting-rule-of-the-day? I'd gladly pay the same price to walk. (Don't tell me that there's too much room between holes either and it would slow play down, that's the biggest myth in the cart versus walker 'debate'). Yes, your cart will get from the 7th green to the 8th tee faster than I will, but at the tend of the day, with all the fiddling involved with driving the cart / going back to the cart when you have the wrong club / waiting for your riding partner to hit, circling around etc. etc. etc., I'd bet dollars to donuts that walkers outpace riders.

Thanks for letting me vent. I do still like The Marshes, and I grant that conditions can vary from day to day and week to week, but for my money, I expect more.

Agreed!

I had the same experience (including the cartpath only thing) when I played there two Fridays ago. The greens were bruital. You've got marshals driving around the course, gabbing away with thier member buddies, on a cartpath only day, so you know it's going to be slower anyway. Meanwhile, I'm repairing 4-5 ballmarks on every green (the majority of which were on the lines of my putts ). The marshals should be religiously patrolling the green complexes, fixing ball marks and such.

It's a shame when the "shine" wears off after a while and people start getting complacent, watching the money roll in while the service level curve flattens out. I'm not saying that everyone there is an issue. There are some mighty friendly and conscientious people who work there, but there's some wear around the fringes (both on the course, and in administration) that makes it a lot harder to justify paying the bucks to play there.

[MusicMan]

i agree with LW and 3Jack.

nothing against the course, its a great layout and all... BUT, it could be MUCH better... i agree about the ball marks, i played there 2 weeks ago with a client and between the 2 of us must of fixed over 100 ball marks.

[PEI Golfing]

All operations want to hear feedback from their customers whether good or bad........
Thats how they will continue to provide their customers with the high standard that they deserve.

My question to all of you who have expressed disappointment in the service or conditions of the course is: "Have you contacted The Marshes directly regarding these issues"???

Private golf clubs have general meetings to discuss issues. I know Clublink have their regular meetings as well to bring up problems.

If I went into Golftown and bought a pair of shoes that were falling apart, do you think I would just sit on this forum and complain. No for darn sure, I would see the fellow who sold them to me or speak to Management and they would correct the problem............

Gentlemen it works the same for all golf courses.............!!!

[Big Johnny69]

All operations want to hear feedback from their customers whether good or bad........
Thats how they will continue to provide their customers with the high standard that they deserve.

My question to all of you who have expressed disappointment in the service or conditions of the course is: "Have you contacted The Marshes directly regarding these issues"???

Private golf clubs have general meetings to discuss issues. I know Clublink have their regular meetings as well to bring up problems.

If I went into Golftown and bought a pair of shoes that were falling apart, do you think I would just sit on this forum and complain. No for darn sure, I would see the fellow who sold them to me or speak to Management and they would correct the problem............

Gentlemen it works the same for all golf courses.............!!!

Mr. PEI makes some good points here.

[spackler]

What the heck is this forum for if not for sharing our experience about golfing in Ottawa? If I'm getting ready to pay $100 to play at the Marshes, I want to know if the greens look like a 14 year old fry cook's face. I want to know if there are weeds growing in the bunkers. By all means let the course administration know about it, but I want to hear about it too.

[Big Johnny69]

What the heck is this forum for if not for sharing our experience about golfing in Ottawa? If I'm getting ready to pay $100 to play at the Marshes, I want to know if the greens look like a 14 year old fry cook's face. I want to know if there are weeds growing in the bunkers. By all means let the course administration know about it, but I want to hear about it too.

Exactly spackler. It's good to hear about the course conditions, but it would've been nice to see if someone brought up their concerns with the course to see what their respective thougths would be.

[spackler]

Exactly spackler. It's good to hear about the course conditions, but it would've been nice to see if someone brought up their concerns with the course to see what their respective thougths would be.

Yes, but surely the course has a responsibility to not let conditions get to that point. It's not like they need feedback from customers to know there are weeds in the bunkers.

[Big Johnny69]

Yes, but surely the course has a responsibility to not let conditions get to that point. It's not like they need feedback from customers to know there are weeds in the bunkers.

But obviously something is being missed, so reporting it would be a good idea.

[jonf]

Yes, but surely the course has a responsibility to not let conditions get to that point. It's not like they need feedback from customers to know there are weeds in the bunkers.

Precisely...a course charging what they are charging should be on top of the conditions. They should not have to wait for a complaint in order to realize there is a problem. At the course I work at, at least one of the superintendants tours the course every day. Problems are fixed well before they become issues with the members. That is a big part of the reason that the members pay the fees that they do.

[3Jack]

Precisely...a course charging what they are charging should be on top of the conditions. They should not have to wait for a complaint in order to realize there is a problem. At the course I work at, at least one of the superintendants tours the course every day. Problems are fixed well before they become issues with the members. That is a big part of the reason that the members pay the fees that they do.

Bingo. I can turn a blind eye to weeds in bunkers and customer service oversights $40 courses.

Did I mention that when I arrived at 6.25 for my 7 am tee time that the range was not yet available and the carts weren't ready?

Not a huge deal, but again, not the kind of thing on which The Marshes has built its brand.

As for informing the staff, to be honest, at the time I didn't think of it. I had to get home for an appointed family outing and we didn't stick around. I posted my comments here as a matter of convenience, and because sometimes its a bit easier to be completely honest / a bit braver / not be intimidated behind a keyboard.

I feel I was completely fair and balanced in my comments and I stand behind them. I would be happy to discuss this with a Marshes representative, but I feel that calling them a couple of days post-round would be a bit tacky, like I was trying to formulate my opinion over time for greater effectiveness in an effort to gain preferred with the management. Not really my style, so I post these comments here in hopes that Marshes staff may run across this thread and garner some insight into the demographic to which they market.

Perhaps with Eagle Creek having gone clublink a small measure of complacency has set in. Here's hoping they can put the shine back on, because it's not that far off, despite how much I have blathered on about their current shortcomings.

[3Jack]

Thats unfortunate your experience was not up to the standard of your previous experiences at The Marshes.
I always suggest to people who are not happy with their experience to contact Tony Dunn who runs the Golf Operations. Tony is a great guy, and does not want to see one disatisfied customer. Believe me Tony wants to hear from you !!!
PM me if you want to discuss further..........

You must have been playing your round in the morning yesterday, because after 12:00 noon the "Flashing Yellow" message was sent out to all carts that it was no longer cart path only, but was now 90 degree rule which certainly sped up the pace of play.

Regarding drainage, I do not think there are many courses around Ottawa that drain as well as the Marshes. Ask some of the people who saw the construction of the course. It has better drainage than most city subdivisions............
There will always be a few soft spots here and there.............I have played the course more than 180 times over the past few years and in all conditions. Only remember it being shut down once after a number of days of very heavy rain......
FYI, I remember playing the Marshes a couple of years ago after a few days of heavy rain. It was suprising dry and only soft in a few spots, and the bunkers were bone dry. However, I went to other end of city and played an unnamed Club Link Course, which at the same time had half the holes on one course shut completely down and and the other half should have been also. Also remember that most bunkers on that Clublink course were full of water.

Thanks for your reply, lots of good points here. I have heard many times that Mr. Dunn is a good fellow and very customer service oriented. Being in customer service myself, I know that it is impossible to please everyone all of the time, so I am willing to give the course another shot - by no means am I boycotting it - but I do expect a bit more attention to detail at the rate they charge.

On another note, do you think that Mr. Dunn would entertain walkers at either a slightly reduced rate or standard rate, or have an hour or two during the day designated for / available for walkers? If that were to happen, I think it would be a bold statement to the golfing community here in Ottawa.

As you can tell, I abhore carts, I feel that they are a scourge on the game. It boils my blood to see young, fit men and women traversing the course by this form of conveyence. Only those who are medically unable to walk due to age, injury - be it short term, long term or permanent, disease, or other unlisted affliction should be allowed to ride. But that's a completely separate thread, one which I'm sure I have contributed to in the past.

[jvincent]

On another note, do you think that Mr. Dunn would entertain walkers at either a slightly reduced rate or standard rate, or have an hour or two during the day designated for / available for walkers? If that were to happen, I think it would be a bold statement to the golfing community here in Ottawa.

Unfortunately that is unlikely to ever happen with the current hole routing.

The Marshes is simply not laid out to allow walking. The distances between some of the holes would push rounds to 5 hour range.

[PEI Golfing]

Thanks for your reply, lots of good points here. I have heard many times that Mr. Dunn is a good fellow and very customer service oriented. Being in customer service myself, I know that it is impossible to please everyone all of the time, so I am willing to give the course another shot - by no means am I boycotting it - but I do expect a bit more attention to detail at the rate they charge.

On another note, do you think that Mr. Dunn would entertain walkers at either a slightly reduced rate or standard rate, or have an hour or two during the day designated for / available for walkers? If that were to happen, I think it would be a bold statement to the golfing community here in Ottawa.

As you can tell, I abhore carts, I feel that they are a scourge on the game. It boils my blood to see young, fit men and women traversing the course by this form of conveyence. Only those who are medically unable to walk due to age, injury - be it short term, long term or permanent, disease, or other unlisted affliction should be allowed to ride. But that's a completely separate thread, one which I'm sure I have contributed to in the past.

Thanks for your reply 3Jack. Tony Dunn is the person you should contact regarding any concerns or issues you have with the course policy or future policy regarding carts/walking. You can always send him a note by e-mail tony.dunn@brookstreet.ca or phone 613.271.3375. Knowing Tony, he would certainly like to hear your feedback , and do everything to make your next visit a more positive experience.

[3Jack]

Unfortunately that is unlikely to ever happen with the current hole routing.

The Marshes is simply not laid out to allow walking. The distances between some of the holes would push rounds to 5 hour range.

I disagree. The terrain is exceedling flat, making it more walk friendly than Renfrew and Haute Plaines, where walking is allowed. I know the walk between the 7th green and the 8th tee is a long one, but it's not any longer than the walk between what was the 12th green and the 13th tee at greensmere (I can't recall if that's the black, gold, or green nine now)... The walk from the 9th green to the 10th tee there isn't a doozy either, nor is the walk from the 11th green to the 12 tee... the 14th green to the 15th tee is a bit like going from the 7th green to the 8th tee, but the time you save carrying makes up for the gains you'd make from green to tee.

To me the name of the game is golf, not golf cart.

Carts are merely revenue generators, but as I mentioned before, I'd pay the same rate the walk. (I know, not everyone would.) What was a RTJ Sr., or any other designer for that matter thinking when they went about designing a course that wasn't walker-friendly (thought I'd argue that the Marshes is emminently walkable).

[3Jack]

Thanks for your reply 3Jack. Tony Dunn is the person you should contact regarding any concerns or issues you have with the course policy or future policy regarding carts/walking. You can always send him a note by e-mail tony.dunn@brookstreet.ca or phone 613.271.3375. Knowing Tony, he would certainly like to hear your feedback , and do everything to make your next visit a more positive experience.

Thanks for this. Again, I have been quite impressed with the Marshes in the past, but was honestly surprised / taken aback the lack of attention to detail.

[PEI Golfing]

I disagree. I know the walk between the 7th green and the 8th tee is a long one, but it's not any longer than the walk between what was the 12th green and the 13th tee at greensmere (I can't recall if that's the black, gold, or green nine now)... The walk from the 9th green to the 10th tee there isn't a doozy either, nor is the walk from the 11th green to the 12 tee... the 14th green to the 15th tee is a bit like going from the 7th green to the 8th tee, but the time you save carrying makes up for the gains you'd make from green to tee.

Its the distance between 6th green and 7th green which would be a major problem.
Google earth the distance following the existing cart path and you will find with all the twists and turns it is approximately 380 yards.

A few other holes are 130 - 180 yards from green to next tee box.

Some people might say that why don't you just create some short cuts through trees and marsh to make it walkable.
Problem is that it would disturb the protected ecosystem which Trent Jones Design team worked closely on as per following from website:

"Of note is RTJ2's respect for the The Marshes' ecosystem. The natural wetland habitat has been carefully preserved—and cleverly enhanced—and is home to a variety of migratory bird species. The design team worked closely with the Audubon Society to create a golf facility that exceeds the standards set out by the Audubon Co-operative Sanctuary Systems of Canada."

[3Jack]

Its the distance between 6th green and 7th green which would be a major problem.
Google earth the distance following the existing cart path and you will find with all the twists and turns it is approximately 380 yards.

A few other holes are 130 - 180 yards from green to next tee box.

Some people might say that why don't you just create some short cuts through trees and marsh to make it walkable.
Problem is that it would disturb the protected ecosystem which Trent Jones Design team worked closely on as per following from website:

"Of note is RTJ2's respect for the The Marshes' ecosystem. The natural wetland habitat has been carefully preserved—and cleverly enhanced—and is home to a variety of migratory bird species. The design team worked closely with the Audubon Society to create a golf facility that exceeds the standards set out by the Audubon Co-operative Sanctuary Systems of Canada."

Ah yes, it was the 6th and 7th I was referring to... I still don't think that's a problem. Not denying that its 380 yards, but that might take all of three minutes for one to walk. If necessary, put an employee on shuttle duty. They do it at Loch March to retreive customers from the parking lot after all... which is far less than 380 yards. I'm just saying that where there is a will, there is a way.

And as for the ecosystem protection edict, that sounds to me like marketing spin more than anything, after all, they moved millions of metric tonnes of earth to build that course - they've got to throw naturalists a bone! I recall a few years ago there was a tournament there where caddys and players alike had to walk, and the article referenced that the caddies soon found short cuts, both through scrub and by simply bypassing cart path loops that saved them time. Again, where there is a will there is a way. Too bad there seems to be no will... would love to find a walking only facility. I raised a thread a while back telling that it was my win-the-lottery dream to build a course / buy an existing course and make it walking only - again though, with affordances for those unfit to walk. Many discounted the idea vigourously. I was quite pleased to hear that Tiger's new course in NC will be walking only. Who knew!

[jvincent]

Personally, I'd be fine walking it but I'm speedier than your average golfer.

I just did a quick Google earth check of the distance from the 7th green to 8th tee and came up with over 500 yards. I didn't check the others but it adds up.

The Marshes certainly can be walked. When they had the first CPGA event their they had to quickly add yardage markers since the CPGA guys weren't allowed to use carts or GPS.

EDIT: Should have said 6th to 7th. I don't pay much attention to which hole I'm on at the Marshes.

[PEI Golfing]

Ah yes, it was the 6th and 7th I was referring to... I still don't think that's a problem.

Are there any other courses around Ottawa that have a walk of 380 yards between the green and next tee box.............??

[jvincent]

The next worse that I can think of is between the two nines at Stonebridge.

Again, it's a long one because it goes under the road.

Kanata lakes has some bad ones too.

[PEI Golfing]

Personally, I'd be fine walking it but I'm speedier than your average golfer.

I just did a quick Google earth check of the distance from the 7th green to 8th tee and came up with over 500 yards. I didn't check the others but it adds up.

The Marshes certainly can be walked. When they had the first CPGA event their they had to quickly add yardage markers since the CPGA guys weren't allowed to use carts or GPS.

EDIT: Should have said 6th to 7th. I don't pay much attention to which hole I'm on at the Marshes.

See the edit now.......7th to 8th is actually the only hole you do not have to move the cart as the teebox is right beside..........

Yes it is walkable. Seen the young junior players walking in the Nike tournament. Some with bags almost as big as them...............

[3Jack]

Are there any other courses around Ottawa that have a walk of 380 yards between the green and next tee box.............??

Just a sec, going to Google Earth that trek at Greensmere...